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Make ISU 152 great again. Give back the BL10 gun.

ISU 152 BL 10 Restore Fun

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Zylon0 #41 Posted 02 June 2019 - 07:42 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 02 June 2019 - 06:34 PM, said:

It has 750 alpha on tier 8, it really shouldn't, so the pen nerf IMO was generous, taking 50% of the HP of most tier 8 heavies and being able to one shot tier 7 TDs and most tier 6s is just silly alpha for a tier 8.

 

As someone above said, if they weren't going to nerf the alpha to like 600, they should have nerfed the pen to 215-200 like the Borsig has, then given it a more accurate higher pen 130mm with like 550 alpha or something.

 

260 pen for 750 alpha on tier 8 is more than generous. 

 

You do realize 286 pen and 750 dmg was considered normal by WG and the playerbase back then?

It was nerfed for different reasons, but not for its performance.


Edited by Zylon0, 02 June 2019 - 07:45 PM.


barison1 #42 Posted 02 June 2019 - 07:51 PM

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View PostZylon0, on 02 June 2019 - 07:42 PM, said:

 

You do realize 286 pen and 750 dmg was considered normal by WG and the playerbase back then?

It was nerfed for different reasons, but not for its performance.

 

tier 6 facing maus was considered normal aswell back in the days

 

286 pen for 750 alpha was kinda stupid. but lets give all TD ultra high pen to make armor useless right?



Zylon0 #43 Posted 02 June 2019 - 07:54 PM

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View Postbarison1, on 02 June 2019 - 06:51 PM, said:

 

tier 6 facing maus was considered normal aswell back in the days

 

286 pen for 750 alpha was kinda stupid. but lets give all TD ultra high pen to make armor useless right?

 

Keep in mind the BL10 gun was less accurate. it trolled the ISU as hard as it trolled the enemies.

Many shells would not hit the target. Felt like 35-40% of the shells missed. 

 

For me this was part of the fun, as landing a tricky shot or hitting a tank, when it really mattered felt great.

 

Also ISU 152 still had its BL10 gun way past the changed matchmaker to +-2 for years.

 

To me the changes felt the same as if we nerfed the KV2 by making its derp gun more accurate, but lowering its dmg to 350.

It just plays and feels different.

 

Be it a win or a lost battle, i loved my ISU152.


Edited by Zylon0, 02 June 2019 - 08:00 PM.


barison1 #44 Posted 02 June 2019 - 07:59 PM

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View PostZylon0, on 02 June 2019 - 07:54 PM, said:

 

Keep in mind the BL10 gun was less accurate. it trolled the ISU as hard as it trolled the enemies.

Many shells would not hit the target. Felt like 35-40% of the shells missed. 

 

For me this was part of the fun, as landing a tricky shot or hitting a tank, when it really mattered felt great.

 

Also ISU 152 still had its BL10 gun way past, when they changed the matchmaker to +-2 for years.

 

because stupid 750 alpha guns should be utterly accurate daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa comrad, the shitty accuracy is a tradeoff for the utter high alpha. if you wanted (highly) accurate tanks hitting way more shots you should been using things like ferdi/chario etc

Zylon0 #45 Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:01 PM

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View Postbarison1, on 02 June 2019 - 06:59 PM, said:

 

because stupid 750 alpha guns should be utterly accurate daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa comrad, the shitty accuracy is a tradeoff for the utter high alpha. if you wanted (highly) accurate tanks hitting way more shots you should been using things like ferdi/chario etc

 

Your missing the point.. that is not what I said.

I kindly suggest you reread the reply.


Edited by Zylon0, 02 June 2019 - 08:02 PM.


barison1 #46 Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:03 PM

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View PostZylon0, on 02 June 2019 - 08:01 PM, said:

 

Your missing the point.. that is not what I said.

I kindly suggest you reread the reply.

 

give one good reason then why it should have the old pen back, while the current 260 pen is already one of the highest among tier 8 tanks

WindSplitter1 #47 Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:05 PM

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View PostZylon0, on 02 June 2019 - 06:42 PM, said:

 

You do realize 286 pen and 750 dmg was considered normal by WG and the playerbase back then?

It was nerfed for different reasons, but not for its performance.

 

Old Light Tanks were also considered normal by WG and the playerbase.

 

And were likewise nerfed for reasons other than performance: namely HT drivers failing to bear being outplayed by a competent player in a LT.

 

Also 260mm of pen can punch thru any wall in the game frontally + 750HP will lower all heads. If you can't use it, it's your problem.

 

Finally, the ISU lost a mere 26mm of pen but gained HP in return as well, IIRC. I suspect most would take that trade.



Zylon0 #48 Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:09 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 02 June 2019 - 07:05 PM, said:

 

Old Light Tanks were also considered normal by WG and the playerbase.

 

And were likewise nerfed for reasons other than performance: namely HT drivers failing to bear being outplayed by a competent player in a LT.

 

Also 260mm of pen can punch thru any wall in the game frontally + 750HP will lower all heads. If you can't use it, it's your problem.

 

Finally, the ISU lost a mere 26mm of pen but gained HP in return as well, IIRC. I suspect most would take that trade.

 

Hp on a TD is of secondary concern if its not an assault TD.

The whole goal is to support without getting spotted.. failing that you take a shot or 2.

 

I just miss the way the ISU played. It was more fun to me.

Why not give the ISU drivers a choice. Swap to the BL10 that is less accurate, but more pen or keep the current top gun?


Edited by Zylon0, 02 June 2019 - 08:09 PM.


barison1 #49 Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:10 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 02 June 2019 - 08:05 PM, said:

 

Finally, the ISU lost a mere 26mm of pen but gained HP in return as well, IIRC. I suspect most would take that trade.

 

went from 1010 to 1100 hp, not massive increase but still pretty nice as often able to just take 1 hit more reliable

 

 



FataL_ShadowZ #50 Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:10 PM

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View Postbarison1, on 02 June 2019 - 07:59 PM, said:

 

if you wanted (highly) accurate tanks hitting way more shots you should been using things like ferdi/chario etc

Ah yes the charioteer with its crap top gun where its shells more often than not nosedive before aimed targets akin the Skorpion's gun performance.

Not a tank I personally would title accurate.



Dava_117 #51 Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:20 PM

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Really miss the BL-10 on ISU-152. It was historical and it was far from OP. Meanwhile S1 and UDES  sports a 288 pen gun with better accuracy, DPM, shell velocity, softstat, acting like a turret.

There was litteraly no reason to remove it except to appease Steve, that got penned to much in its frontal plate and Kenta the sumo driver that can't stand to get penned by standard ammo.



barison1 #52 Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:24 PM

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View PostFataL_ShadowZ, on 02 June 2019 - 08:10 PM, said:

Ah yes the charioteer with its crap top gun where its shells more often than not nosedive before aimed targets akin the Skorpion's gun performance.

Not a tank I personally would title accurate.

 

no issue myself with hitting shots on chario even when it was pre buff with just 5 gun dep. it has amazing pen and shell velocity, can and will hit quite bunch fast moving tanks. bloom on turretmovement might be bit mhe but the dispersion and aimtime isnt any bad

Frostilicus #53 Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:26 PM

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The muzzle brake on the BL-10 looks awesome too - I kind of miss that brutal look

FataL_ShadowZ #54 Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:28 PM

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View Postbarison1, on 02 June 2019 - 08:24 PM, said:

 

no issue myself with hitting shots on chario even when it was pre buff with just 5 gun dep. it has amazing pen and shell velocity, can and will hit quite bunch fast moving tanks. bloom on turretmovement might be bit mhe but the dispersion and aimtime isnt any bad

 

I'm not alone with my assessment, pretty sure I've read plenty of posts from others with precisely the same view (Skorpion likewise). No disagreement on ACPR etc... though, but too many bad experiences with inaccuracy of the top gun made me glad I sold it after unlocking the Conway.

WindSplitter1 #55 Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:34 PM

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View PostZylon0, on 02 June 2019 - 07:09 PM, said:

 

I just miss the way the ISU played. It was more fun to me.

Why not give the ISU drivers a choice. Swap to the BL10 that is less accurate, but more pen or keep the current top gun?

 

That's the problem.

 

View PostDava_117, on 02 June 2019 - 07:20 PM, said:

Really miss the BL-10 on ISU-152. It was historical and it was far from OP. Meanwhile S1 and UDES  sports a 288 pen gun with better accuracy, DPM, shell velocity, softstat, acting like a turret.

There was litteraly no reason to remove it except to appease Steve, that got penned to much in its frontal plate and Kenta the sumo driver that can't stand to get penned by standard ammo.

 

750HP on Tier VIII is definitely very close to OP. SWE Tier VIII "TDs" have no armour and they certainly do not output 750HP per shot.

 

Plenty of things have been made to appease Steve, but we're discussing one vehicle which is perfectly acceptable. Not an entirely class like LTs, for instance.



Dava_117 #56 Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:45 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 02 June 2019 - 08:34 PM, said:

 

750HP on Tier VIII is definitely very close to OP. SWE Tier VIII "TDs" have no armour and they certainly do not output 750HP per shot.

 

Plenty of things have been made to appease Steve, but we're discussing one vehicle which is perfectly acceptable. Not an entirely class like LTs, for instance.

 

ISU has no armour too. Flat 90mm is far from good at tier 8. Plus it has no turret and bad gun handling. Unlike the Swedish TD it needs to be close to be effective, hence it can't rely much on cammo to survive. The BL-10 was necesary for trading as you have no time to aim in mid to close combat when playing aggressively (as WG seems to suggest too).

They simply took the only feature that the tank had and removed it for 200 HP.



Zylon0 #57 Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:47 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 02 June 2019 - 07:20 PM, said:

Really miss the BL-10 on ISU-152. It was historical and it was far from OP. Meanwhile S1 and UDES  sports a 288 pen gun with better accuracy, DPM, shell velocity, softstat, acting like a turret.

There was litteraly no reason to remove it except to appease Steve, that got penned to much in its frontal plate and Kenta the sumo driver that can't stand to get penned by standard ammo.

 

Exactly. The gun was just more fun to use.
19:48 Added after 0 minutes

View PostFrostilicus, on 02 June 2019 - 07:26 PM, said:

The muzzle brake on the BL-10 looks awesome too - I kind of miss that brutal look

 

Yeah and as long as a street lantern.
19:49 Added after 2 minutes

View PostDava_117, on 02 June 2019 - 07:45 PM, said:

 

ISU has no armour too. Flat 90mm is far from good at tier 8. Plus it has no turret and bad gun handling. Unlike the Swedish TD it needs to be close to be effective, hence it can't rely much on cammo to survive. The BL-10 was necesary for trading as you have no time to aim in mid to close combat when playing aggressively (as WG seems to suggest too).

They simply took the only feature that the tank had and removed it for 200 HP.

 

The known saying back then on the forums, was that the BL10 was the only good thing about the ISU 152.

It felt as iconic as the derp gun on the KV2.



Hyster #58 Posted 02 June 2019 - 09:01 PM

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i ground this line the same time as a friend, he used AP, i used HE.

i consistently did 1000 dmg per game more than him.

not to mention all the module / crew dmg

 

i love derp guns !!



Zylon0 #59 Posted 02 June 2019 - 09:03 PM

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View PostHyster, on 02 June 2019 - 08:01 PM, said:

i ground this line the same time as a friend, he used AP, i used HE.

i consistently did 1000 dmg per game more than him.

not to mention all the module / crew dmg

 

i love derp guns !!

 

Interesting, but you'll see no benefit from a bl10 then ;)

Then again.. i do not remember the pen on the HE shells.


Edited by Zylon0, 02 June 2019 - 09:11 PM.


FataL_ShadowZ #60 Posted 02 June 2019 - 09:20 PM

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I've no idea what the ISU 152 was like originally but I did complete its grind recently. Overall it was quite disappointing, very rarely did it give the damage output of its reputed history. I recall it being quite effective at dealing with Defenders and yet many times even with ACPR loaded it didn't penetrate some 'certain pen' shots on low-medium armoured tanks leaving me entirely confused. Its also not a pleasant experience playing this tank on FL with its terrible traverse speed and narrow gun arc. I wouldn't have any issue with the top gun being changed back as I find other aspects of the game bring more of a negative experience (primarily italian autoloaders and to some extents WV's) however I will admit that what I find negative is just my own biased viewpoint as a result of the tanks I play.

 

Just my £0.02






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