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Is it finally time to change 120mm alpha to 440?


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MrEdweird #1 Posted 03 June 2019 - 03:53 AM

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Now that we have swedish meds with 120mm guns that do more damage, and 105mm guns that do 420, I think it's high time that most if not all 120mm guns get the 440 alpha change. This was tested years ago now but was not implemented for whatever reason. Wargaming themselves said that it is unreasonable to have 40 more alpha for 2mm wider shell caliber, so why they didn't do it is beyond me.

 

This holds especially true now that two of the tanks that use essentially the same 120mm gun - the T110E5 and the FV215b (which needs other changes, too) have been relegated to worst tier X tanks by winrate. These tanks rely on exposure and in the case of the FV215b especially, don't have the armor to do so safely quite often. Keeping the DPM the same but increasing the alpha seems reasonable to me.

 

Any reasons you can think of that would make this a bad idea?



XxKuzkina_MatxX #2 Posted 03 June 2019 - 04:09 AM

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No i don't think that's a bad idea at all but i don't think that 40 alpha is what's keeping these two tanks at the bottom of the winrate list. Sure it will help a bit but that's just a band aid. One reservation on increasing the alpha is losing some of the gun handling in the balancing process. Personally, i'd rather have 400 alpha with the current gun handling (or better) than having the extra 40.

 

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Balc0ra #3 Posted 03 June 2019 - 06:12 AM

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On the S.Conq etc. I would say no. As 440 alpha on him would be a tad too strong, even if he got a ROF nerf etc. On the FV215b I would def say yes. As he as nothing else to work with vs those other guns and the platform they are on. 

vomalios #4 Posted 03 June 2019 - 06:21 AM

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Buffing alpha for E5 won't do enough to make it competetive again. It needs a total buff, same for 215b. They're just old and need some love from WG.

Cobra6 #5 Posted 03 June 2019 - 07:24 AM

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View Postvomalios, on 03 June 2019 - 05:21 AM, said:

Buffing alpha for E5 won't do enough to make it competetive again. It needs a total buff, same for 215b. They're just old and need some love from WG.

 

How about, instead of perpetually buffing everything all the time we bring the top performers down to the T110E5/FV215 level and actually properly balance the game again.

 

If you keep buffing everything you'll just add more and more to the power creep and you will *NEVER* manage to properly balance your game.

 

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Balc0ra #6 Posted 03 June 2019 - 08:22 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 03 June 2019 - 07:24 AM, said:

 

How about, instead of perpetually buffing everything all the time we bring the top performers down to the T110E5/FV215 level and actually properly balance the game again.

 

If you keep buffing everything you'll just add more and more to the power creep and you will *NEVER* manage to properly balance your game.

 

Cobra 6

 

Tho you would get less balance issues, it would not eliminate every issue in terms of balance if you dragged everything down vs up to the new levels all the time. Instead they should focus on the new stuff they add. And not balance them on their own, but vs what's already there. Then you would get a better hold on the power creep.

Japualtah #7 Posted 03 June 2019 - 08:59 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 03 June 2019 - 07:24 AM, said:

 

How about, instead of perpetually buffing everything all the time we bring the top performers down to the T110E5/FV215 level and actually properly balance the game again.

 

True, but they would better shut the servers down immediately.

Players will never accept a real re-balancing, only buffs keep players playing.

Sad, but it's the way it is.

 

Look at the Type5: nobody's playing it anymore.

Do the same to 20 tanks in a same patch and it's game over.



Stevies_Team #8 Posted 03 June 2019 - 10:05 AM

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Look at the Type5: nobody's playing it anymore

 

Right enough, I used to see quite a few

Never see them now



Cobra6 #9 Posted 03 June 2019 - 11:44 AM

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View PostJapualtah, on 03 June 2019 - 07:59 AM, said:

 

True, but they would better shut the servers down immediately.

Players will never accept a real re-balancing, only buffs keep players playing.

Sad, but it's the way it is.

 

Look at the Type5: nobody's playing it anymore.

Do the same to 20 tanks in a same patch and it's game over.

 

Funny that you'd say that as I do remember WoT back in 2012 as a much better balanced game, not only because there were less tanks but also because tanks were roughly similar but they stood out in key areas: 

- Germans had accurate long range guns and the highest penetration.

- Russians had armor but potato guns that could never sniper.

- US has DPM, gun depression and turret armour.

 

This was a great way of balancing and made sure that Russians for instance could not snipe like they can now making Germans pretty much obsolete. etc.

 

Regardless, there will be a slight dip in short term players probably as all the kids can't have their OP toys anymore but in the long run a better balanced game will attract more players, and stay alive longer, then one that is constantly trying to up itself one step.

 

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MrEdweird #10 Posted 03 June 2019 - 11:46 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 03 June 2019 - 06:24 AM, said:

 

How about, instead of perpetually buffing everything all the time we bring the top performers down to the T110E5/FV215 level and actually properly balance the game again.

 

If you keep buffing everything you'll just add more and more to the power creep and you will *NEVER* manage to properly balance your game.

 

Cobra 6

 

I agree.

But it won't happen, so what's the point of thinking about it, have to be realisitc with these things.

The FV for example has needed changes for so long, it's practically from a different game.

Still waiting for WG to remove the stupid side weakspot, give it 40 ammo, some more reverse speed etc.



Cro006 #11 Posted 03 June 2019 - 10:02 PM

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Some 120mm guns could use 440 alpha, some would be OP with it. I'd love to see T34 with 440 alpha, and few other tanks... but as people before said - this game doesn't need constant buffs, it needs nerfs to OP tanks ;)

ValkyrionX #12 Posted 04 June 2019 - 01:24 AM

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#no

ExclamationMark #13 Posted 04 June 2019 - 01:42 AM

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No.

WG has just recently started doing this already, do it for all 120mm guns and it removes the variety they are trying to add.



Strizi #14 Posted 04 June 2019 - 02:09 AM

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No. They should reduce the alpha of some 120mm tanks back to 400 instead. Bigger alpha is simply not good for the game.

ExclamationMark #15 Posted 04 June 2019 - 02:44 AM

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View PostStrizi, on 04 June 2019 - 02:09 AM, said:

No. They should reduce the alpha of some 120mm tanks back to 400 instead. Bigger alpha is simply not good for the game.

 

You seriously think that 440 alpha is high?

And what, 400 is just fine then?



Shacou #16 Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:22 AM

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give 121 and WZ-120 490 alpha then

 



Strizi #17 Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:51 AM

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View PostExclamationMark, on 04 June 2019 - 02:44 AM, said:

 

You seriously think that 440 alpha is high?

And what, 400 is just fine then?

 

No its a general statement. I dont think its good to always buff buff buff (especially hightier tanks) and give here some alpha and there some alpha. 440 is not that high in general to answer your question but still no need to buff any 120mm guns alpha.

vomalios #18 Posted 04 June 2019 - 08:34 AM

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View PostStrizi, on 04 June 2019 - 04:51 AM, said:

 

No its a general statement. I dont think its good to always buff buff buff (especially hightier tanks) and give here some alpha and there some alpha. 440 is not that high in general to answer your question but still no need to buff any 120mm guns alpha.

 

And why exactly? Why 15mm more of girth should equal to 10 (!) more dmg? 15mm between 90 and 105mm equals to 150 DMG!

Strizi #19 Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:19 PM

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View Postvomalios, on 04 June 2019 - 08:34 AM, said:

 

And why exactly? Why 15mm more of girth should equal to 10 (!) more dmg? 15mm between 90 and 105mm equals to 150 DMG!

 

They could rebalance all the alpha in the game. But wouldnt also shell velocity influence the dmg to a target?

vomalios #20 Posted 05 June 2019 - 06:37 AM

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View PostStrizi, on 04 June 2019 - 05:19 PM, said:

 

They could rebalance all the alpha in the game. But wouldnt also shell velocity influence the dmg to a target?

 

It probably would. The whole "DMG" system is outdated anyway. No way to balance it correctly, especially when same caliber guns have different alphas.




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