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D Day commemoration

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Stevies_Team #21 Posted 03 June 2019 - 08:44 PM

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So any metal ore that was underground when they tested is also worth a fortune?

(sorry if you actually meant what you said as a joke)

 

No

All new metal from ore contains minute traces of radioactivity from the atom bombs in the 40s and 50s

This contamination interferes with sensitive (outer space) detection equipment

 

Old metal from say the German grand fleet has none of these contaminants and is very valuable for instruments for scientific work

 

https://en.wikipedia...t_at_Scapa_Flow

 

Any metal smelted and poured before the atom bombs went off does not contain higher levels of radioactive contamination, this makes it more valuable/useful

 

https://en.wikipedia...ackground_steel


Edited by If_I_Die_You_Die_Too, 03 June 2019 - 08:59 PM.


Schepel #22 Posted 03 June 2019 - 09:07 PM

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View Postwiggles, on 03 June 2019 - 08:37 PM, said:

 

So any metal ore that was underground when they tested is also worth a fortune? (sorry if you actually meant what you said as a joke)

 

Nope, I didn't joke. Dutch navy vessels, classed as war graves, 'disappeared' for this very reason. https://www.theguard...-ww2-shipwrecks

 

From this article:

 

Archeologists believe the criminals might be turning a profit because the hulls are one of the world’s few remaining deposits of “low-background” metals. Having been made before atomic bomb explosions in 1945 and subsequent nuclear tests, the steel is free of radiation. This makes even small quantities that have survived the saltwater extremely useful for finely calibrated instruments such as Geiger counters, space sensors and medical imaging.

 

Some ancient ships, often centuries-old Roman vessels in European waters, have also been salvaged for their lead, which is also low-radiation and is used in nuclear power stations.


Edited by Schepel, 03 June 2019 - 09:12 PM.


Fedeita89 #23 Posted 03 June 2019 - 09:42 PM

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that's an E100

SnowRelic #24 Posted 03 June 2019 - 10:04 PM

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Name it? If it were up to the British chances are they'd stick something like Tanky McTankface to it.

Fizzymagic #25 Posted 04 June 2019 - 08:47 AM

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View PostDorander, on 03 June 2019 - 05:30 PM, said:

 

Why would you think this is somehow specific or unique to China?

 

 

It's surprising what some people would pay for a completely useless piece of someone or something as long as it has a good story behind it :rolleyes:. I'm not sure what the purpose of or method for protecting this thing will be but you'd generally not want people to start playing under water with a few tons of rusted steel carrying explosives, or trying to dismantle it for souvenirs, vandalizing the thing for whatever reason... the best thing is to either raise it and process it safely (whether that's dismantling or museum) or leave it be.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-warships-plundered-scrap-metal-chinese-pirates-second-world-war-a8498026.html

 

Not quite tanks but you get the point.



wiggles #26 Posted 04 June 2019 - 02:23 PM

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View PostSchepel, on 03 June 2019 - 08:07 PM, said:

 

Nope, I didn't joke. Dutch navy vessels, classed as war graves, 'disappeared' for this very reason. https://www.theguard...-ww2-shipwrecks

 

From this article:

 

Archeologists believe the criminals might be turning a profit because the hulls are one of the world’s few remaining deposits of “low-background” metals. Having been made before atomic bomb explosions in 1945 and subsequent nuclear tests, the steel is free of radiation. This makes even small quantities that have survived the saltwater extremely useful for finely calibrated instruments such as Geiger counters, space sensors and medical imaging.

 

Some ancient ships, often centuries-old Roman vessels in European waters, have also been salvaged for their lead, which is also low-radiation and is used in nuclear power stations.

 

It's still very obviously utter tosh.

Schepel #27 Posted 04 June 2019 - 06:24 PM

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View Postwiggles, on 04 June 2019 - 02:23 PM, said:

 

It's still very obviously utter tosh.

 

Just out of curiosity, did you read the article? Did you bother to check the references?

 

Because the only thing obviously utter tosh is your statement.



Dorander #28 Posted 04 June 2019 - 10:42 PM

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View PostSchepel, on 03 June 2019 - 08:07 PM, said:

 

Nope, I didn't joke. Dutch navy vessels, classed as war graves, 'disappeared' for this very reason. https://www.theguard...-ww2-shipwrecks

 

From this article:

 

Archeologists believe the criminals might be turning a profit because the hulls are one of the world’s few remaining deposits of “low-background” metals. Having been made before atomic bomb explosions in 1945 and subsequent nuclear tests, the steel is free of radiation. This makes even small quantities that have survived the saltwater extremely useful for finely calibrated instruments such as Geiger counters, space sensors and medical imaging.

 

Some ancient ships, often centuries-old Roman vessels in European waters, have also been salvaged for their lead, which is also low-radiation and is used in nuclear power stations.

 

Cool, actually learned something new from this thread.

 

View Postwiggles, on 04 June 2019 - 01:23 PM, said:

 

It's still very obviously utter tosh.

 

The wikipedia article gives a brief but clear explanation: https://en.wikipedia...ackground_steel
21:43 Added after 1 minute

View PostFizzymagic, on 04 June 2019 - 07:47 AM, said:

 

I didn't ask whether it happened in or near China, I asked why it was supposedly unique or specific to the Chinese. Having an example doesn't prove uniqueness.

Danger__UXB #29 Posted 04 June 2019 - 11:50 PM

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Long story short;...

 

I used to go scuba diving on alot of the shipwrecks in the English channel from Littlehampton ...and moslty the 'Liberty ships' and sunken pontoons from the D-Day landings that got sunk en-route.

 

..Divers work by the '50' rule ie; if the water depth is 10m then you have 40 mins there (10 + 40 = 50).....or 20m deep you have 30 mins there ( 20 + 30 = 50 )....the 50 rule is there to ensure we never had to do decompression stops to prevent

narcosis (The Benz) ...so needless to say most of the divers on the south coast of the UK kept the dives shallow to increase 'Bottom time' (Time on the sea floor/Shipwreck)...after all it was alot of prep for a small amount of dive time if you 

chose to do it that way?..

 

I went out on a wreck once that took 3 hours to get there by boat and was a 32m dive ...so only 18mins bottom time (Time on the wreck) so needless to say it was not popular with divers...and as such was relatively untouched..

 

There was cases of Howitzer rounds untouched (Dozens) in the aft of the ship which when i picked up literally crumbled due to the middle cast iron section falling apart.....i ended up with the firing cap which was soilid brass and the percussion cap which to this day is still 'Live' and full of TNT with the date '1942' on it...the middle section was cast iron hence the corrosion (Shrapnel)...yes i still have it in my workshop at home.

 

There are so many gems out there in the English channel still and so many of them untouched...at least they are now getting some protection.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Danger__UXB, 05 June 2019 - 11:51 AM.


Dorander #30 Posted 04 June 2019 - 11:53 PM

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View PostDanger__UXB, on 04 June 2019 - 10:50 PM, said:

 

There was cases of Howitzer rounds untouched (Dozens) in the aft of the ship which when i picked up literally crumbled due to the middle cast iron section falling apart.....i ended up with the firing cap which was soilid brass and the pecussion cap which to this day is still 'Live' and full of TNT with the date '1942' on it...the middle section was cast iron hence the corrosion (Shrapnel)...yes i still have it in my workshop at home.

 

 

Your name suddenly makes a lot more sense... :ohmy:



Laur_Balaur_XD #31 Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:08 AM

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View PostDanger__UXB, on 04 June 2019 - 10:50 PM, said:

 

There are so many gems out there in the English channel still and so many of them untouched...at least they are now getting some protection.

 

 

What i don't understand is how exactly is the UK government 'protect' those things? They can't even protect their commercial ships from somali pirates...



Danger__UXB #32 Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:10 AM

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View PostLaur_Balaur_XD, on 04 June 2019 - 11:08 PM, said:

 

What i don't understand is how exactly is the UK government 'protect' those things? They can't even protect their commercial ships from somali pirates...

 

Because people died on them....they are classed as war graves.

 

..Its not right to steal from a grave.

 


Edited by Danger__UXB, 05 June 2019 - 12:11 AM.


Laur_Balaur_XD #33 Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:24 AM

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View PostDanger__UXB, on 04 June 2019 - 11:10 PM, said:

 

Because people died on them....they are classed as war graves.

 

..Its not right to steal from a grave.

 

 

Ehmmm, i asked how is going the UK government to protect those things? Not why.

Schepel #34 Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:46 AM

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View PostLaur_Balaur_XD, on 05 June 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

 

Ehmmm, i asked how is going the UK government to protect those things? Not why.

 

Short answer: they can't.

 

Long answer: get caught, and they have a justification for making your life hell.



GustyOWindflap #35 Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:56 AM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 03 June 2019 - 04:40 PM, said:

This is a picture of a tank that has just been protected by the UK government as part of measures on the 75th anniversary to commemorate D Day.

(name the tank)

 

Surely it's an arty. :harp:

Danger__UXB #36 Posted 05 June 2019 - 11:04 AM

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View PostLaur_Balaur_XD, on 04 June 2019 - 11:24 PM, said:

 

Ehmmm, i asked how is going the UK government to protect those things? Not why.

 

They will be protected against companys trying to salavage the wreck or the goods on them by denying them the appropriate paperwork to proceed....this will be done by the local authorities.

 

For divers to get there mostly they will have to charter local dive boats in which case the captain will be aware of the protection order placed on them....and if he doesnt instill it into the divers not to touch or pilfer the

wreck he may lose his licence.

 

On a side note ; I have dove on coral reefs in the Red sea which had protection orders on them so you were not even allowed to place your hand on them.. or else you will kill the coral.

 

Most of the time when people are aware of a protection order against a wreck or indeed coral you will find that Captains,Seamen and Divers alike would not even question it and just adhere to it... mostly out of either

respect for the environment or in this case respect for the fallen.:honoring:



Eviscerador #37 Posted 05 June 2019 - 11:42 AM

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View PostLaur_Balaur_XD, on 03 June 2019 - 05:44 PM, said:

 

I don't think that lifting up a tank from the bottom of the sea just to sell it for scrap would bring any kind of profit.

 

Except if it is steel from before any nuclear test contaminated our atmosphere with radiactive isotopes.

 

There is a very profitable market for those metals who are reforged to use in precision lab instruments, geigers and radiotherapy stuff for hospitals.

 

The main resource of that kind of metal are sunken wrecks from WW1 and WW2 battleships. That's the reason the Prince of Wales and the Renown were scrapped illegally not that many years ago.



hmrc #38 Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:12 PM

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View PostDorander, on 04 June 2019 - 10:42 PM, said:

 

Cool, actually learned something new from this thread.

 

 

The wikipedia article gives a brief but clear explanation: https://en.wikipedia...ackground_steel
21:43 Added after 1 minute

 

I didn't ask whether it happened in or near China, I asked why it was supposedly unique or specific to the Chinese. Having an example doesn't prove uniqueness.

 

I think it was one of those facts that was in the back of mind but it was only when it was mentioned directly that I thought I think I’ve heard it somewhere else.




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