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Premium Ammo Rebalance

Sandbox Premium shells Rebalance

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XxKuzkina_MatxX #1 Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:46 PM

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One of the most boring articles i've ever read but here are what it says:

 

  • All tanks' HP will be increased between 15% and 30% according to how much armor do they have.
  • The average damage with standard shells will be increased. For example the 90mm guns doing 240 damage will now do 315 (+31.25%). The 105mm guns doing 390 will be doing 525 (+34.62%). 155mm guns currently doing 750 will be doing 1050 damage, ain't that grand?
  • HE will also receive a buff in damage by approximately 22%.

 

Main idea: Aim and thou shalt receive!

 

RU article: https://worldoftanks...-ammo-revision/

 

EU article: https://worldoftanks...-ammo-revision/


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 04 June 2019 - 04:12 PM.


gunslingerXXX #2 Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:51 PM

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Wow. 

_6i6_ #3 Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:52 PM

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and for when is this planned? any dates given?>

ExclamationMark #4 Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:52 PM

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Adding more 1k+ alpha guns to the game. What a fantastic idea. :facepalm:

tajj7 #5 Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:53 PM

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So yeh the Leo 1 gets a nerf effectively because alpha is going up over 30% but its only getting a 29% increase in HP, so basically paper tanks are going to lose out and tanks that you can't pen with standard ammo, a la Maus and Type 5, this is actually a buff because the Maus for example will have over 3500 health against premium ammo, and whilst most standard ammo is going to do more damage, you can't pen it frontally with standard ammo unless you have like 300 pen, so against most tier 10s a tank like the Maus effectively is buffed.

 

And why the hell are bigger guns getting a bigger % of increase, that makes no sense. 

 

And more HE spam, great........

 

Right now a Leo will have 1850 HP after 1.51, with this change it'll have 2,386 hit points, but Grille 15 will be doing 1060 damage against it. So currently it can take (on average rolls) two hits from a Grille 15 and be left with 350 health.

 

After this change, two Grille hits and it'll be left with 260 hit points, plus a 1060 alpha gun is going to be able to roll higher, up to over 1300, so more RNG for the win. 

 

 


Edited by tajj7, 04 June 2019 - 03:58 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #6 Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:54 PM

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View Post_6i6_, on 04 June 2019 - 06:52 PM, said:

and for when is this planned? any dates given?>

 

From 4 to 10 June there will be a sandbox server to test this new changes. :great:

 

https://worldoftanks...x-announcement/



Dava_117 #7 Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:55 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 04 June 2019 - 03:46 PM, said:

One of the most boring articles i've ever read but here are what it says:

 

  • All tanks' HP will be increased between 15% and 30% according to how much armor do they have.
  • The average damage with standard shells will be increased. For example the 90mm guns doing 240 damage will now do 315 (+31.25%). The 105mm guns doing 390 will be doing 525 (+34.62%). 155mm guns currently doing 750 will be doing 1050 damage, ain't that grand?
  • HE will also receive a buff in damage by approximately 22%.

 

Main idea: Aim and thou shalt receive!

 

RU article: https://worldoftanks...-ammo-revision/

 

That sounds a lot like: we can't nerf premium tank premium ammo so we will buff everything else...

:)



XxKuzkina_MatxX #8 Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:58 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 04 June 2019 - 06:55 PM, said:

That sounds a lot like: we can't nerf premium tank premium ammo so we will buff everything else...

:)

 

Exactly with a touch of class warfare! :)

Dava_117 #9 Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:58 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 04 June 2019 - 03:53 PM, said:

And more HE spam, great........

 

That is actually a really problematic point. If they just increase HE alpha without touching the 1.1 armour coeff. in the HE damage formula a lot more gun will have the derp potential...

 

That 1.1 should became at least 1.4 to compensate


Edited by Dava_117, 04 June 2019 - 03:59 PM.


tajj7 #10 Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:02 PM

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If anything this should be used as a chance to reduce HE spam and reduce high alpha. 

 

Instead of buffing big guns by 40%, leave them as they are, and give them better gun handling and up their rate of fires.

 

Does this also mean that the 183's standard AP shells are going to do 1,625 base damage? 



Dr_Oolen #11 Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:05 PM

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LMAO. I dont need to test any of this to know already its completely retarded and even worse than the initial nerf to gold alpha would have been...

 

Compared to just the gold alpha nerf this actually manages to comparatively [edited]over unarmored tanks even more...

 

*edited*  

 

At first i was like "nice, rebalancing HP in favor of unarmored tanks will help mitigate any retarded changes to alpha/penetration". Then i read the part about alpha increase that scales with alpha and that this alpha increase is bigger than the HP increase and i had to facepalm... instantly making the HP buff irrelevant and instantly directly nerfing paper tanks...  *edited*  

 

 

EDIT: all they had to do was buff the HP of paper tanks by significantly more than they buff the alpha... and then not buff the alpha so much... maybe something like +20-30% alpha buff, +60% HP buff to the most paper tanks and +0% buff to the most armored tanks... then it would be a fairly good solution...

 

Edit2: more correctly this would be an improvement (but reworking all armor and all penetrations individually would be by far thr best solution): buff hp on most armored tanks by 15%, on least armored tanks by 60%; and then tie the alpha buffs to the paperness/alpha of the tanks too (more paper more alpha buff, more alpha less alpha buff)... so buff alpha on lowest alpha guns and most paper tanks by 40%, buff alpha on highest alpha guns and most armored tanks by 10%... +-, then this way of "solving" gold spam would be acceptable and an improvement over what we have now


Edited by Jahpero, 04 June 2019 - 05:18 PM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.


gunslingerXXX #12 Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:06 PM

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And again a problem is not solved but rather the symptoms are treated. The game is way to large and complex for these big changes to work imo. If the problem is that there is too much gold spam, why not chose a simple solution such as limit the amount of gold ammo?

I feel a 'Louis van Gaal' quote incoming but I shall remain silent...



Unforgiving_Destiny #13 Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:06 PM

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are you surprised that [edited]at wargaming buffed T92 to 1600 damage ?

XxKuzkina_MatxX #14 Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:08 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 04 June 2019 - 07:02 PM, said:

If anything this should be used as a chance to reduce HE spam and reduce high alpha. 

 

Instead of buffing big guns by 40%, leave them as they are, and give them better gun handling and up their rate of fires.

 

Does this also mean that the 183's standard AP shells are going to do 1,625 base damage? 

 

Yep, the death star always needed an alpha buff! :teethhappy:

gunslingerXXX #15 Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:14 PM

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I hoped to be unaffected by the changes as I hardly fire gold and don't drive armoured tanks a lot anyway. But will this change result in.more focus fire towards lightly armoured tanks? Basically not only arty but all classes will now target the paper tanks? 

That would suck bigtime.



tajj7 #16 Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:14 PM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 04 June 2019 - 03:05 PM, said:

LMAO. I dont need to test any of this to know already its completely retarded and even worse than the initial nerf to gold alpha would have been...

 

Compared to just the gold alpha nerf this actually manages to comparatively [edited]over unarmored tanks even more...

 

*edited*  

 

At first i was like "nice, rebalancing HP in favor of unarmored tanks will help mitigate any retarded changes to alpha/penetration". Then i read the part about alpha increase that scales with alpha and that this alpha increase is bigger than the HP increase and i had to facepalm... instantly making the HP buff irrelevant and instantly directly nerfing paper tanks...  *edited*  

 

I kind of get the concept, but man they have gone about it a stupid way.

 

So like Bat Chat faces Maus with 3500 HP, Bat Chat now has what like 2100 HP?, Bat Chats 268 pen standard rounds are like 40% on certain spots on Maus, at best probably, basically standard rounds are not going to reliably pen.

 

Meanwhile, Maus with its 3,500 HP can use its 650 alpha gun now, so can get like 700 rolls on a tank is basically auto-pens. 

 

That relationship is a clear a and massive buff for the armoured tanks, they are getting HP buffs AND because most of them have bigger alpha, they are getting the better end of the alpha buff deal AND because of their armour being very strong against standard ammo, they will be harder to kill than before, whilst they will be able to kill anything paper even quicker. 

 

Its just a straight up buff to heavies and armoured TDs, whilst being a complete FU to anything lightly armoured with a small calibre gun.

 

Have fun in your tier 8 medium doing 240 damage to the side of a Maus or Type 5 because your crappy 190 pen AP shells bounce all the time, only take you like 2 minutes to kill it, whilst it turns round and two shots you in 10s because it has 650 alpha now. :facepalm:



Celution #17 Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:15 PM

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This doesn't accomplish ANYTHING over than the previous iteration (where premium ammo damage was reduced).

 

The problem remains that being bottom tier you're forced to fire premium shells to have a reliable chance against overly armored higher tiers. In this iteration, with the increased hitpoints it still means you'll be fighting higher tiers at a reduced DPM potential relative to them firing regular ammo at you at maximum DPM potential.

 

Another huge issue is that making such huge changes to alpha damage and hitpoints across the board severely alienates the game from its long-term players. The game will feel entirely different because of these changes, Years of knowledge and baked in damage numbers will be thrown out of the window in an instant, meaning players have to relearn everything with regards to suriviability and how hard your gun hits vs potential incoming fire.

 

In my mind, the only way of improving the situation and gold spam issue is fixing each and every individual armor layout across the board, implementing weakspots that are EASILY penetrated by nearly any regular ammo it can face. By doing this, The absurdly high penetration numbers of of many premium rounds can then be reduced effectively.

 

Furthermore, there are plenty of tanks that must be fixed individually that have "broken" ammo (e.g. the classic T-54 being nearly useless with 201 mm pen but having infinite capabilities with 330 mm HEAT). Additionally, there should be a significant downside for using premium shells over default shells, especially with regards to APCR vs AP (Since HEAT has some downsides already).
 

TL;DR;

The true issue is that standard ammo is unable to contest armor well enough in many situations, and with that premium shells being way too effective, effectively making even the strongest parts of the tank easily penetrable.

 

I think premium rounds should make it easier to penetrate tanks in some areas while having downsides. True downsides could be stuff like lower normalization, more drop-off, worse accuracy, lower shell velocity, not going through spaced armor/tracks (HEAT), etc.

 

Premium shells should not have the "I can just hit center mass now and pen it anywhere" effect like it does in many situations right now. 


Edited by Celution, 04 June 2019 - 04:18 PM.


Trostani #18 Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:27 PM

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Few my thoughts:

- % buffs will make even higher discrapency in +2 tier matches

- buffing HPs after some time significantly affects WN8 expected values, a lot of 'wannabe unicum' will cry :trollface:

- I really like that they find a way to legal nerf to premium tanks. For all crybabies WG should keep premium tank as it is now and adjust only tech tree and special vehicles.

 



UrQuan #19 Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:28 PM

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The concept is okay I find, buff standard ammo damage & buff the HP of tanks. The buffed HE damage I can't really condone tho, because of above-mentioned. HE is already very powerful against non-armored tanks, no need to make it even stronger.

But they seem to go about the concept a bit wrong, as commented above & comes down to 'buff the armored tanks' Increasing the HP more then damage would give way to a more ehatlhy playstyle. For tanks who already had high alpha damage, making their gun stats less derpy would been a great bonus (or adjusting their pen values, some of the newer big guns tend to have a standard & prem shell that are very close to each other in stats, with the prem shell costing significantly more)



tajj7 #20 Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:29 PM

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The alpha buffs need to be tied in with the armour consideration they are making, not bigger guns get more of a % increase.

 

Giving a Grille 15 40% more alpha, I can get, because it will have to face increased alpha standard ammo or increase alpha HE coming back it. 

 

Giving a Bobject  40% more alpha, is completely stupid, because it will either bounce more (because more standard ammo is fired at it), or it has more HP, because premium ammo is fired at it, meaning either way, it is getting a survivability buff, so giving it an alpha buff AS WELL, is just dumb.

 

If your tank has armour, you get the lower end of the alpha buff, because you are getting a survivability buff. 

If your tank has no armour, you get the higher end of the alpha buff, because your survivability is unchanged and its harder to fight armoured stuff now with their HP buff. 







Also tagged with Sandbox, Premium shells, Rebalance

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