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Premium Ammo Rebalance

Sandbox Premium shells Rebalance

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Banelord #61 Posted 04 June 2019 - 07:06 PM

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I dont get the way WG handles this.

I played WoT Blitz for a while. I really liked the balance there. Top tier Dmg is nerfed by about 10-20% and Heat / APRC damage is nerfed for additional 15%. 

So 750 Guns in Wot have in Blitz ~600 Dmg and gold rounds are at ~500 dmg.

 

So the time to kill is way lower. Engagements take longer and you can take more risks.

 

*scratches my head in disbelief*



fwhaatpiraat #62 Posted 04 June 2019 - 07:10 PM

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View PostgunslingerXXX, on 04 June 2019 - 04:06 PM, said:

And again a problem is not solved but rather the symptoms are treated. The game is way to large and complex for these big changes to work imo. If the problem is that there is too much gold spam, why not chose a simple solution such as limit the amount of gold ammo?

I feel a 'Louis van Gaal' quote incoming but I shall remain silent...

Because that makes the already really strong armored tanks even stronger, while weakly armored tanks become weaker.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #63 Posted 04 June 2019 - 07:13 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 04 June 2019 - 10:04 PM, said:

I looked at the medium tank rebalance news item on there, LOADS of complaints about the 430 and 430U nerf, what happens? Those nerfs get cancelled, so no I don;t have much hope. 

 

Well if you actually looked closely and understood what was going on then the main reason of complaints was the meaningless nerf to DPM and gun handling. How was that supposed to balance those tanks?

 

You yourself said back then that those changes were irrelevant without touching the armor or the stock grind for the 430. Also let's not forget that RU was fierce about the Leo 1 buffs and those counter nerfs!



gunslingerXXX #64 Posted 04 June 2019 - 07:21 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 04 June 2019 - 07:10 PM, said:

Because that makes the already really strong armored tanks even stronger, while weakly armored tanks become weaker.

Not necessarily. It forces players to chose which tank to fire their gold rounds on. Maus and Type 5 will likely keep getting gold spammed, which is fine because they are balanced for it. Medium armoured tanks will receive a lot less gold spam which gives them a chance to use the little armour. Paper tanks are unaffected, which is fine because the gold spam doesn't affect them anyway.

Only difficulty is how much is reasonoble and should it be a constant amount or should it be flexible depending on team composition (7 heavies/sidd or only 1...)

 



leggasiini #65 Posted 04 June 2019 - 07:46 PM

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My impressions? First and foremost, buffing HP and alpha is just overly complicated. They'd achieve mostly the same by just reducing premium ammo alpha, while being much simpler change as whole. You can balance HP pools, armor etc. on super-heavies and other very heavily armored tanks, depending how you want to do it (I'd personally just go with armor nerfs/weakspots rather than HP nerfs), just test the premium ammo nerfs first and balance the tanks accordingly. The only reason why they are even going such a complicated route is simply the concept of "oh we cant nerf premium tanks so we buff everything instead". It's not a nerf if it's a global rebalance. Premium tanks getting worse premium shell damage doesn't matter because everything else would get it do. If you really want to nerf premium ammo, just do it like that - just as WG originally planned.

 

What I find extremely stupid is how high-alpha guns gets bigger increase to their alpha, like what, why the hell??? If anything, low alpha guns should get a bigger boost, not high alpha guns, but IMO it would be the best if they gave all the guns same alpha increase. If a 320 alpha gun gets a 30% damage boost, 750 alpha gun also gets 30% damage boost, etc. The fact different guns gets different increases to their alpha damage is the dumbest thing there and just messes up the balance even more for no good reason.

 

Also as a small nitpicky extra, personally I find HP pool changes and alpha changes etc. really confusing, it's basically re-learning all the numbers that have been stuck in my head for years. That being said, tier 1-6 HP buffs are still a great thing, it was noticeable even with alpha increase (they increased the HP pools so that even with the higher alpha they are still a lot higher than on live server).

 

Just scrap this whole HP/damage buff shenanigans and just reduce the alpha damage of premium shells like originally proposed. However, even then, the game needs some serious balance adjustments to heavily armored tanks (especially at tier 10), as even in a simpler form it's still a clear buff to heavily armored tanks, already the strongest type of the tanks in the game.

 

Just bring back proper weakspots.



spuff #66 Posted 04 June 2019 - 08:06 PM

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Bring back weak spots for sure. The game was so much better then.

I still think rebalancing all of the different shell  types to have different pros and cons so they all have their use in differing situations. Let every type of shell be available to every tank and let the player choose 2 or 3 different types to take in to battle depending on how they want to play the tank.

Kolmiopaavo #67 Posted 04 June 2019 - 08:15 PM

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Since the game has been balanced around existence of gold ammo for such a long time its worrying to be said at least seeing such a massive change being tested, even if in sandbox. Unless done perfectly (and knowing WGs record for the last few years, it seems very unlikely), this change would throw all the balancing done in all those years into trashcan in a blink of an eye, possibly even making the gameplay near-unplayable for a while in worst case scenario. There are hunderds of tanks in the game and each and every one of them would need to be balanced and fine tuned again which is massive task and takes a lot of time.

 

Obviously the situation we have right now is far from ideal but Im not sure if this is the correct way to tackle the problem.


Edited by Kolmiopaavo, 04 June 2019 - 09:41 PM.


HerraJUKKA #68 Posted 04 June 2019 - 08:48 PM

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How about make some weakspots and reduce rng/make guns more accurate?

Sorata_ #69 Posted 04 June 2019 - 08:54 PM

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The changes do effectively discourage gold spam but it's not getting to the root cause of the problem -- the lack of weak spots. If you don't want us to press 2 and heat our way through a tank, you must give us the ability to challenge a tank if we have the knowledge and ability to hit its weakspots. I don't mean the pixel snipes like on a lot of tanks currently.



comi_wolfsbrother #70 Posted 04 June 2019 - 09:09 PM

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You know who will benefit from this change ??? WoT premium shop and Defender :))))  Imagine poor IS or worse, KV-85 in 1vs1 situation against Defender with current stats, now imagine the same situation with changes they want to introduce...it is painful situation now, it will be even more painful with new changes. 

Japualtah #71 Posted 04 June 2019 - 09:19 PM

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It's a tour de force, they pretty much got it all wrong on all counts, kudos!

 

What needs to be done is increase all vehicles HPs and reduce gold ammo damage.

 

Nothing else.

 

This nonsense shows they have not the slightest clue about game balancing and this game is better left to die.



tajj7 #72 Posted 04 June 2019 - 09:36 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 04 June 2019 - 06:13 PM, said:

 

Well if you actually looked closely and understood what was going on then the main reason of complaints was the meaningless nerf to DPM and gun handling. How was that supposed to balance those tanks?

 

You yourself said back then that those changes were irrelevant without touching the armor or the stock grind for the 430. Also let's not forget that RU was fierce about the Leo 1 buffs and those counter nerfs!

 

I did read it and it was pretty obvious there was a lot of players just complaining that it shouldn't be nerfed, probably read 100+ posts and they were the majority.

 

And then surprise, no nerfs.

 

And then after that was announced people congratulating on WG for not listening to 'whiners', which google translate managed to pick up. 



evcro #73 Posted 04 June 2019 - 09:49 PM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 04 June 2019 - 04:00 PM, said:

 

I like how 30 minutes of some brainstorming done by people on the forums produce instantly much better solutions than what WG has been coming up with for a year...

 

Basically:

- buff HP on most paper tanks by 50%

- buff HP on most armored tanks by 15%

- buff alpha on most paper/least alpha tanks by 40%

- buff alpha on most armored/most alpha tanks by 15%

 

... so something like E3 would get like 15% hp, 10% alpha; maus something like 15% HP and 20% alpha; grille something like 50% HP and 30% alpha and leopard something like 50% hp and 40% alpha...

 

thanks god you are not working at wargaming

 

this is a stupid idea



Danger__UXB #74 Posted 04 June 2019 - 10:11 PM

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If you look at the concept of theses changes as a whole i can see at least 1 good thing about it....

 

..It will force tanks into their roles ie; Lights and meds might be forced into their proper roles instead of confronting heavies head-on..(altho at the moment they need to in alot of cases)

 

Downsides are;...the way most of the open maps are designed at the moment they cannot do this properly so map changes will be needed (On too many maps there are too many 300m + killzones for TD,s)

 

Balancing should not stop only at Gold spam or else the game will be borked for all tiers..

 

 

In short; Meds and lights need more free map movement to counter the changes and buffs to the heavys

 

 

I am trying to be positive about this but thats just me...



nulldev #75 Posted 04 June 2019 - 10:48 PM

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Seriously, they need to give up, and make a proper single player game, because the balance is a joke, and this idea is not better at all.

Laur_Balaur_XD #76 Posted 04 June 2019 - 11:51 PM

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WG: 

- initially we wanted to nerf premium ammo damage

- but now we will buff the standard ammo damage and also buff the hp of all tanks, premium ammo will retain the same damage as it has now

 

[edited] genius!! How the [edited] is this different from nerfing premium ammo damage??

I can tell you: it's not different at all, it;s the same crap.

But now on top of imbalancing the game even more we can fu*k up all the personal stats: imagine how a reroll after this 'balance' would laught at your average 2.5-3k on a tier 10....

 

This change has nothing to do with balancing the game, WG just wants to make more money.


Edited by Laur_Balaur_XD, 04 June 2019 - 11:52 PM.


Dorander #77 Posted 04 June 2019 - 11:51 PM

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View Postnulldev, on 04 June 2019 - 09:48 PM, said:

Seriously, they need to give up, and make a proper single player game, because the balance is a joke, and this idea is not better at all.

 

Nobody would pay for this game if it was single player.

nulldev #78 Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:03 AM

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View PostDorander, on 05 June 2019 - 12:51 AM, said:

 

Nobody would pay for this game if it was single player.

 

I would, in a SP game they don't need to **** up balance for premiums, and you don't get **** teammates, and can get same tier matches all the time, no wait for 2 min for a match, where you always -2 tier in stock tank.

 



XxKuzkina_MatxX #79 Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:06 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 05 June 2019 - 12:36 AM, said:

I did read it and it was pretty obvious there was a lot of players just complaining that it shouldn't be nerfed, probably read 100+ posts and they were the majority.

 

And then surprise, no nerfs.

 

And then after that was announced people congratulating on WG for not listening to 'whiners', which google translate managed to pick up. 

 

That's simply not true. People complained in RU that the proposed changes were not the solution more or less the same as in EU. The number of 430Us per player ratio is the almost the same in both clusters (0.14 in RU vs. 0.12 in EU). The vehicles distribution by nation is also similar between clusters. The numbers don't support the narrative and if we're going to pick and choose, the AMX 30B buffs were also postponed same as the 430U nerfs.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 05 June 2019 - 12:28 AM.


ExclamationMark #80 Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:14 AM

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View Postnulldev, on 05 June 2019 - 12:03 AM, said:

I would, in a SP game they don't need to **** up balance for premiums, and you don't get **** teammates, and can get same tier matches all the time, no wait for 2 min for a match, where you always -2 tier in stock tank.

 

Go play AW then.





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