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Japanese Super Heavy Counter?

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Suurpolskija #21 Posted 06 June 2019 - 05:56 PM

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Well. If you have the HP, you can always go sidehug and shoot at the upper part of the flat side iirc they have ammoracks there. Against a higher tier super heavy tank that's pretty much all you can do if you don't want to shoot gold. I think with the Mäuschen standard AP you have some 30-40% chance to go through the hatches in type5 front, though. Type4 is easier with some proper frontal weakspots which with Mäuschen gunhandling are pretty easy to hit. 

RetroCh1cken #22 Posted 06 June 2019 - 06:04 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 06 June 2019 - 04:42 PM, said:

 

If he is in a Mauschen against a type 5 alone in the end of the game, just take the tank out and end the game, unless you want to waste your time.
16:46 Added after 3 minutes

 

Its much harder for the Type to pen a Mauschen than the opposite... strange the OP is asking how to face a superheavy in a better superheavy... 

 

I don't know if I'm missing anything but looking at the stats of both type 4/5 it seems like it has better pen, better alpha, better hull and turret armor then Mäuschen so what exacly do you mean with ''better'' super heavy?
17:09 Added after 4 minutes

View PostSuurpolskija, on 06 June 2019 - 04:56 PM, said:

Well. If you have the HP, you can always go sidehug and shoot at the upper part of the flat side iirc they have ammoracks there. Against a higher tier super heavy tank that's pretty much all you can do if you don't want to shoot gold. I think with the Mäuschen standard AP you have some 30-40% chance to go through the hatches in type5 front, though. Type4 is easier with some proper frontal weakspots which with Mäuschen gunhandling are pretty easy to hit. 

 

So, pretty much go for the weakspots and pray for it to work and survive to shoot & repeat?

Geno1isme #23 Posted 06 June 2019 - 09:47 PM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 06 June 2019 - 04:21 PM, said:

So, I can't do anything against a type 5?

 

If you're in a Mäuschen, don't have any support and don't want/can't use premium ammo, not really. That's one of the few cases where using premium ammo is kinda mandatory.

Sure you could fire at its frontal "weakspots" and hope for a RNG highroll, or use HE and do like 30-50 damage to him, but unless you have a massive HP advantage you're not gonna win that fight.



FluffyRedFox #24 Posted 06 June 2019 - 10:13 PM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 06 June 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

 

I don't know if I'm missing anything but looking at the stats of both type 4/5 it seems like it has better pen, better alpha, better hull and turret armor then Mäuschen so what exacly do you mean with ''better'' super heavy?

He's talking bollocks. If you've got no prem, you're *edit basically. Mauschen has 240mm and 200mm effective massive weakspots vs 257mm pen, while the Mauschen has to contend with a pixel sized 235mm eff weakspot on the Type 4, and cannot pen Type 5 reliably in any of the hatch "wEaKsPoTs". Best bet for Type 4 would be trying to get an angle on him and shooting the cheeks when they're less angled.

Like this:

How you're gonna push him with inferior mobility stats, I don't know but there's a chance at least. Don't try this on Type 5, the cheeks are 270mm. Without premium, you really can't do anything to a Type 5 while he can just butter your turret front. 


Edited by xP4_warrior, 07 June 2019 - 11:15 AM.
*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.


crnakoza #25 Posted 06 June 2019 - 10:51 PM

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Just load premium ammo and be done with it, anything over 300 mm of penetration should do fine. Sumo tanks are incredibly dumb design, thick flat frontal surface, nigh indestructible to AP but then load premium and suddenly whole tank is one big weakspot. With tanks that have proper angled surfaces even premium ammo does not guarantee a penetration, angles can still troll you, but the sumo is box shaped, so it makes things dead simple.

 

Those tanks are made to crush people who are too cheap to use premium ammo.


Edited by crnakoza, 06 June 2019 - 10:53 PM.


RetroCh1cken #26 Posted 07 June 2019 - 12:07 AM

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View PostFluffyRedFox, on 06 June 2019 - 09:13 PM, said:

He's talking bollocks. If you've got no prem, you're *edit basically. Mauschen has 240mm and 200mm effective massive weakspots vs 257mm pen, while the Mauschen has to contend with a pixel sized 235mm eff weakspot on the Type 4, and cannot pen Type 5 reliably in any of the hatch "wEaKsPoTs". Best bet for Type 4 would be trying to get an angle on him and shooting the cheeks when they're less angled.

Like this:

How you're gonna push him with inferior mobility stats, I don't know but there's a chance at least. Don't try this on Type 5, the cheeks are 270mm. Without premium, you really can't do anything to a Type 5 while he can just butter your turret front. 

 

Ah okay, that explains a lot. Will try this next time. 

View Postcrnakoza, on 06 June 2019 - 09:51 PM, said:

Just load premium ammo and be done with it, anything over 300 mm of penetration should do fine. Sumo tanks are incredibly dumb design, thick flat frontal surface, nigh indestructible to AP but then load premium and suddenly whole tank is one big weakspot. With tanks that have proper angled surfaces even premium ammo does not guarantee a penetration, angles can still troll you, but the sumo is box shaped, so it makes things dead simple.

 

Those tanks are made to crush people who are too cheap to use premium ammo.

 

Problem is, I lose credits in almost every battle when playing Mäuschen, even the ones I win in. So I'd rather have my tank destroyed than lose more credits then I have to. I've lost almost 100k credits today by just playing Mäuschen so it's not me being cheap, it's me not wanting to become broke.

NoobySkooby #27 Posted 07 June 2019 - 01:12 AM

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WTF is this the type 5 has been nerfed, you are never satisfied,that nerf drove me out of the game, flank it, press 2 key, job done.

Laur_Balaur_XD #28 Posted 07 June 2019 - 01:34 AM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 06 June 2019 - 12:13 PM, said:

 

So there is literally no other way then? Just use gold to pen then?

 

This is exactly why those tanks are like that and introduced in game:

make people shoot gold > spend more credits > buy premium account and/or premium tank > WG profit



Yaccay #29 Posted 07 June 2019 - 05:38 AM

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Do not start a face-to-face (or any other) fight what you can not win.

Avoid fight, fall back.Kill other enemy tanks.

Leave this enemy monster to the end, when your team can kill it easier.



crnakoza #30 Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:19 AM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 07 June 2019 - 12:07 AM, said:

Problem is, I lose credits in almost every battle when playing Mäuschen, even the ones I win in. So I'd rather have my tank destroyed than lose more credits then I have to. I've lost almost 100k credits today by just playing Mäuschen so it's not me being cheap, it's me not wanting to become broke.

 

Your problem is actually running through tiers, you didn't even accumulate enough credits. High tiers are expensive, that's just the nature of it. Encountering tanks such as Type 4/5 makes things even more expensive. Will you decide to stick to AP at the detriment to your own team is your decision. My suggestion? Fire up those tier 8 premiums, I see you have quite a collection, make some credits. If you want to play high tiers be prepared to pay the costs.



HassenderZerhacker #31 Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:41 AM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 07 June 2019 - 12:07 AM, said:

Problem is, I lose credits in almost every battle when playing Mäuschen, even the ones I win in. So I'd rather have my tank destroyed than lose more credits then I have to. I've lost almost 100k credits today by just playing Mäuschen so it's not me being cheap, it's me not wanting to become broke.

 

I remember that I more or less broken even playing Mäuschen.

But anyway, tier 9 and 10 are meant to make free players lose money.

Just play 3 or 4 battles in a good premium tank (I did the Progetto marathon) and you easily get your 100.000 creds back.



SiliconSidewinder #32 Posted 07 June 2019 - 08:40 AM

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1: be something fast and flat

2: wait for the right moment

3: park yourself next to the type with autoaim locked on

4: profit



HassenderZerhacker #33 Posted 07 June 2019 - 08:51 AM

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I will say something most won't like, but here it is: type 5 are easier to kill than IS-7 and its other stalinium clones.

The main difference is that pay-to-win ammo is almost guaranteed to pen on most surfaces of a type 5 that can't really wiggle, while even with pay-to-win ammo wiggling stalinium tanks can be a challenge to pen.

but of course the sumo-japs were very annoying doing damage ignoring armor to wiggling unicums in their stalinium tanks.


Edited by HassenderZerhacker, 07 June 2019 - 09:05 AM.


Mimos_A #34 Posted 07 June 2019 - 09:05 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 07 June 2019 - 08:51 AM, said:

I will say something most won't like, but here it is: type 5 are easier to kill than IS-7 and its other stalinium clones.

The main difference is that pay-to-win ammo is almost guaranteed to pen on most surfaces of a type 5 that can't really wiggle, while even with pay-to-win ammo wiggling stalinium tanks can be a challenge to pen.

but of course the sumo-japs were very annoying doing damage to wiggling unicums in their stalinium tanks.

 

As long as you're prepared to press the 2 key, yes, but even then not every shot was a guaranteed pen. Problem was the combination of very good armour with a *edit pay to win derpgun, But of course it's way cooler to whine about wiggling unicums than acknowledge the actual problems people had with the tank.

Edited by xP4_warrior, 07 June 2019 - 11:20 AM.
*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.


HassenderZerhacker #35 Posted 07 June 2019 - 09:09 AM

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View PostMimos_A, on 07 June 2019 - 09:05 AM, said:

 

As long as you're prepared to press the 2 key, yes, but even then not every shot was a guaranteed pen. Problem was the combination of very good armour with a stupid pay to win derpgun, But of course it's way cooler to whine about wiggling unicums than acknowledge the actual problems people had with the tank.

 

I don't know and I'm too lazy to check if you played any sumo tanks, but pay-to-win ammo is pretty much the only thing people shoot me with when playing a type 5.

It's true, pens are not guaranteed, but I reckon about 75% pen.

The armor is totally useless.

I don't play type 5 anymore.

But as I wrote above, I can totally understand why unicums were whining about the type 5's HE shells - forget that the thing had approx. 1500 DPM and horrible accuracy.
 


Edited by HassenderZerhacker, 07 June 2019 - 09:14 AM.


Mimos_A #36 Posted 07 June 2019 - 09:15 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 07 June 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

 

I don't know and I'm too lazy to check if you played any sumo tanks, but pay-to-win ammo is pretty much the only thing people shoot me with when playing a type 5.

It's true, pens are not guaranteed, but I reckon about 75% pen.

The armor is totally useless.

I don't play type 5 anymore.

 

You know why people fire pay to win ammo at it? Because it fires pay to win HE, and they don't have to aim to do damage. So not returning the favour is pretty dumb.

HassenderZerhacker #37 Posted 07 June 2019 - 09:47 AM

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View PostMimos_A, on 07 June 2019 - 09:15 AM, said:

 

You know why people fire pay to win ammo at it? Because it fires pay to win HE, and they don't have to aim to do damage. So not returning the favour is pretty dumb.

 

you totally missed the point - vs. type 5 pay-to-win ammo has a high pen rate, while vs. wiggling stalinium tanks it's a crapshoot - except the sumo guns with their 1500 DPM.

but is it so different from shooting 3 times with a normal gun and penning just 1 time?



Mimos_A #38 Posted 07 June 2019 - 10:06 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 07 June 2019 - 09:47 AM, said:

 

you totally missed the point - vs. type 5 pay-to-win ammo has a high pen rate, while vs. wiggling stalinium tanks it's a *edit shoot - except the sumo guns with their 1500 DPM.

but is it so different from shooting 3 times with a normal gun and penning just 1 time?

 

Yes, as against stalinium tanks you can use your own armour as well. Against the type-5 *edit bunker you cannot.

Edited by xP4_warrior, 07 June 2019 - 11:25 AM.
*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.


pecopad #39 Posted 07 June 2019 - 10:45 AM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 06 June 2019 - 06:04 PM, said:

 

I don't know if I'm missing anything but looking at the stats of both type 4/5 it seems like it has better pen, better alpha, better hull and turret armor then Mäuschen so what exacly do you mean with ''better'' super heavy?
17:09 Added after 4 minutes

 

 

Tier 9 and 10 you can't avoid shooting prem ammo, if you can't then don't play this tiers, specially in slow tanks.

 

Mauschen has a much better gun than the type 4. Type 4 had the HE, now that it doesn't its an obsolete tank.

 

I'm looking at both tanks in tanks.gg, and if you hide Mauschen LFP and angle the turret you have much better armor, Type 4 has the whole UFP to shoot with premm ammo and the shoulders and hatch you can shoot with normal ammo. I have both tanks, don't play type much because its a very bad tank, imho, and armour in nothing special.

 

Off course all tier 9 heavies are impossible to pen by tier 7's... so  the are OP when they are top of the tier, but apart from that, Type's are not that good.



HassenderZerhacker #40 Posted 07 June 2019 - 11:16 AM

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View Postpecopad, on 07 June 2019 - 10:45 AM, said:

 

Tier 9 and 10 you can't avoid shooting prem ammo, if you can't then don't play this tiers, specially in slow tanks.

 

Mauschen has a much better gun than the type 4. Type 4 had the HE, now that it doesn't its an obsolete tank.

 

I'm looking at both tanks in tanks.gg, and if you hide Mauschen LFP and angle the turret you have much better armor, Type 4 has the whole UFP to shoot with premm ammo and the shoulders and hatch you can shoot with normal ammo. I have both tanks, don't play type much because its a very bad tank, imho, and armour in nothing special.

 

Off course all tier 9 heavies are impossible to pen by tier 7's... so  the are OP when they are top of the tier, but apart from that, Type's are not that good.

 

What makes the Mäuschen work IMO is the cannon that is effective at long and medium range and because there is less pay-to-win ammo in play at tier 9.

Mäuschen's armor is ineffective at short range vs. pay-to-win ammo (they shoot through the turret front), so the winning strategy is to remain at medium range in arty cover.

At medium range, RNG will cause a lot of enemy shots to miss weakspots and bounce off.







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