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squeek94 #1 Posted 07 June 2019 - 10:08 PM

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Hi Wargaming.

I don't normally do this, but I feel a need to do this now. I'm wondering are you taking player suggestions to improve your game?

To be honest I don't know where to post this, so I'll just leave it here,


I've seen videos of sandbox server gameplay. I know everything is subject to change and all that, but I get your idea to reduce the number of "special ammo" fired (I'm just gonna call them gold ammo from now on). I think the whole concept of powercreeping gold ammo (buffing everything else but gold ammo) is against logic at best. It will change the game so much and cause more problems that it will solve in my opinion, and also give you guys 10 times more work.
So my suggestion to solve the gold ammo spam problem is don't touch anything, don't nerf or buff any stats. Leave everything as it is now. Just limit the number of gold ammo the player can load, to like 15%-20% of total ammo loadout. There is also historical accuracy behind this, because these shells were rare, expensive and hard to produce. It would solve the spam because people will not have as much gold ammo to fire and will have to think when to use them and not to waste them on tanks they can penetrate easy.

Also, another great issue in my opinion are wheeled tanks or should I say armored cars. They are just not balanced. Lets say you are in a no-armor tank destroyer on Prokhorovka (i.e. RHM Borsig WT), you drive to your position in a little bush and some guy in a armored car on the enemy team decides to press W. You can have as much cammo as you want, he's simply too fast and no one on your team can him. And just like that, you are spotted, the SPG will do it's thing and BAM, you are dead. And the battle started 20 seconds ago. This happens all the time, not just to me, but also to my friends, streamers on twitch, etc. There are many examples of this.

I know this most likely won't change anything, but I felt I need to do this and give you guys some feedback.
To change my tone, I'd like to give you some positive feedback.
The classic server was awesome, I think it should be a permanent thing like some games have or just introduce it more often. Many players say that the game was better back then. I wouldn't agree with them, I would just say that the game was different. I personally enjoy slower paced gameplay like I had the opportunity to experience on the classic server.

Thank you for reading this and I wish you a nice day :)



Japualtah #2 Posted 07 June 2019 - 10:56 PM

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1° If you limit gold ammo, tanks with low pen guns will be more affected than tanks with high pen guns.

Not fair, so, no.

 

2° Light tanks should do just what wheeled vehicles do: bring some risk elements for campers sitting behind a bush as long as need to assassinate the first player stupidly wanting to play the game. If instead of 750-2000 TDs would deal half of that, we could talk.

Light tanks have been made obsolete over the years to a point they are mostly unplayable if not by the most skilled players, but you didn't come to the forums to complain that it wasn't fair, did you?



WindSplitter1 #3 Posted 07 June 2019 - 11:10 PM

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View PostJapualtah, on 07 June 2019 - 09:56 PM, said:

1° If you limit gold ammo, tanks with low pen guns will be more affected than tanks with high pen guns.

Not fair, so, no.

 

2° Light tanks should do just what wheeled vehicles do: bring some risk elements for campers sitting behind a bush as long as need to assassinate the first player stupidly wanting to play the game. If instead of 750-2000 TDs would deal half of that, we could talk.

Light tanks have been made obsolete over the years to a point they are mostly unplayable if not by the most skilled players, but you didn't come to the forums to complain that it wasn't fair, did you?

 

this

PowJay #4 Posted 07 June 2019 - 11:16 PM

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Nothing new here. Check anyone of dozens of threads on these subjects. It's all been said before.

bitslice #5 Posted 08 June 2019 - 03:27 AM

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View Postsqueek94, on 07 June 2019 - 09:08 PM, said:

I'm wondering are you taking player suggestions to improve your game?

 

I don't understand English, but what I think you said was you wanted us to buff Russian tanks.

 

This we can do Comrade, thank you for your feedback.

 

{moonbase out}

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NUKLEAR_SLUG #6 Posted 08 June 2019 - 08:41 AM

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View Postsqueek94, on 07 June 2019 - 10:08 PM, said:.

Also, another great issue in my opinion are wheeled tanks or should I say armored cars. They are just not balanced. Lets say you are in a no-armor tank destroyer on Prokhorovka (i.e. RHM Borsig WT), you drive to your position in a little bush and some guy in a armored car on the enemy team decides to press W. You can have as much cammo as you want, he's simply too fast and no one on your team can him. And just like that, you are spotted, the SPG will do it's thing and BAM, you are dead. And the battle started 20 seconds ago. This happens all the time, not just to me, but also to my friends, streamers on twitch, etc. 

 

If your team see a wheelie coming and can't shoot it that isn't WG to blame. It's not WG fault your team can't aim straight. It's also your own responsibility to check the team lists and if you see they have a wheelie you should be adjusting your own play with expectation they might try a fast spot run so that you don't get caught out by it. 



vixu #7 Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:12 AM

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OP, limiting gold ammo to 15-20% of load-out does absolutely nothing. Most tanks don't go through 15% of their ammo during typical game.

 

The idea that any tank can pen any tank frontally w/o any drawbacks except some cost in silver is the real issue here. 

 

And YES addressing gold ammo spam is a nerf to those, who spam the gold ammo. There is no way around it. Only question was/is what other rebalancing WG is attempting with their proposed changes. 

 

 



Karasu_Hidesuke #8 Posted 08 June 2019 - 11:12 AM

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View Postvixu, on 08 June 2019 - 08:12 AM, said:

OP, limiting gold ammo to 15-20% of load-out does absolutely nothing. Most tanks don't go through 15% of their ammo during typical game.

 

The idea that any tank can pen any tank frontally w/o any drawbacks except some cost in silver is the real issue here. 

 

And YES addressing gold ammo spam is a nerf to those, who spam the gold ammo. There is no way around it. Only question was/is what other rebalancing WG is attempting with their proposed changes. 

 

 

 

This would also further change the game balance because the rate of fire is very different on different tanks. As such, I am critical of gold ammo even if I use it myself (because I only get in maybe 1 or 2 shots per match and need the xp and credits... though my shots mostly miss so in essence I am just bleeding credits...)

mpf1959 #9 Posted 08 June 2019 - 11:33 AM

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Of course restricting the gold ammo loadout does make a difference. Every game I play is under such conditions, only it's me not WG that imposes it. I load on average 5 gold rounds per tank. Sometimes a few more but generally 5, I do it for 2 reasons, 1) I am tight, even with pretend money, 2) I am trying to learn the game right, and find the weakspot not just opt to pay to shoot anywhere.

 

And the difference it makes is simple, I have to try and pen with ap more as the gold soon runs out, as there is only 5 of them, so if WG implemented a restricted loadout, it would have the exact same effect. Simple really, though a seasoned forum sophist will no doubt prove that to be wrong! :teethhappy:



Gremlin182 #10 Posted 08 June 2019 - 11:54 AM

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My thoughts on premium ammo have not really changed, simply put premium ammo is needed.

Well Premium or something like it I do not care what its called something is needed.

 

You have to allow for underpowered tanks meeting better tanks in games

Whether this mismatch is due to class of tank, being lower tier, Stock configuration or just an underwhelming tank model does not matter.

Until things change you need to be able to to fight effectively with one of more of those limitations.

 

I could see them limiting the number of premium rounds but its a very complex thing to set up, some tanks have 2 guns some as many as 5 would they be willing to set a different number of rounds depending on what gun you have mounted.

Limiting numbers and drastically reducing the cost I wouldn't mind I assume the reason for the high cost is to prevent people just always firing premium.

Limiting numbers removes the need for that.

 

I will give it some more thought after the sandbox

 

 



squeek94 #11 Posted 08 June 2019 - 03:58 PM

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Thank you for your opinion guys.

 

First, the 15-20% was just a random number, it should be adjusted for each tank individually. I'm sick when I see top tier heavys going full heat and shooting no armor meds with gold.

I still stand behind my suggestion to limit the number of golf rounds. Remember when they were sold exclusively for gold? Maybe back then the total number of gold fired was 5%. IMO there is no need to have 20 gold rounds in JPE100 i.e. Also, that would solve the deathstar problem, you get a limited number of HESH rounds and that's it, use it wisely. They would no longer one-shot tier 8 tanks. On the other hand I perfectly understand why you do need those 20 gold rounds in something like a Super Pershing. Also. introduce proper weakspots on tanks as well.

That would also limit the role of light tanks to the light tank role, you would no longer be able to play them as an invisible tank shooting you with gold from the other side of the map. Also, no more full gold arty or full HEAT derps.

I still consider WOT as a historical game, and it's advertised as such. Historically speaking, APCR and HEAT were rare, expensive and hard to produce during WW2 and is post WW2 era.

 

On the other hand I was never complaining about light tank. My concern is about armored cars. After all, this game is called World of TANKS, and these vehicles are not tanks. I can somehow understand how can you consider a SPG as a tank, but something with wheels is not a tank. In my eyes they are OP, just look at their HE rounds. WOT is a fairly slow game to start with, for me this is just game breaking. Remember why the removed the T-50-2 in the first place? It was game breaking as well.

As i mentioned before, this is a historical game for me. Historically speaking armored cars were never meant to fight a tank. Most of them were equipped with autocannons and were meant to support infantry.

 

This is just my honest opinion, I know it's not gonna change anything and I'm not 100% right on this, but this is how I see the problem.


Edited by squeek94, 08 June 2019 - 03:58 PM.


Karasu_Hidesuke #12 Posted 08 June 2019 - 04:29 PM

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View Postsqueek94, on 08 June 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

Thank you for your opinion guys.

 

First, the 15-20% was just a random number, it should be adjusted for each tank individually. I'm sick when I see top tier heavys going full heat and shooting no armor meds with gold.

I still stand behind my suggestion to limit the number of golf rounds. Remember when they were sold exclusively for gold? Maybe back then the total number of gold fired was 5%. IMO there is no need to have 20 gold rounds in JPE100 i.e. Also, that would solve the deathstar problem, you get a limited number of HESH rounds and that's it, use it wisely. They would no longer one-shot tier 8 tanks. On the other hand I perfectly understand why you do need those 20 gold rounds in something like a Super Pershing. Also. introduce proper weakspots on tanks as well.

That would also limit the role of light tanks to the light tank role, you would no longer be able to play them as an invisible tank shooting you with gold from the other side of the map. Also, no more full gold arty or full HEAT derps.

I still consider WOT as a historical game, and it's advertised as such. Historically speaking, APCR and HEAT were rare, expensive and hard to produce during WW2 and is post WW2 era.

 

On the other hand I was never complaining about light tank. My concern is about armored cars. After all, this game is called World of TANKS, and these vehicles are not tanks. I can somehow understand how can you consider a SPG as a tank, but something with wheels is not a tank. In my eyes they are OP, just look at their HE rounds. WOT is a fairly slow game to start with, for me this is just game breaking. Remember why the removed the T-50-2 in the first place? It was game breaking as well.

As i mentioned before, this is a historical game for me. Historically speaking armored cars were never meant to fight a tank. Most of them were equipped with autocannons and were meant to support infantry.

 

This is just my honest opinion, I know it's not gonna change anything and I'm not 100% right on this, but this is how I see the problem.

 

Your take is correct IMHO, but you are gonna make the 'it's-an-arcade-game-not-a-simulation' lobby upset because that is their favorite (and effectively almost the only) excuse for dodgy mechanics and problems caused unrealistic and IMO poor game balance decisions.

aleksot #13 Posted 08 June 2019 - 04:38 PM

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yes, limit gold ammo for tier 8 tanks which have now 112mm penetration and say good luck piece of meat nerfed to death and laugh hard as you are crazy anyway. Or limit to 10% for all tanks, this way E100 will have around 15 gold ammo withpotential damage of 11250 and compare it to amx 13 75 that will have 3 gold rounds with potential damage of 350

or you can make it even further- pz II J was a tank that some crazy persons bought for crazy amount of gold, this way with 10% of gold this tank can be balanced because no clever person will never take to battle again. So you sold crazy gold spam tank, then remove gold, its double win-sold tanks for crazy money that can not perform in battle.


Edited by aleksot, 08 June 2019 - 04:42 PM.


Long_Range_Sniper #14 Posted 08 June 2019 - 04:41 PM

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View Postsqueek94, on 07 June 2019 - 09:08 PM, said:

Thank you for reading this and I wish you a nice day :)

 

Unfortunately, I have it on good authority that WG have struggled to recruit a community manager for the English speaking forum.



squeek94 #15 Posted 08 June 2019 - 05:01 PM

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View Postaleksot, on 08 June 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

yes, limit gold ammo for tier 8 tanks which have now 112mm penetration and say good luck piece of meat nerfed to death and laugh hard as you are crazy anyway. Or limit to 10% for all tanks, this way E100 will have around 15 gold ammo withpotential damage of 11250 and compare it to amx 13 75 that will have 3 gold rounds with potential damage of 350

or you can make it even further- pz II J was a tank that some crazy persons bought for crazy amount of gold, this way with 10% of gold this tank can be balanced because no clever person will never take to battle again. So you sold crazy gold spam tank, then remove gold, its double win-sold tanks for crazy money that can not perform in battle.

 

I get your concern, but you got it wrong. E100 has ammo capacity of 50 with the 15cm gun. So let's say we limit gold rounds for E100 to 7. TBH you don't need more and there would be no more full HEAT E 100s.

AMX 13 75 is a light tank, and it's main role is not to counter heavys, than to scout in early game and mop up in endgame. So 2 clips of gold are enough. What would you do if gold was sold for, you know, gold? Load AP and aim for weakspots, don't camp redline and spam premium. Also that would solve AMX 13 57 full gold spam.

I won't even comment on the PZ II J because this tank is outright disgustingly OP and gamebreaking. IMO it should never be sold again.



Long_Range_Sniper #16 Posted 08 June 2019 - 05:06 PM

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View Postsqueek94, on 08 June 2019 - 04:01 PM, said:

 What would you do if gold was sold for, you know, gold?

 

People would still use it. Look how many people had 25k gold sat in their accounts just waiting to be spent on a Type 59G


Edited by Long_Range_Sniper, 08 June 2019 - 05:07 PM.


squeek94 #17 Posted 08 June 2019 - 07:12 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 08 June 2019 - 05:06 PM, said:

 

People would still use it. Look how many people had 25k gold sat in their accounts just waiting to be spent on a Type 59G

 

I know people would still use it, but it will be reduced roughly to the famous 5% of all shells fired.

But that's not my point, there is no need to make gold ammo gold only.

 

My point is the gold spam. Bounced on a E 50M in your 705A? No problem, 2 key makes you a better player.

 

For me this is the biggest problem in the game at this state. Complete lack of skill to aim required. No weakspots, no need to aim, just press the 2 key.

Wheeled things are also just bad for the game, and I didn't ever reach the Defender, 430U, 268v4 and other things like that.



ExclamationMark #18 Posted 08 June 2019 - 07:15 PM

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Gold does not make you a better player. Has been proven countless times. The reason unicums (and players in general) tend to "spam" gold is to limit RNG. It has nothing to do with skill, or lack thereof. 

Long_Range_Sniper #19 Posted 08 June 2019 - 07:47 PM

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View Postsqueek94, on 08 June 2019 - 06:12 PM, said:

I know people would still use it, but it will be reduced roughly to the famous 5% of all shells fired.

But that's not my point, there is no need to make gold ammo gold only.

 

Actually it might not. My own clan has 60k kicking around in our gold reserves from clan games, and we don't do a lot. In the old days when fewer people were playing at higher levels gold was expensive.

 

Now, you just have to look at the sales frenzies that happened over the black market.

 

Premium shells should be re-balanced on performance. But going on the economy won't work.

 

 

 

 

 


Nishi_Kinuyo #20 Posted 08 June 2019 - 10:08 PM

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Some tanks could easily be placed 1-2 tiers lower if you restricted their access to special ammo.

Three tanks which really come to mind are the B1, B2 and the PzKpfw II Ausf J which barely have enough penetration to deal with tanks of their own tier, nevermind those of a higher tier.






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