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Bushes + Spotting question.


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Riggerby #1 Posted 09 June 2019 - 08:12 PM

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Hey all, I've noticed alot of times lately, Where i have been spotting other tanks whilst im hidden in a bush, And then i back up behind the bush until i can no longer see through it, Shoot the enemy, yet i am spotted?. I was under the impression if you cant see through a bush you cant be spotted? Advice pleasee. (Also, The crews i've been doing this with have been full camo crew + BIA + camo nets + good camo value tanks).

 

Ta.



Homer_J #2 Posted 09 June 2019 - 08:19 PM

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View PostRiggerby, on 09 June 2019 - 08:12 PM, said:

 I was under the impression if you cant see through a bush you cant be spotted?

 

That is not correct.  Bushes only add to your camo, they do not make you invisible.  A bush you can see through gives you no camo if you shoot though.

Balc0ra #3 Posted 09 June 2019 - 08:23 PM

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Two options. 1: You were spotted via the flank. Or the bush has gaps in it at he lower section. Like when you have two placed close together, the spotting lines might still see your lower plate dot between them. 

 

2: Even 15m behind the bush, you are not 100% impossible to spot. Dense bushes give 50% additional rating. Stacking up to max 80% even when hiding behind a double bush. So your rating will never be 100%. Thus there is still a chance to spot you. But when firing that % drops like normal. Thus having multiple 50% bushes between you can stack that up so it doesn't drop. But with just one it's still going to go down to your % when firing + that 50% from the bush. So say you have 4% when firing. That's 54%. And then any 400m view range tank can still spot you at 211m with that % rating. 


Edited by Balc0ra, 09 June 2019 - 08:24 PM.


Riggerby #4 Posted 09 June 2019 - 08:41 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 09 June 2019 - 08:23 PM, said:

Two options. 1: You were spotted via the flank. Or the bush has gaps in it at he lower section. Like when you have two placed close together, the spotting lines might still see your lower plate dot between them. 

 

2: Even 15m behind the bush, you are not 100% impossible to spot. Dense bushes give 50% additional rating. Stacking up to max 80% even when hiding behind a double bush. So your rating will never be 100%. Thus there is still a chance to spot you. But when firing that % drops like normal. Thus having multiple 50% bushes between you can stack that up so it doesn't drop. But with just one it's still going to go down to your % when firing + that 50% from the bush. So say you have 4% when firing. That's 54%. And then any 400m view range tank can still spot you at 211m with that % rating. 

 

 

The latest time it happened, Which got me really curious, I was in StrvS1, Right now ive got my stationary camo value up to 64.35/13.45 (I Also use a camo net). I had a building to one side, A bush covering all my front and the map border to my other side so it was impossible to see me through a way that wasnt through that bush, I could not see through the bush when i fired, I shot an E75, Blew his tracks off and did damage, He trained his turret perfectly at me, Spot light went off, Bam 1 shot (He set me on fire and i died from full HP). I dont know the exact of how far away he was :/.



HassenderZerhacker #5 Posted 09 June 2019 - 08:45 PM

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View PostRiggerby, on 09 June 2019 - 08:12 PM, said:

Hey all, I've noticed alot of times lately, Where i have been spotting other tanks whilst im hidden in a bush, And then i back up behind the bush until i can no longer see through it, Shoot the enemy, yet i am spotted?. I was under the impression if you cant see through a bush you cant be spotted? Advice pleasee. (Also, The crews i've been doing this with have been full camo crew + BIA + camo nets + good camo value tanks).

 

Ta.

 

I am increasingly under the impression that there is RNG on bush camo.

Sometimes they hide me, sometimes they don't.

 



Balc0ra #6 Posted 09 June 2019 - 08:53 PM

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View PostRiggerby, on 09 June 2019 - 08:41 PM, said:

 

 

The latest time it happened, Which got me really curious, I was in StrvS1, Right now ive got my stationary camo value up to 64.35/13.45 (I Also use a camo net).

 

Again, it can only go to 80% max when stationary with the bonus the bush gives you. So basically 63.45% with the bush when firing gives any tank with 445m view range a detection rage of 195m even with cover.

nc30_guy #7 Posted 09 June 2019 - 09:02 PM

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Some bushes give camo some not so much and the hit direction pointer is a bad thing also..... watch your replay back and check the range when you shot him on your reticule maybe he had bino's and they kicked in once he stopped lowering your camo value enough to see you.

Edited by nc30_guy, 09 June 2019 - 09:04 PM.


arthurwellsley #8 Posted 09 June 2019 - 09:03 PM

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View PostRiggerby, on 09 June 2019 - 07:41 PM, said:

 

 

The latest time it happened, Which got me really curious, I was in StrvS1, Right now ive got my stationary camo value up to 64.35/13.45 (I Also use a camo net). I had a building to one side, A bush covering all my front and the map border to my other side so it was impossible to see me through a way that wasnt through that bush, I could not see through the bush when i fired, I shot an E75, Blew his tracks off and did damage, He trained his turret perfectly at me, Spot light went off, Bam 1 shot (He set me on fire and i died from full HP). I dont know the exact of how far away he was :/.

 

From the wiki=

environmentCamo
You can use the different objects on the map to provide additional cover. Solid objects like terrain elevations, rocks, houses, or other static objects on the map cannot be seen through and thus always provide 100% camouflage, i.e. you will not be spotted. But also half-transparent objects like bushes or trees (up or felled) provide a camouflage bonus up to 64%, depending on the density of the object. A full list can be found here.

As soon as you fire your gun, the camouflage bonus provided by transparent objects in a 15m radius around your tank is reduced to 30% of the original value. Objects further away are unaffected.
 
 
The above has my underlining and bold. As soon as you fire your gun you reduce your camo value. Thus immediately upon shooting your 64 value dropped to possibly as low as 40.
 
The only TDs this does not apply to is some of the earlier premium TD's such as the e25 which do not lose camo value on shooting.
 
source = http://wiki.wargamin...nics#Visibility

Edited by arthurwellsley, 09 June 2019 - 09:05 PM.


Balc0ra #9 Posted 09 June 2019 - 09:04 PM

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View Postnc30_guy, on 09 June 2019 - 09:02 PM, said:

Some bushes give camo some not so much and the hit direction pointer is a bad thing also.

 

Bushes with no green on, or naked trees gives you 25% extra. A dense bush and a knocked over tree with covered branches gives you 50% pr bush. But again it only stacks to 80% max. But it affects your camo when firing when you have two 50% bushes in front of you.

arthurwellsley #10 Posted 09 June 2019 - 09:07 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 09 June 2019 - 08:04 PM, said:

But again it only stacks to 80% max.

 

Is the wiki page wrong when it says up to 64%? Or is that a reference to the single most dense bush that the testers found?

LCpl_Jones #11 Posted 09 June 2019 - 10:01 PM

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ah the good old this bush looks the same as the other, one can hide a maus the other can't hide an elc even. 

antwerp_fighter #12 Posted 10 June 2019 - 09:24 AM

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because that bush is not "made in Russia".

Homer_J #13 Posted 10 June 2019 - 09:55 AM

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View PostRiggerby, on 09 June 2019 - 08:41 PM, said:

 

 

The latest time it happened, Which got me really curious, I was in StrvS1, Right now ive got my stationary camo value up to 64.35/13.45 (I Also use a camo net). I had a building to one side, A bush covering all my front and the map border to my other side so it was impossible to see me through a way that wasnt through that bush, I could not see through the bush when i fired, I shot an E75, Blew his tracks off and did damage, He trained his turret perfectly at me, Spot light went off, Bam 1 shot (He set me on fire and i died from full HP). I dont know the exact of how far away he was :/.

 

If you have the replay you can check exactly how far away he was.

 

But it might not have been the E75 spotting you, there may have been something closer which you couldn't spot.



Captain_Kremen0 #14 Posted 10 June 2019 - 11:58 AM

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Some very good very experienced players failing to reach a consensus on a very old topic.

Can some people please remember this and refrain from the usual "Noob" bollocks next time someone asks a "simple" question......



TankkiPoju #15 Posted 10 June 2019 - 12:06 PM

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Many old WoT players including many streamers like QB still think bushes always give 100% camo when you fire 15m behind bushes. So they get spotted, then cry about bushes not working.

 

WG also has made many "thick bushes" to be more transparent than you would expect, like middle of Fisherman's Bay. This is probably for trying to balance the maps, so people cant shoot behind bushes all the time and remain unspotted.

 


Edited by TankkiPoju, 10 June 2019 - 12:08 PM.


Homer_J #16 Posted 10 June 2019 - 12:57 PM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 10 June 2019 - 12:06 PM, said:

Many old WoT players including many streamers like QB still think bushes always give 100% camo when you fire 15m behind bushes.

 

The thing is they never did.  Only double bushes gave you that.  And that was a long long time ago.

 

View Postarthurwellsley, on 09 June 2019 - 09:07 PM, said:

 

Is the wiki page wrong when it says up to 64%? Or is that a reference to the single most dense bush that the testers found?

 

I wouldn't trust the wiki page, it's only as good as the people editing it.

Dorander #17 Posted 10 June 2019 - 02:52 PM

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View PostRiggerby, on 09 June 2019 - 07:41 PM, said:

 

 

The latest time it happened, Which got me really curious, I was in StrvS1, Right now ive got my stationary camo value up to 64.35/13.45 (I Also use a camo net). I had a building to one side, A bush covering all my front and the map border to my other side so it was impossible to see me through a way that wasnt through that bush, I could not see through the bush when i fired, I shot an E75, Blew his tracks off and did damage, He trained his turret perfectly at me, Spot light went off, Bam 1 shot (He set me on fire and i died from full HP). I dont know the exact of how far away he was :/.

 

Having the distance to the E75 might help a bit for accuracy sake, else we're pretty much forced to guarantee "apparently he was close enough", or somebody else was.

 

Basically, bushes within 15m of you lose camo as already described, firing your gun causes you to lower camo (going to guess 13.45 is stationary when firing value?), and it's definitely not guaranteed invisibility. In my personal experience most tanks within 200m will spot me regardless, beyond that it's iffy.

 

Also, some experiments have been done and one bush is not the equal of another, there used to be a google spreadsheet floating around with measured camouflage bonuses of individual bushes on every map. Not sure if it's still around or up to date, but the differences can be huge.



OreH75 #18 Posted 10 June 2019 - 03:21 PM

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View PostRiggerby, on 09 June 2019 - 08:41 PM, said:

 

 

The latest time it happened, Which got me really curious, I was in StrvS1, Right now ive got my stationary camo value up to 64.35/13.45 (I Also use a camo net). I had a building to one side, A bush covering all my front and the map border to my other side so it was impossible to see me through a way that wasnt through that bush, I could not see through the bush when i fired, I shot an E75, Blew his tracks off and did damage, He trained his turret perfectly at me, Spot light went off, Bam 1 shot (He set me on fire and i died from full HP). I dont know the exact of how far away he was :/.

 

Useless without a replay. Maybe a enemy light was closer then the e75.




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