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Wargaming is miscalculating XP and also thinks 2+3=4. Please help.

WOT wargaming xp experience event support mission players help mathematical breakthrough

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XcammX #1 Posted 12 June 2019 - 07:14 PM

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Moderators: Firstly, I have been explicitly requested to post this on the forums by Player Support, as whilst i beg to differ, they have told me repeatedly that it is obviously correct and and that Wargmaing does not make mistakes. They felt that they could not explain the maths for me to understand and that I could get more support from the player base. I am more than happy to provide evidence of this upon request but I'm worried it would break the naming forum rules. If a mod cofirms that I can post the support screenshots I will post the entirety.

 

tldr - WG is mistakenly calculating or advertising event/mission XP. I reckon it lost me 20k XP over D-day weekend.

 

So I contacted WG and asked why the x2 'Lets win this' mission was not being applied (see first photo for the xp breakdown). I quickly got a response that it was applied and that the 1480 'rewards for mission' was the 1233 plus a bonus from another mission. The beneath relates to my sitution but any time theres been a coefficient bonus, I believe theres a potential issue.

 

I then asked why did it effectively equal 4xp i.e. 3xp + xp? And not total xp = 3xp + 2xp? And to have a look at photo 4.

 

To which I got my all time response of well if its 3xp + 2xp then you would be adding the xp twice so it has to be 3xp + 2xp = 4xp. Historic mathematical breakthrough?

 

I quickly querried that the manageable bonus is a x3? And the Lets Win This mission bonus is x2? Yep. "So like x3 and x2?" Yep.

 

"Like xp(3+2) = 3xp + 2xp = 5xp?" 'No your adding it twice again.'

 

*Bangs head on wall*

 

I have since spoken to several people on the WG support who have each given me diffferent mathematical equations to explain it. None of which involve a x3 and x2. One even said I'd got lucky and the x2 activated twice and that the x3 manageable bonus had not been applied! Please see photo 1's experience breakdown for evidence very much of the contrary.

 

I believe its comeabout from someone taking a short cut in the coding and as 2*1=2 and 1+1=2, they thought they could just add the base xp to save some work. Forgetting about other coefficients.

 

Can someone please explain the maths because I am just not getting it??! Also please help me contact support.

 

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Edited by XcammX, 12 June 2019 - 08:43 PM.


NekoPuffer_PPP #2 Posted 12 June 2019 - 07:23 PM

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Example:

 

You have 1000 base XP

 

That XP is multiplied by two, you now have 1000 base XP and receive 1000 bonus XP from it

 

Your base XP is multiplied again, now by three, you now have 1000 base XP and receive 2000 bonus XP from it

 

Your base XP is added with the total amount of bonus XP, which is 3000 XP

 

You now have 4000 XP total.

 

 

The base XP is multiplied twice separately, meaning 1x2=1+1, 1x3=1+2,  resulting in 1+1+2=4


Edited by NekoPuffer_PPP, 12 June 2019 - 07:26 PM.


XcammX #3 Posted 12 June 2019 - 07:27 PM

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Nope, have a look at this. Sorry forgot to post it in the OP.

 

Also your giving a description for how a +100% and +300% would work. The mission was a coefficient, x2.

 

Cam

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Edited by XcammX, 12 June 2019 - 07:33 PM.


Geno1isme #4 Posted 12 June 2019 - 07:33 PM

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From what I can decipher, you're just confused by the way WG handles boni: a x2 bonus doesn't mean "double", it just means +100%. In the same way x3 just means +200%. By itself those representations are equal, however if you combine them you get the difference you observe: +100% + +200% = +300%, or x4, not x2+x3=x5. This is a long standing fact.

XcammX #5 Posted 12 June 2019 - 07:45 PM

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Have a look at the AMX 50 120 post battle screen from the post above yours, that has a x5 from a x2 and x3 combining.

 

Cam



Xanjori #6 Posted 12 June 2019 - 07:52 PM

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Both the other guys have explained it to you. Basically a x2 gives you +100% base XP, and a x3 bonus gives you +200% base XP. Which leaves you with 400% base XP, aka x4.

Stimpeltje #7 Posted 12 June 2019 - 07:56 PM

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The 2x of the event is calculated on base XP?

Edited by Stimpeltje, 12 June 2019 - 07:58 PM.


XcammX #8 Posted 12 June 2019 - 08:01 PM

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View PostXanjori, on 12 June 2019 - 06:52 PM, said:

Both the other guys have explained it to you. Basically a x2 gives you +100% base XP, and a x3 bonus gives you +200% base XP. Which leaves you with 400% base XP, aka x4.

 

Okay let me rephrase. Look at photos 1 and 4 from the OP.

 

Both are x2 and x3 coefficients. How do they give different results? One a x4 the other a x5?

 

View PostStimpeltje, on 12 June 2019 - 06:56 PM, said:

The 2x of the event is calculated on base XP, not premium XP

 

That was my first idea but Wargaming confirmed it was calculated using premium XP, the 1480 = 1233 (prem xp) + 20% of prem xp for the d-day marathon level bonus.



Stimpeltje #9 Posted 12 June 2019 - 08:09 PM

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View PostXcammX, on 12 June 2019 - 08:01 PM, said:

 

Okay let me rephrase. Look at photos 1 and 4 from the OP.

 

Both are x2 and x3 coefficients. How do they give different results? One a x4 the other a x5?

 

 

I understand the confusion.

 

 

Leo: Base XP x3 + extra base xp (note, NOT X2, just extra base XP) = base XP x4.

AMX 50/120: Base XP x3 + base XP x2 =  Base XP x5

 

Both are sort of correct.

Note that in the example of the leo the X2 isnt there in the end result screen.

To avoid confusion they could rephrase it a bit. Like: 1x extra base XP, or smthing like that. Or indeed just +100% base XP.

 


Edited by Stimpeltje, 12 June 2019 - 08:11 PM.


PayMore #10 Posted 12 June 2019 - 08:12 PM

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I think the best algebaristas in whiterussia is working in døner kebab shops in germany, so it aint easy to get this right.

Edited by PayMore, 12 June 2019 - 08:13 PM.


NekoPuffer_PPP #11 Posted 12 June 2019 - 08:20 PM

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View PostXcammX, on 12 June 2019 - 07:27 PM, said:

Nope, have a look at this. Sorry forgot to post it in the OP.

 

Also your giving a description for how a +100% and +300% would work. The mission was a coefficient, x2.

 

Cam

 

Right, NOW I see.

 

Simultaneous multipliers combine, meaning if there's two they'll add together, then multiply.

 

The bonus from the mission is the +100% coefficient which is added to the calculation of baseXP + x3.

 

The mission is separated from the x3, as explained previously, and is only added to the result afterwards.

 

Why is it not an exact double of base XP, but instead more? Like, how do you get 1233 base XP and 1450 bonus XP from the mission which is supposed to give an additional 1233 bonus XP?



XcammX #12 Posted 12 June 2019 - 08:22 PM

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View PostStimpeltje, on 12 June 2019 - 07:09 PM, said:

 

I understand the confusion.

 

 

Leo: Base XP x3 + extra base xp (note, NOT X2, just extra base XP) = base XP x4.

AMX 50/120: Base XP x3 + base XP x2 =  Base XP x5

 

Both are sort of correct.

Note that in the example of the leo the X2 isnt there in the end result screen.

To avoid confusion they could rephrase it a bit. Like: 1x extra base XP, or smthing like that. Or indeed just +100% base XP.

 

 

That is exactly how it has been calculated. But the mission for the Leo has the identical definition of the Daily Victory Bonus which is x2 for the AMX 50 120.

 

My point is that the advertising does not match the calculation of the bonus.

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View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 12 June 2019 - 07:20 PM, said:

 

Right, NOW I see.

 

Simultaneous multipliers combine, meaning if there's two they'll add together, then multiply.

 

The bonus from the mission is the +100% coefficient which is added to the calculation of baseXP + x3.

 

The mission is separated from the x3, as explained previously, and is only added to the result afterwards.

 

Why is it not an exact double of base XP, but instead more? Like, how do you get 1233 base XP and 1450 bonus XP from the mission which is supposed to give an additional 1233 bonus XP?

 

But its not a +100% coefficient, its a x2 coefficient. Same same but oh so different when theres other coefficients.

 

BTW its 1480 not 1450. It was calculated as 1233 (base xp for Lets Win This mission) + 1233*0.2 (for the level 4/5th rank of the D-day tank marathon).

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HugSeal #13 Posted 12 June 2019 - 08:57 PM

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View PostXcammX, on 12 June 2019 - 08:22 PM, said:

 

But its not a +100% coefficient, its a x2 coefficient. Same same but oh so different when theres other coefficients.

 

 

Same but not at all different. x2 and +100% is actually the same coefficient, just presented in two different ways.



NekoPuffer_PPP #14 Posted 12 June 2019 - 09:00 PM

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View PostXcammX, on 12 June 2019 - 08:22 PM, said:

But its not a +100% coefficient, its a x2 coefficient. Same same but oh so different when theres other coefficients.

 

BTW its 1480 not 1450. It was calculated as 1233 (base xp for Lets Win This mission) + 1233*0.2 (for the level 4/5th rank of the D-day tank marathon).

 

It seems to just multiply the base XP on its own, regardless of other multipliers.

 

With the AMX, the multipliers combine, then multiply, and end up with a higher result.

 

So I guess mission bonuses work differently than multipliers.



XcammX #15 Posted 12 June 2019 - 09:25 PM

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View PostHugSeal, on 12 June 2019 - 07:57 PM, said:

 

Same but not at all different. x2 and +100% is actually the same coefficient, just presented in two different ways.

 

Forgive the maths.

 

Okay take your +100%

 

xp(1+1) = 2xp

 

introduce a second coefficient of x2

 

xp(2*1+1) = 3xp

 

Now with,

 

just the single x2

 

xp(2) = 2xp

 

introduce a second coefficient of x2

 

xp(2+2) = 4xp

 

They're different. They have the same value in their original instance. But they react differently to other coefficients because one is based on multiplication (x2) and one is addition (+100%).


Edited by XcammX, 12 June 2019 - 09:31 PM.


Homer_J #16 Posted 12 June 2019 - 09:40 PM

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View PostXcammX, on 12 June 2019 - 07:27 PM, said:

Nope, have a look at this. Sorry forgot to post it in the OP.

 

Also your giving a description for how a +100% and +300% would work. The mission was a coefficient, x2.

 

Cam

 

x2 is almost never calculated as x2, it is +100%.  Same with x3 x5 etc.

 

The manageable bonus is an exception.  That is +300%.

 

It may be confusing but that's how it has always been.

 

Could you post some bigger screenshots BTW, I could almost read the text on those.  Never heard of cropping?


Edited by Homer_J, 12 June 2019 - 09:41 PM.


XcammX #17 Posted 12 June 2019 - 09:49 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 12 June 2019 - 08:40 PM, said:

 

x2 is almost never calculated as x2, it is +100%.  Same with x3 x5 etc.

 

The manageable bonus is an exception.  That is +300%.

 

It may be confusing but that's how it has always been.

 

Could you post some bigger screenshots BTW, I could almost read the text on those.  Never heard of cropping?

 

Might be the done thing but its still wrong.

 

Think I might have heard of it once or twise I just completely disagree with your forum signature. Bigger is always better ahah!


Edited by XcammX, 12 June 2019 - 09:53 PM.


HugSeal #18 Posted 12 June 2019 - 10:14 PM

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View PostXcammX, on 12 June 2019 - 09:25 PM, said:

View PostHugSeal, on 12 June 2019 - 07:57 PM, said:

 

Same but not at all different. x2 and +100% is actually the same coefficient, just presented in two different ways.

 

Forgive the maths.

 

Okay take your +100%

 

xp(1+1) = 2xp

 

introduce a second coefficient of x2

 

xp(2*1+1) = 3xp

 

Now with,

 

just the single x2

 

xp(2) = 2xp

 

introduce a second coefficient of x2

 

xp(2+2) = 4xp

 

They're different. They have the same value in their original instance. But they react differently to other coefficients because one is based on multiplication (x2) and one is addition (+100%).

 

with one 100% multiplier, Basexp=1xp

 

Basexp+Basexp*1=2xp

 

With a second x2 muliplier:

Basexp+Basexp*1+Basexp*(2-1)=3xp

 

With a second 100% multiplier:

Basexp+Basexp*1+Basexp*1=3xp

 

With a single x2:

Basexp+Basexp*(2-1)=2xp

 

With N xM multipliers:

Basexp+N*Basexp*(M-1)=1+M*(N-1) xp

 

Now using that formula for 2 x2 multipliers:

Basexp+2*Basexp*(2-1)=1+2*1*(2-1)=3xp

 

No, they are not different. You are confusing how a coefficient is worded with if the coefficient applies to previous bonuses, which they don't. They are calculated addtively, not multiplicative. It doesn't matter if the coefficient is worded +100% or x2.

 

If they were added multiplicative and worded as 100%:

 

2 +100% bonuses:

 

Basexp*(1+100%)*(1+100%)=4xp


Edited by HugSeal, 12 June 2019 - 10:20 PM.


Homer_J #19 Posted 12 June 2019 - 10:29 PM

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View PostXcammX, on 12 June 2019 - 09:49 PM, said:

 

 

Might be the done thing but its still wrong.

 

It's the way it has always been calculated, if you get a single x2 or x5 etc. then it works out the same, it's only confusing when you combine multiple multipliers.

 

Seems odd that it's taken you nearly ten thousand battles to figure it out though.



XcammX #20 Posted 12 June 2019 - 10:57 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 12 June 2019 - 09:29 PM, said:

 

It's the way it has always been calculated, if you get a single x2 or x5 etc. then it works out the same, it's only confusing when you combine multiple multipliers.

 

Seems odd that it's taken you nearly ten thousand battles to figure it out though.

 

I had two battles back to back, both played well - both used the x3 manageable bonus and then supposedly had x2 bonuses as well (first with the x2 victory bonus and then with this d-day 'x2' bonus), and with same base xp there was a 2k difference between the total xp! Only looked into it cause made absolutely no bloody sense. And then Wargaming Support ...

 

 

View PostHugSeal, on 12 June 2019 - 09:14 PM, said:

 

with one 100% multiplier, Basexp=1xp

 

Basexp+Basexp*1=2xp

 

With a second x2 muliplier:

Basexp+Basexp*1+Basexp*(2-1)=3xp

 

With a second 100% multiplier:

Basexp+Basexp*1+Basexp*1=3xp

 

With a single x2:

Basexp+Basexp*(2-1)=2xp

 

With N xM multipliers:

Basexp+N*Basexp*(M-1)=1+M*(N-1) xp

 

Now using that formula for 2 x2 multipliers:

Basexp+2*Basexp*(2-1)=1+2*1*(2-1)=3xp

 

No, they are not different. You are confusing how a coefficient is worded with if the coefficient applies to previous bonuses, which they don't. They are calculated addtively, not multiplicative. It doesn't matter if the coefficient is worded +100% or x2.

 

If they were added multiplicative and worded as 100%:

 

2 +100% bonuses:

 

Basexp*(1+100%)*(1+100%)=4xp

 

HugSeal a coefficient is by definition multiplied to the original number, it can never be by addition ie. 1+1(2-1). A +100% also by definition can never be multiplied with your example of 2 +100% it should be Oxp + xp + xp = 3xp. The two by definition are not interchangeable.

 

I'm not trying to say all bonuses should be multiplied. Im saying a x2 coefficient by definition should be multiplied whilst the +100% should be an addition.The two battles (photos 1&4 OP), one which is actually a +100% (Leo) and one a x2 (AMX) come out with different results proving it.

 






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