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Wargaming is miscalculating XP and also thinks 2+3=4. Please help.

WOT wargaming xp experience event support mission players help mathematical breakthrough

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CmdRatScabies #21 Posted 12 June 2019 - 11:22 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 12 June 2019 - 09:40 PM, said:

The manageable bonus is an exception.  That is +300%.

 

I think someone pointed out a few weeks ago that it is when it is combined with the "first win of the day in that tank bonus" but otherwise it just works like all the normal x bonuses.  Seems like they're giving us a bit extra on the first win.

HugSeal #22 Posted 13 June 2019 - 12:35 AM

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View PostXcammX, on 12 June 2019 - 10:57 PM, said:

 

 

HugSeal a coefficient is by definition multiplied to the original number, it can never be by addition ie. 1+1(2-1). A +100% also by definition can never be multiplied with your example of 2 +100% it should be Oxp + xp + xp = 3xp. The two by definition are not interchangeable.

 

I'm not trying to say all bonuses should be multiplied. Im saying a x2 coefficient by definition should be multiplied whilst the +100% should be an addition.The two battles (photos 1&4 OP), one which is actually a +100% (Leo) and one a x2 (AMX) come out with different results proving it.

 

 

I bolded the important part. That is also not the definition of a coefficient. Every single one of my examples multiplies the xN multiplier with the original number.

 

I honestly have no idea what you are on about when you state that +100% can never be multiplied. If you don't use the 100% as a factor then what exactly is it 100% of? I would argue that if you don't multiply those 100% with anything it doesn't make sense.

 

Your rephrasing of my 2*100% example states O(?)xp+xp+xp. Where did you get those xp from? Shouldn't they just be "100%" meaning you get Oxp+200%, 200% of...something?

 

Unless of course you mean Basexp+100%*Basexp+100%*Basexp=300% of the Basexp. Which is how it works. Please explain how the percentage can make sense if ou never multiply it with something.

 

The percentage sign literally means parts of a hundred. 100%=1.

200%xp on the first win is literally the same thing as x2 p on the first win. If you ad two bonuses stating 500% xp on the first win would you think that meant 2500%/25x xp on the first win? That contradicts even your definition of coefficient stating it is multiplied to the original number.

 

The x2 bonus is multiplied and added, the 100% bonus is multiplied and added.


Edited by HugSeal, 13 June 2019 - 12:49 AM.


XcammX #23 Posted 13 June 2019 - 09:40 AM

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Because +100% is addition, it has a plus sign in front of it, the +.

Yes you have to work out the percentage first obviously, I.e 100% of xp = xp.

Hence my O(riginal)xp + xp + xp = 3xp, for an x3, 300% or +200% bonus.

Your getting confused as a x3 = 300% and that is a coefficient.

They are purely multiplied to the base xp.

A +200% is a value (yes, calculated with coefficient) to then be ADDED to the original xp.

+200% = 2*base xp

Total xp = base xp + 2* base xp

Total xp = 3 * base xp

Whereas a 200% or x2 coefficient is MULTIPLIED to the original xp.

200% = 2*base xp

Total xp = 2*base xp



HugSeal #24 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:00 AM

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View PostXcammX, on 13 June 2019 - 09:40 AM, said:

Because +100% is addition, it has a plus sign in front of it, the +.

Yes you have to work out the percentage first obviously, I.e 100% of xp = xp.

Hence my O(riginal)xp + xp + xp = 3xp, for an x3, 300% or +200% bonus.

Your getting confused as a x3 = 300% and that is a coefficient.

They are purely multiplied to the base xp.

A +200% is a value (yes, calculated with coefficient) to then be ADDED to the original xp.

+200% = 2*base xp

Total xp = base xp + 2* base xp

Total xp = 3 * base xp

Whereas a 200% or x2 coefficient is MULTIPLIED to the original xp.

200% = 2*base xp

Total xp = 2*base xp
 

 

 

You still don't see where you are getting confused? You don't even comment on the part where yo contradict your own statements.

 

Simply stating something gives x3 xp does not mean that they are added to the bae xp multiplicatively. Yo stating "they are purely multiplied to the base xp" does not make it so and still is unclear. You keep talking about how the multiplier works on the base xp but then you seem confused that the multiplier doesn't work on the base xp but rather on the total xp. Make up your mind perhaps?

 

Yes, +200% is a value. That value is 2. Per definition +200% is the same as 2.

 

You seem to get it in the end, your math is a bit off though.

 

+200% base xp gives you:

Basexp+Basexp*2=3*Basexp

 

200% or 2x works the way you put it when you have one factor to multiply with. The problem is when you have several factors.

 

If you have a x2, a x3, and a x3 you do not calculate them:

 

Basexp*2*3*3=18*Basexp

 

You even state yourself that they are multiplied "to the original xp", so make up your mind.

 

Basexp*(1+(2-1)+(3-1)+(3-1))=6*Basexp

 

This i obviously how it works with pretty much any bonus with very very few exceptions. I still don't understand why this is hard for you?

 

How would a +200% bonus and a x3 bonus work together?

 

Would you get

Basexp*3+100%*Basexp=4*Basexp

or

(Basexp+100%*Basexp)*3=6*Basexp

 

Should be another easy question to answer and motivate, right?

 

The thing is, whether a bonus stacks multiplicative opr additive is purely on the whim of the company. The way you keep claiming that it works does not correlate to real life, so I don't see why you keep pressing the issue. You have even been shown how your math is utterly off and how your argumentation doesn't make sense. You jsut keep saying "But one has a plus sign and one doesn't, therefore the one without a plus sign means it will stack with everything!



XcammX #25 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:15 AM

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“Basexp*2*3*3=18*Basexp”

That is stacking of bonuses.

I’m arguing it would be Basexp (2+3+3) = 8 * Basexp

That is not stacking bonuses.

And x3 and +200% give an effective x5

Assume xp = 1

+200% of 1 is +2

3 times 1 is 3

3 plus 2 is 5.

XcammX #26 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:45 AM

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So for a x3 and an x2

You would calculate it as Basexp * (1+(2-1)+(3-1)) = basexp * (1+1+2) = 4 * basexp

Have a look at photo 4 in the opening post its 5* basexp I.e 2+3

CmdRatScabies #27 Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:04 AM

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View PostXcammX, on 13 June 2019 - 10:45 AM, said:

So for a x3 and an x2

You would calculate it as Basexp * (1+(2-1)+(3-1)) = basexp * (1+1+2) = 4 * basexp

Have a look at photo 4 in the opening post its 5* basexp I.e 2+3

 

As I understand it, the manageable bonus (x3) works differently when used in conjunction with the first win of the day (x2).  It was pointed out by a poster a few weeks back.

HugSeal #28 Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:04 AM

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View PostXcammX, on 13 June 2019 - 10:15 AM, said:

“Basexp*2*3*3=18*Basexp”

That is stacking of bonuses.

I’m arguing it would be Basexp (2+3+3) = 8 * Basexp

That is not stacking bonuses.

And x3 and +200% give an effective x5

Assume xp = 1

+200% of 1 is +2

3 times 1 is 3

3 plus 2 is 5.

 

Wait, you have argued that x2 cannot possibly be added but has to be multiplied through your entire posts and now you suddenly turn around completely?

 

I have no idea how you think Basexp(2+3+3)=8*Basexp makes sense. That is contradicting what you have said previously and simply doesn't work.

 

You are arguing that the base xp should be counted three times rather than one for... some reason? If you have a xN multiplier then you add on (N-1), not N.

 

You are stating that the model for calculating xp is:

 

Basexp*Multiplier+Basexp*%-boost.

 

That fails when you have several multipliers to consider. You seem to claim that when you have a multiplier active then those multipliers will add together and at the same time you will not get the base xp, why would you not get the base xp?

 

You have broken out Basexp from the expression, so you add a one withing the parenthesis to account for the original Basexp.

 

So your model should look like:

Basexp*(1+2+3+3)=9*Basexp

 

I would look at the photo four if it was legible. Luckily I have a screen enhancer and some super zoon software. But seriously, crop your dang photos.

 

It has already been stated that the manageable bonus is an exception and wrongly worded on the results screen. One wonky bonus that gives you extra xp in some cases does not define how the entire bonus system works.

 


Edited by HugSeal, 13 June 2019 - 11:05 AM.


Geno1isme #29 Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:05 AM

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View PostXcammX, on 13 June 2019 - 11:45 AM, said:

Have a look at photo 4 in the opening post its 5* basexp I.e 2+3

 

That's an issue with the managable XP bonus it seems.

eldrak #30 Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:12 AM

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Is all this confusion due to manageable xp being a x4?

 

 



Homer_J #31 Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:29 AM

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View PostXcammX, on 12 June 2019 - 07:14 PM, said:

 

Can someone please explain the maths because I am just not getting it??! Also please help me contact support.

 

 

First in WG's world 2+3 does really equal 4 ....  most of the time.  Live with it because that's how they do things.

 

Right now I've got my microscope out so I can look at your screenshots.

 

In your two examples.

 

The Leo you get 1233 base plus 1233 for the x2 mission plus a 20% bonus from the D-Day celebration so 2713 before applying the x3 manageable bonus.  The total was 5179 so you got 2466 from the x3 manageable bonus (in this case twice the base of 1233).

 

For the AMX you got 1080 for the battle, another 1080 for the first win and another 1080 for the x2 and three times the base 1080 for the x3 manageable bonus.

 

So yes, it does seem there is an inconsistency in the way the x3 manageable bonus has been applied.

10:30 Added after 1 minute

View PostCmdRatScabies, on 12 June 2019 - 11:22 PM, said:

 

I think someone pointed out a few weeks ago that it is when it is combined with the "first win of the day in that tank bonus" but otherwise it just works like all the normal x bonuses.  Seems like they're giving us a bit extra on the first win.

 

That must have been while I was away but whatever, it looks wrong.

 

Found the thread, unfortunately it is sadly lacking in official feedback.


Edited by Homer_J, 13 June 2019 - 12:16 PM.


HugSeal #32 Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:43 AM

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I'm guessing it has to do with their statement:

 

Applicable modifier to XP: We would like you to have an extra XP bonus besides what you earn in battles. Thanks to the WoT PA, you'll be able to apply a ×3 modifier and increase the experience earned in your latest victorious battle. You can use this modifier several times a day, whenever you want, when playing on vehicles of any tier, and research new vehicles and their modules much faster. Also, if you have a ×2 modifier (for example, for the first victory), then you can additionally apply the ×3 bonus and earn immediately ×5 XP in a battle!

 

Where they have given the manageable some extra oomph for some reason.



StinkyStonky #33 Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:58 AM

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Well done to the OP for spotting this inconsistency.

And for persevering on this post against all the posters who initially thought you were just a noob.

 

So in summary :-

 

The "Daily Double" give an extra 100% but is symbolised as " x2 ".

The "Manageable Bonus" gives an extra 300% but is symbolised as " x3 ".

 

That's just a bit crap. 



CmdRatScabies #34 Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:58 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 13 June 2019 - 11:29 AM, said:

That must have been while I was away but whatever, it looks wrong.

 

Found the thread, unfortunately it is sadly lacking in official feedback.

 

Without official feedback it's difficult to say what the intention is but tried it myself after the thread was posted and he does appear to be correct - the manageable bonus does give an additional X1 when it's combined with the first win of the day.  Could be that the manageable bonus it's meant to be a Plus X3 but only works on the first win or that it's supposed to work as a normal X3.  Who knows.
10:59 Added after 1 minute

View PostStinkyStonky, on 13 June 2019 - 11:58 AM, said:

Well done to the OP for spotting this inconsistency.

And for persevering on this post against all the posters who initially thought you were just a noob.

 

It was already spotted 11 May - http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/707750-manageable-xp-multiplier-inconsistent/

Edited by CmdRatScabies, 13 June 2019 - 12:00 PM.


XcammX #35 Posted 13 June 2019 - 12:03 PM

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@HugSeal do you have a link to wherever that statement is? As the mission was advertised as a x2 modifier...

@Homer_J think the x2 acted as +100%, so the x3 worked but then the mission bonus just effectively added the basexp again

Homer_J #36 Posted 13 June 2019 - 12:08 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 13 June 2019 - 11:58 AM, said:

 

The "Manageable Bonus" gives an extra 300% but is symbolised as " x3 ".

Well done on not understanding it yourself, but then if the OP had made his point clear, that the manageable bonus is sometimes +300% and sometimes +200% then the thread would not have gone astray so early.

 

View PostXcammX, on 13 June 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:


@Homer_J think the x2 acted as +100%, so the x3 worked but then the mission bonus just effectively added the basexp again

 

x2 is almost always +100%

 

Until now my understanding of the manageable bonus was that it was always +300%



HugSeal #37 Posted 13 June 2019 - 12:11 PM

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View PostXcammX, on 13 June 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

@HugSeal do you have a link to wherever that statement is? As the mission was advertised as a x2 modifier...

@Homer_J think the x2 acted as +100%, so the x3 worked but then the mission bonus just effectively added the basexp again

 

Here ya go:

https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/1-5-wot-prem-account/



Dorander #38 Posted 13 June 2019 - 12:12 PM

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Stacking of bonuses, whether it was displayed as +Z% or xZ%, has always been calculated the same way, not awarding the base xp again. So a double plus a double was a triple, just like a double plus 100% was a triple. The way it's displayed doesn't matter. Incidentally World of Tanks is far from the only system to handle bonuses this way, else stacking can get quickly out of hand.

 

With the new premium account applicable bonus for some reason they deviated from that, throwing people off, by awarding the base xp again for these five daily missions. You're not the first to get confused or annoyed, the applicable bonus is mathematically inconsistent with how bonuses have worked in the past in addition to not providing a bonus to crew experience unlike other bonuses.



ValkyrionX #39 Posted 13 June 2019 - 12:21 PM

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sorry but after lunch I don't have much to do

 

 



Jauhesammutin #40 Posted 13 June 2019 - 12:39 PM

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With Leo you got 1233 xp, used the 3X multiplier and then got a 1480xp bonus from the mission.

1233*3+1480=5179 XP. So exactly what you got. 

 

With 50 120 you got 1080 XP, got the daily double and then used the 3X multiplier.

1080*3+1080*2=5400 XP. So exactly what you got.

 

The reward XP in the LEO game comes from the mission. So the value is calculated from your base XP and then ADDED to your total.

Look at the free XP you got and it makes more sense.






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