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Discussion: Why not remove the sixth sense perk?


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superdashi #1 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:05 AM

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While driving a new tank with a new crew without sixth sense obviously, i began to think ...

This single perk has a huge impact on the whole gameplay, doesn't it? You are totaly screwed if you don't have it. But what if no one would have it?

First of all, this perk doesn't make any logical sense at all. Sixth sense? Come on! Every commander has a magical feeling when your tank might have been spoted? And that with 100% accuracy? This is ridiculous. But all right, this is a game after all.

But still, it has a huge impact and totaly alters the game. 

- You drive your tank, you get spoted, you retreat. No option for your opponent to let you come closer and then to take you under fire where you can't retreat easily. 
- If you hide, the sixth sense of the enemy can basicaly reaveal your position as they will know where you might be if they get spoted at a certain point.
- If you camp, you noobishly know when you are lit up and can retreat to savety.

I know the outcome of this discussion cause all noobs want that perk cause they can't play. But well, let's still discuss the pro and con's, shall we?
 
09:07 Added after 1 minute
This beeing said, alteration might also be a valid discussion.

F.e. why not have the perk instantly tell you when you are spoted, but not with 100% accuracy? RNG ftw ;-)

pallie_the_artillerist #2 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:11 AM

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Gameplay will become unbearably passive without sixth sense. You use sixth sense to get a feeling for where your enemies are. If you cannot get any sense of the location of your enemies, I would never push into open ground if there are TDs on the enemy team.

nulldev #3 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:14 AM

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View Postpallie_the_artillerist, on 13 June 2019 - 11:11 AM, said:

Gameplay will become unbearably passive without sixth sense. You use sixth sense to get a feeling for where your enemies are. If you cannot get any sense of the location of your enemies, I would never push into open ground if there are TDs on the enemy team.

 

For years there was no sixth sense, we still played.

VeryRisky #4 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:17 AM

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I rely on it too much now so it's hard to play without, but when I first played I managed to play scouts at mid tier without it.  

 

On balance I think it would be good for the game for it to be removed.


Edited by VeryRisky, 13 June 2019 - 10:17 AM.


Steffin #5 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:19 AM

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Tds retreat to safety when their sixth sense triggers.  Scouts have it easier to detect whether it is safe to move forward.  When you remove sixth sense meta will change.  They already arent capable of balancing this game, so why make it even more difficult?

Edited by Steffin, 13 June 2019 - 10:19 AM.


R3dBaron #6 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:24 AM

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Imagine a new player battling with crews without 6th sense...

After being spanked for 30 or 40 games new players just leave to never return.

 

Tier 1 tanks (for each nation) should have commanders trained with 6th sense perk.



KanonenVogel19 #7 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:27 AM

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Interesting suggestion, I think that gameplay would be better without it. As you said, it's quite difficult to make an ambush or simply stay hidden because the enemy already gets a lot of clues due to being spotted by you. On top of that, the skill is also very unrealistic. The reason why it's so important to have 6th sense today is because everyone else has it and not having it thus puts you in a disadvantage. When something becomes too common, it's not longer an option but rather a requirement. Sure, with it removed, players would be a bit more careful, but I can't really say that it would be a bad thing. Having battles that are a bit more slow paced sounds a lot better than having battles where wheeled cars drive around like crazy and spot everything.

Balc0ra #8 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:30 AM

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Removing it outright is def not gonna help anything but get most of your team killed faster. As you said most bad players still need it. It will just make the game less forgiving, and if you want more players to stick around longer. That's not going to help with that. A good player will just play like he is always spotted when firing etc. A bad or new player won't. And just sit there until he gets hit 6 times. Thus removing it will make a huge impact on the game for sure.

 

But... doing as console did and make two variants is a simpler option. One that's available for everyone, even a 75% crew. The difference there vs the skill is that it has a sec longer delay. And it's only a message in the lower right corner vs in the middle of the screen with a sound. Or... give the 6th sense directive out as rewards way more often. Even via merits.



Wintermute_1 #9 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:41 AM

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Games will be much more campy without 6th sense. It'd be way more risky to advance behind soft cover.

SuedKAT #10 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:45 AM

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I wouldn't mind playing a realistic mode of WoT on a map designed for it, but removing sixth sense for random battles would alter the battles in a way I don't find enjoyable at all on the current maps with the current tank imbalance present.

Kartoshkaya #11 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:50 AM

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WoT does the arcade job pretty well. Please don't turn it to an halfassed pseudo realistic like War thunder is.
I'll prefer to see six sense as a perk every commander getting it for free instead, just to make New players more comfortable

Edited by Kartoshkaya, 13 June 2019 - 10:50 AM.


Karasu_Hidesuke #12 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:50 AM

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View PostKanonenVogel19, on 13 June 2019 - 09:27 AM, said:

Interesting suggestion, I think that gameplay would be better without it. As you said, it's quite difficult to make an ambush or simply stay hidden because the enemy already gets a lot of clues due to being spotted by you. On top of that, the skill is also very unrealistic. The reason why it's so important to have 6th sense today is because everyone else has it and not having it thus puts you in a disadvantage. When something becomes too common, it's not longer an option but rather a requirement. Sure, with it removed, players would be a bit more careful, but I can't really say that it would be a bad thing. Having battles that are a bit more slow paced sounds a lot better than having battles where wheeled cars drive around like crazy and spot everything.

 

If they were to remove it they'd have to figure out exactly how the change is going to impact game balance. Mind you, if only for the reason that it gives an advantage to experienced players over new players I am all for removing the perk. There would have to be some form of compensation for this, I mean in terms of game mechanics mostly. Scouting is hugely unreliable for spotting enemy tanks but we don't exactly have infantry scouts or aerial recon in the game.

WhoCares01 #13 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:54 AM

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View PostSteffin, on 13 June 2019 - 10:19 AM, said:

Tds retreat to safety when their sixth sense triggers.  Scouts have it easier to detect whether it is safe to move forward.  When you remove sixth sense meta will change.  They already arent capable of balancing this game, so why make it even more difficult?

 

Until yesterday on T28 and now on T95 I don't have Sixth Sense, and I don't retreat when the pinging starts!

CHAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGEEE!!!!!!!!!! :izmena::izmena::izmena::izmena:

Admittedly, it's just these assault TDs that are supposed to be always spotted anyway, where it's a remotely viable option to skip it in favour of view range (BIA+situational awareness+recon on commander) and repair skills.

 

Then again, I seem to remember that in some XMas video they hinted on Sixth Sense for all commanders as default skill for free, no?!


Edited by WhoCares01, 13 June 2019 - 10:55 AM.


Anymn #14 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:56 AM

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I've always advocated the removal of sixth-sense altogether. It will make gameplay much more interesting. Why?

  • Scouting makes it worth it, as campers don't know when to retreat.
  • You can surprise people by being sneaky as they get no warning that you are close.
  • It allows for easier flanking because of the above.
  • Arty is easier to kill as they have no idea when they are spotted.
  • Slow aiming tanks will be much more playable when using camo correctly.
  • You can aim on weakspots if undetected and thus can shoot less gold ammo.
  • In a 8 vs 2 situations, the losing team has a much higher comeback chance when they skillfully remain undetected (as the enemy can drive past you at 51m without knowing you was sitting next to him).
  • It's more exciting to play, as you're constantly wondering whether you are spotted or not.

 

In summary, the meta will switch from a tactical, snapshot, gold-ammo shooting meta where number of tanks decide which team wins, towards a more strategical, skillful meta where positioning will be decisive. Most likely for this reason, it will never happen. :(

 

Edit: I think it would be a very fun idea to test during an event on the live server.


Edited by Anymn, 13 June 2019 - 11:02 AM.


Geno1isme #15 Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:02 AM

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Yeah, that will definitely improve the gameplay when the only indicator of being spotted are the incoming shells *sarcasm off*

The delay between getting spotted and alarm going off, and the alarm only being triggered when changing from unspotted->spotted (and not when staying spotted) already makes it unreliable enough.


Edited by Geno1isme, 13 June 2019 - 11:02 AM.


Steffin #16 Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:04 AM

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View PostAnymn, on 13 June 2019 - 10:56 AM, said:

  • In a 8 vs 2 situations, the losing team has a much higher comeback change when they skillfully remain undetected (as the enemy can drive past you at 51m without knowing you was sitting next to him).

 

This also means that it is more rewarding to base camp with a td.  As you will get a higher chance of winning compared to how it is now.

onderschepper #17 Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:10 AM

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I do not use it, due to playing a forward role in mobile mediums with angled armour that excels whilst in motion, I would likely hear a ricochet on the hull one or two seconds before the sixth sense alarm sounds.

 

For me it would be: "I'm spotted, no [explicit deleted], tell me something I don't know - like where they are!!!!"

 

I do not believe that the removal would have adverse effects on the game play, instead people would have to think for themselves rather than having a machine do it for them.



Anymn #18 Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:12 AM

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View PostSteffin, on 13 June 2019 - 11:04 AM, said:

 

This also means that it is more rewarding to base camp with a td.  As you will get a higher chance of winning compared to how it is now.

 

Anything that can attribute towards less 15-0 situations is welcome to me.

 

By the way, a good example of no-6th-sense battles, was the 0.7.0 classic April's fool server. I've had very interesting battles on it, where I outspotted/played a lot of TD's in an IS. 

 

I don't think camping TD's will be a very big issue (exceptions for the clearly OP ones such as T67 or E-25), because campers also are a lot more vulnerable. No sixth-sense means slower reaction times for them, as they get no signal when to wake up/retreat.



malachi6 #19 Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:14 AM

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Sixth sense should be a zero point skill for all commanders that are 100% Rather than remove it, give it to everybody for very minimum effort.  It would even help monetize the game.

 

E25 does not lose its camo when shooting making it, even more, OP in the proposed new paradigm.


Edited by malachi6, 13 June 2019 - 11:16 AM.


Jauhesammutin #20 Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:34 AM

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View PostAnymn, on 13 June 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:

I've always advocated the removal of sixth-sense altogether. It will make gameplay much more interesting. Why?

  • Scouting makes it worth it, as campers don't know when to retreat. The scout doesn't know when he's spotted either so TD's will just kill it. Passive spotter will always win against an active scout since the scout can't find out the enemy's location with 6th sense.
  • You can surprise people by being sneaky as they get no warning that you are close. If you mean camp even more by "surprise" then yeah. People will camp even more behind bushes and once anyone steps out in the open it will get wrecked.
  • It allows for easier flanking because of the above. It's the exact opposite because of the above. You can't test if the flank is clear, you just have to drive and either get shot or survive.
  • Arty is easier to kill as they have no idea when they are spotted. This is true, yet I don't see any real difference. For most of the tanks they are already oneshots and getting shot vs 3s delay is basically the game. If you can't kill them in one shot regardless of 6th sense they are going to know they are spotted when you shoot them.
  • Slow aiming tanks will be much more playable when using camo correctly. How is this different from the current state?
  • You can aim on weakspots if undetected and thus can shoot less gold ammo. How is this different from the current state?
  • In a 8 vs 2 situations, the losing team has a much higher comeback chance when they skillfully remain undetected (as the enemy can drive past you at 51m without knowing you was sitting next to him). This is true. But I don't see how this would be a good thing. If your team is winning 8v2 you are supposed to win. Every game drawing within 15 minutes is not fun for anyone.
  • It's more exciting to play, as you're constantly wondering whether you are spotted or not. It is equally exciting to play when you get spotted and try to figure out who is spotting you and where he is.

 

In summary, the meta will switch from a tactical, snapshot, gold-ammo shooting meta where number of tanks decide which team wins, towards a more strategical, skillful meta where positioning will be decisive. Most likely for this reason, it will never happen. :(

 

Edit: I think it would be a very fun idea to test during an event on the live server.

Comments in bold.

Every commander should have a free 6th sense. Crew skills need an overhaul all together.

Removing 6th sense would make the game more campy. It would remove the ability to test enemy locations with 6th sense. 






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