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Will it increase or decrease gold spam in randoms?


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TheOnlyMagician #1 Posted 13 June 2019 - 09:08 PM

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How will removing armor penetration indicator affect gold spam and other gameplay aspects of WOT?

I say it will make game more challenging and in a good way, don't know about gold spam.

What do you think?



SuedKAT #2 Posted 13 June 2019 - 09:36 PM

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People don't shoot premium ammo after having spent a while going over the tank they are aiming at with the penetration indicator only to find that they have no chance to pen, they do it since WG have spent years teaching it's player-base that if you should have a chance in the corridor maps, removal of weakspot and buffing of armor layouts, HT meta you need to fire premium ammo. Removing the penetration indicator won't stop people shooting premium ammo at targets they otherwise wouldn't be able to pen, if anything it might increase it a little but I don't think the armor penetration indicator is used that much anyhow since it only take raw armor values into consideration and not angles etc.

 

Bringing back weakspots and thus giving people an incentive to try and hit those with standard ammo, reworking maps to not be all frontal engagements as well as removal of sniper nests and a significant balance overhaul is what will make people use less premium ammo, however that basically means going back to the times when the KV-4 was considered well armored and we didn't have stupid stuff like the VK 100.01 (P), Defenders and Jap HT's.


Edited by SuedKAT, 13 June 2019 - 09:56 PM.


TheOnlyMagician #3 Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:19 PM

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View PostSuedKAT, on 13 June 2019 - 09:36 PM, said:

since it only take raw armor values into consideration and not angles etc.

 

It does considers angles.



SuedKAT #4 Posted 14 June 2019 - 12:45 AM

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View PostTheOnlyMagician, on 13 June 2019 - 10:19 PM, said:

 

It does considers angles.

 

To quote the wiki:

 

View PostWiki, said:

Penetration Indicator

The penetration indicator is an option to the gun marker in your aiming reticle - enabled by default - which uses an easy colour code to help you evaluate whether you will be able to penetrate the target's armour in the location you are aiming at and with the shell you have loaded. A red indicator tells you that you will be unable to penetrate the targeted tank in that location, a yellow indicator means that the target's armour thickness lies within the -/+25% range of your penetration rating, while a green indicator means that your shell's penetration rating will exceed the target's armour thickness in all cases.

While the penetration indicator is an invaluable tool in discovering a target's weak spots, always be aware of its limitations. It is a simple comparison of your penetration rating versus the target's armour thickness along the normal at the aim point and does not take into account the impact angle, so even with a green penetration indicator your shot may still ricochet or fail to penetrate the target's effective armour thickness. Also, because of dispersion affecting every shot you take, you may not actually hit the weak spot you were aiming for.

 

If you also throw some spaced armor into that equation you have a tool that's fairly useless and something no one should rely on and only use in worst case scenario at best.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #5 Posted 14 June 2019 - 02:03 AM

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Increase. 

Patu #6 Posted 14 June 2019 - 02:08 AM

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View PostSuedKAT, on 13 June 2019 - 11:45 PM, said:

 

To quote the wiki:

 

 

If you also throw some spaced armor into that equation you have a tool that's fairly useless and something no one should rely on and only use in worst case scenario at best.

 

I don't think the wiki is up to date. That is indeed how it used to work, but a couple of years ago it was kinda fixed. Switch it on and aim on an S1 with low calibre weapon. It will show red even though you would be able to easily penetrate it if the angle was not taken into account. If you stand above it, it will show green correctly. It's still not perfect, but it does work fairly well.

Edited by Patu, 14 June 2019 - 02:08 AM.


SilentFear #7 Posted 14 June 2019 - 02:12 AM

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View PostSuedKAT, on 13 June 2019 - 11:45 PM, said:

 

To quote the wiki:

 

 

If you also throw some spaced armor into that equation you have a tool that's fairly useless and something no one should rely on and only use in worst case scenario at best.

 

Originally the aim indicator indeed didnt take angle and spaced armor under consideration.

But one of the patches ago this changed. Now if its green - it will pen.



SuedKAT #8 Posted 14 June 2019 - 04:49 AM

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View PostPatu, on 14 June 2019 - 02:08 AM, said:

 

I don't think the wiki is up to date. That is indeed how it used to work, but a couple of years ago it was kinda fixed. Switch it on and aim on an S1 with low calibre weapon. It will show red even though you would be able to easily penetrate it if the angle was not taken into account. If you stand above it, it will show green correctly. It's still not perfect, but it does work fairly well.

 

View PostSilentFear, on 14 June 2019 - 02:12 AM, said:

 

Originally the aim indicator indeed didnt take angle and spaced armor under consideration.

But one of the patches ago this changed. Now if its green - it will pen.

 

I see, well then it at least got a use now a days, however I still doubt it's in use much, at least in it's vanilla form, I do recall a mod I used in the past that made the indicator a lot larger. 

vasilinhorulezz #9 Posted 14 June 2019 - 12:43 PM

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View PostSuedKAT, on 14 June 2019 - 12:45 AM, said:

 

To quote the wiki:

 

 

If you also throw some spaced armor into that equation you have a tool that's fairly useless and something no one should rely on and only use in worst case scenario at best.

Wiki is out-dated. It does show effective armor, I don't remember since which patch though.

11:44 Added after 0 minutes
To OP, I don't think it's gonna reduce it, people shoot standard only once, most of the time. Second shot is special.

Laur_Balaur_XD #10 Posted 14 June 2019 - 12:51 PM

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View PostTheOnlyMagician, on 13 June 2019 - 08:08 PM, said:

How will removing armor penetration indicator affect gold spam and other gameplay aspects of WOT?

I say it will make game more challenging and in a good way, don't know about gold spam.

What do you think?

 

I think it would increase the gold spam, since most of the players have no idea about the armor layout of many tanks. 

I would like pen indicator to be removed but they are really planning that or is just your idea?

Also i think in first day we would have mods that would show pen.



gav00 #11 Posted 14 June 2019 - 01:01 PM

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View PostPatu, on 14 June 2019 - 02:08 AM, said:

 

I don't think the wiki is up to date. That is indeed how it used to work, but a couple of years ago it was kinda fixed. Switch it on and aim on an S1 with low calibre weapon. It will show red even though you would be able to easily penetrate it if the angle was not taken into account. If you stand above it, it will show green correctly. It's still not perfect, but it does work fairly well.

 

Then why does it show a red indicator when using a derpy gun with a high shell arc? The trajectory means the shell will hit the plate pretty square and pen, but the indicator dosen't know that. The indicator appears to only assume you're shooting on a flat trajectory. 

Kartoshkaya #12 Posted 14 June 2019 - 03:21 PM

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View Postgav00, on 14 June 2019 - 01:01 PM, said:

 

Then why does it show a red indicator when using a derpy gun with a high shell arc? The trajectory means the shell will hit the plate pretty square and pen, but the indicator dosen't know that. The indicator appears to only assume you're shooting on a flat trajectory. 

 

Derp guns tends to shoot HE wich have low Pen, so you got red indicators pretty much all the time.

 

Also, it's hard to test what you claim just because the angle difference is small, you'll have to shoot from very far to get a good angle, and guess what? Derp guns are pretty bad at shooting at long range, so in the end it doesn't even matter if your claims are right or wrong.



NoobySkooby #13 Posted 14 June 2019 - 04:13 PM

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Premium ammo is the only way to go, was when I used to play this crap is now if I ever get back, either that or HE, I don't care

gav00 #14 Posted 14 June 2019 - 10:20 PM

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View PostKartoshkaya, on 14 June 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:

 

Derp guns tends to shoot HE wich have low Pen, so you got red indicators pretty much all the time.

 

Also, it's hard to test what you claim just because the angle difference is small, you'll have to shoot from very far to get a good angle, and guess what? Derp guns are pretty bad at shooting at long range, so in the end it doesn't even matter if your claims are right or wrong.

 

No, im talking about AP shot. And it's not hard to get a high arc

Balc0ra #15 Posted 14 June 2019 - 10:36 PM

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View PostTheOnlyMagician, on 13 June 2019 - 09:08 PM, said:

How will removing armor penetration indicator affect gold spam and other gameplay aspects of WOT?

I say it will make game more challenging and in a good way, don't know about gold spam.

What do you think?

 

You played randoms right? Seen the people you play with? How do you think it will affect it? It will def increase it. As if they don't know. They will press 2 just to be sure. If they ever make a hardcore or historical mode like WT with no IFF and hidden hud elements etc. Then sure, that would work to make the game more challenging. But since WG's general idea is not just to focus on hardcore players alone. Well.


Edited by Balc0ra, 14 June 2019 - 10:37 PM.


Fighto #16 Posted 15 June 2019 - 09:49 AM

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I'm not sure as most of the dopes in randoms have no mini map so i'm sure they noticed the pen indicator ....

Solstad1069 #17 Posted 15 June 2019 - 10:49 AM

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View PostNoobySkooby, on 14 June 2019 - 04:13 PM, said:

Premium ammo is the only way to go, was when I used to play this crap is now if I ever get back, either that or HE, I don't care

 

Youre busy ruining peoples game in your new OP premium CVs in WOWS, thats kind of the reason i dont play that crap anymore. (just saying)

UrQuan #18 Posted 15 June 2019 - 11:13 AM

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Regarding pen indicator: it keeps armor angles in mind for armor & chance to pen. However it does not take shell arcs in account. Note that the pen indicator still acts funky with spaced armor.

And removing it would promote prem spam imo. Because (sensible) weakspots aren't a thing anymore. Before the pen indicator got introduced, most armored tanks had sensible weakspots (driver visor & machinegun ports by example), so you could aim for those to pen without prem ammo.

Not always easy to hit, but you knew where to aim to get a chance to pen that armored HT frontally with standard ammo.

 

People's knowledge about armor mechanics & stuff ingame is horrible tho. I see alot of people thinking: *My standard pen didn't go through, lets shoot prem at it!* and fail to pen because it the armor is just too thick; too angled or too spaced to ever make it through.

 

Lets shoot HEAT at that very angled Maus! 

 






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