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Crew skills rework - Suggestions?


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mantazzo #1 Posted 19 June 2019 - 12:55 PM

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Since I have heard crew skills are a thing in progress (like the premium ammo rework, lol), I was just thinking how should Crew Skills be reworked.

But first of all, what skills you'd like to be kept, and what new skills would you like to see? As a reminder, there are 5 crew types - Commander, Driver, Gunner, Loader and Radioman.

 

Personal opinions (note: I may not remember some current skills, as some of the skills in the game are rarely used)

Commander should have 6th sense by default, but he should get a new crew related skill (maybe sort of Jack of All Trades, but increases crew efficiency respecting your remaining HP (with up to 5-10% boost of stats depending on how much HP you have left, as in less HP - bigger boost; would need 100% training). Not sure, open to ideas here.

Driver should keep Smooth Ride and Off-Road driving skills. A new skill could be introduced that increase the power efficiency by a few percent (like a "turbo boost", increase your power-to-weight ratio by "boosting the engine" by a few %; skill efficiency improved over time (and not only at 100%).

Gunner should keep the "Smooth Aim" skill for sure, but there could be a skill which trained to 100% could reduce your "low RNG" chance (as in, reduce bottom RNG to maybe 15% while keeping "top RNG as 25%, so for example a 400 dmg average shot would hit for minimum 340 instead of minimum 300, while maximum would still remain 500). Not sure about what skills Gunner should use.

Loader should keep the Safe Stowage skill, but instead of "creating a chance to switch ammo instantly", the skill could change so that when skill is trained to 100% if you switch to a different shell the reload time is reduced by 25% for example. (I wanted to go for 50%, but that might be too OP)

Radioman should keep Situational Awareness, but he could also get something like Recon, which would increase Max Viewrange too. Maybe something else.

 

These are just my ideas. Do you agree? What would you like to see as a new perk? Which ones would you like to keep? (I think we all want to keep our current perks, lol)



Jauhesammutin #2 Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:03 PM

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Every skill that is "mandatory" like 6th sense and BIA should be removed.

Each crew member should have their own specialization skill and 1 common skill. So for example view range for commander and then camo for the whole crew.

 

I find it stupid to have multiple skills which all increase the tank's performance by small amount. Play longer and your tank magically gets better. Being able to only use 2 skills would mean that you have to decide what skills to use.



seXikanac #3 Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:14 PM

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View PostJauhesammutin, on 19 June 2019 - 01:03 PM, said:

Every skill that is "mandatory" like 6th sense and BIA should be removed.

Each crew member should have their own specialization skill and 1 common skill. So for example view range for commander and then camo for the whole crew.

 

I find it stupid to have multiple skills which all increase the tank's performance by small amount. Play longer and your tank magically gets better. Being able to only use 2 skills would mean that you have to decide what skills to use.

 

Totally agree. 6th sense and BIA should be removed

FrantisekBascovansky #4 Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:15 PM

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6th sense should be 100% for every commander without grinding/freeexp.

 

KEEP

BIA, repairs, camo, firefighting, mentor, recon, snap shot, clutch braking, offroad driving, smooth ride, controlled impact, sit. awareness, preventive maintenance, safe stowage.

 

REWORK

Jack of all trades, signal boosting, deadeye, adrenaline rush, intuition.

 

REMOVE/useless

Armorer, relaying, eagle eye, designated target, call for vengeance.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #5 Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:18 PM

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I'd like to see a more simplified and effective approach to crew skills. Not less work for the same thing but more logical and efficient system. A lot of the current skills do very little regarding gameplay and yet the exponential XP increase doesn't differentiate between what the skill/perk actually do, only the order of training them.

 

The developers mentioned the idea of having one crew member per tank to simplify the process and the requirements. That'd be similar to the captain in warships but i don't know how will that work out.



Jumping_Turtle #6 Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:28 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 19 June 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

That'd be similar to the captain in warships but i don't know how will that work out.

 

I think that will be hard. Could imho only work when you do that from the start like in Warships. There are so many players who invested a lot of time in their crews. How are they going to do that ?

 

I for one, play a lot and because of that I decided a few years ago that almost all of my tanks will have a dedicated crew. I have plenty of crews working on their 5th and 6th skill and in my 132 tech tree tanks there is not a simgle crew lower than 2 skills.

I have 767 crew members at the moment. Will every commander stay and ge the xp from the other crewmembers who will vanish after the rework.

WIll I get 767 commanders ?



dan_dix #7 Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:35 PM

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I also proposed a similar system where:

  • Each crew member gets by default a number of full skills/perks from the start, based on the tier they are in. For instance, tier 2 gets 1 extra skill, tier 5 2 skills, tier 7 gets 3 skills, tier 10 5 skills, etc. This way all players have similar crews and new players are not at a disadvantage. This still leaves the option to "play" with the skill choice - i.e. one may chose more camo vs more mobility or accuracy to provide a variation of gameplay
  • There is no additional skill training or accumulation more than the skills available at the given level. Thus there is no more "skills" or "perks" distinction
  • Skills can be "reset" to a new tank at no cost when moving to a upper tier
  • Skills can be "reset" at any time at no cost with a cooldown penalty
 

This would work with the current set of skills, even then some of them may be improved, such as adding more skills for the loader, commander (like in the console version) and dropping useless skills like Eagle Eye, Call for Vengeance, etc

 

WG would possibly lose some income that way from the crew retraining fees - but I doubt this brings them too much. WG could make gaining XP harder on free accounts and increase the gains for premium account and premium tanks to compensate for this loss



XxKuzkina_MatxX #8 Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:39 PM

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View PostJumping_Turtle, on 19 June 2019 - 04:28 PM, said:

I think that will be hard. Could imho only work when you do that from the start like in Warships. There are so many players who invested a lot of time in their crews. How are they going to do that ?

 

I for one, play a lot and because of that I decided a few years ago that almost all of my tanks will have a dedicated crew. I have plenty of crews working on their 5th and 6th skill and in my 132 tech tree tanks there is not a single crew lower than 2 skills.

 

I have 767 crew members at the moment. Will every commander stay and get the xp from the other crew members who will vanish after the rework.

will I get 767 commanders ?

 

That was also pointed out in the Q&A, that there will be problems compensating players for the XP/gold invested in crew skills. I don't play warships so i don't exactly know the specifics of how the captain's skills work. It's probably hard to implement for the reasons you mentioned yet crew skills need some streamlining.



WhoCares01 #9 Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:43 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 19 June 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

...

The developers mentioned the idea of having one crew member per tank to simplify the process and the requirements. That'd be similar to the captain in warships but i don't know how will that work out.

That would be a godsend - you have individual MT/HT/LT/TD crews with some generic and some specialized skills, the crew collectively unlocks skills, but you don't have the mess with crewmembers that suddenly have to fulfill multiple roles and that maybe even changing as they progress through the tech tree with 2-/3-/4-/5-/6-men crews.

But as others already have mentioned, it's hard to imagine how they do the transition from the current system, considering the (mostly time-) investments in the crews that many have done over the years.

 

My suspicion is, that the crew books might be (the start of?) an alternative approach after WG has realized how hard a complete rework might be…

 

For the poor souls that never laid hands on WoWs:

- as he levels up, the Captain accumulates points, up to 19 in total,

- with these points he can unlock skills,

- there are 1-point/2-point/…/5-point skills,

- you need to have a 1-point skill unlocked, to get access to the 2-point skills, a.s.o.

- you can have multiple skills of the same level, e.g. a captain with 1x1, 1x2, 1x3, 2x4 , 1x5 is possible.


Edited by WhoCares01, 19 June 2019 - 02:00 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #10 Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:53 PM

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View PostWhoCares01, on 19 June 2019 - 04:43 PM, said:

That would be a godsend - you have individual MT/HT/LT/TD crews with some generic and some specialized skills, the crew collectively unlocks skills, but you don't have the mess with crewmembers that suddenly have to fulfill multiple roles and that maybe even changing as they progress through the tech tree with 2-/3-/4-/5-/6-men crews.

But as others already have mentioned, it's hard to imagine how they do the transition from the current system, considering the (mostly time-) investments in the crews that many have done over the years.

 

My suspicion is, that the crew books might be (the start of?) an alternative approach after WG has realized how hard a complete rework might be...

 

Very good points and the crew books could be the band aid WG was looking for. But i think that's the lazy approach to streamlining the tech tree in terms of crews compatibility and even modules.



Jumping_Turtle #11 Posted 19 June 2019 - 02:39 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 19 June 2019 - 01:39 PM, said:

 

That was also pointed out in the Q&A, that there will be problems compensating players for the XP/gold invested in crew skills.

 

I even forgot about the gold. I never play with 50 or 75% crew. Always just spend gold to get them to 100% at the start. So that would mean 767 crewmembers x 200 gold 153.400 gold refund ... I can see why they have problems with that.

WhoCares01 #12 Posted 19 June 2019 - 03:03 PM

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Not to forget the BiA crews you can buy with certain tanks...

tajj7 #13 Posted 19 June 2019 - 03:27 PM

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Everyone gets sixth sense by default would be a good start.

 

I'd then look at how Warships have done captain skills and advance from there.

 

I'd like there to be more class specific special skills, and more options to set up crew/tanks for a certain style of play, that buffs you more than current skills do, but has more drawbacks as well, so it gives players more options to come up with interesting set ups that create more variety in gameplay. 

 

Rather than the current system where its basically a load of skills that are default and others where they are close to pointless and never used (similar with equipment).

 

I'd also reckon you need to massively scale down what it needs to get a very good crew, again similar to warships.

 

That should open you up to having crews/commanders with more special skills and bonuses that you could earn from missions etc. 

 

How you compensate people though I don't know, that could be super messy. 

 

Oh and yeah I think it would be good to have a crew maybe just represented by a commander like WOWs. Which I think would help them open up more interesting skills, rather than needing to come up with skills for 4-5 difference types of crew. 


Edited by tajj7, 19 June 2019 - 03:29 PM.


Homer_J #14 Posted 19 June 2019 - 04:09 PM

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I have a suggestion.

 

Leave the crew skills alone.

 

Thx bye.



Geno1isme #15 Posted 19 June 2019 - 04:16 PM

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a) add "crew-xp" as a global resource (note: this is independent of the current crew-xp system)

b) scrap the current crew system completely

c) existing crews are reimbursed with crew-xp based on their training level (TBD), with 0-skills treated special

d) implement a completely new crew system from scratch

 

As for how the new system should look like, I'd go with a completely new approach of categorized multi-level skills. Those would be grouped into

1) "mastery skills" - replacing the current fixed tank+role specializations and primary skill level: Instead of being "commander for T32" a crewman could learn

"class mastery - heavies"

"tank mastery - T32"

"role mastery - commander"

independent of each other, each available in different tiers (e.g. basic/advanced/expert). Actual effectiveness would no longer be based on primary skill+modifiers but computed from the combination of mastery skills relevant for the current position: 50% base skill, +10/20/25% for each relevant mastery skill (up to 125%). The key difference is that a single crewman could learn multiple mastery skills of the same type (with appropriately increasing costs of course, so you can't just create a single universal uber crew)

New crewmen would get one basic skill of each type (class/tank/role) free (optional: get advanced skills when recruiting with gold right away)

 

2) "attribute traits" - basically skills to improve specific tank stats like viewrange or camo by a specific amount (I've always found it strange that the camo value of a tank depends so extremely on the crew, that should be toned down massively)

 

3) "personal skills" - stuff like repairs, firefighting and all other actual "skills" you want to keep/add. Most of the role-specific skills would probably be scrapped though.

 

Learning/Upgrading/Replacing/Unlearning skills would require specific amounts of crew-xp (the global currency), and all skills would be yes/no (no more percentages). Optionally allow replacing mastery skills also with gold.

 

The current Boost-with-Free-XP mechanic would be replaced by a direct Free-XP->Crew-XP conversion feature.

Crew-books would simply be replaced by direct amounts of Crew-XP.

 

 

Yes, it's gonna be messy when everyone has to completely redo all their crews, but then that's probably the only way if you want to make real changes.



Jumping_Turtle #16 Posted 19 June 2019 - 04:51 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 19 June 2019 - 04:09 PM, said:

I have a suggestion.

 

Leave the crew skills alone.

 

Thx bye.

 

Agree

_6i6_ #17 Posted 19 June 2019 - 05:06 PM

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Well one thing they could change is the fact that when you retrain a crew from a Tier 6 tank for example to your newly researched Tier 7, it would make sense for that crew to still be able to perform in the previous tank they were trained for, without the need to be retrained for it.

Or make that with some limitations(e.g 3 tanks per line maximum which this certain crew can operate without the need to re-train -  The limit being that crew must be exactly the same and must have been trained to each vehicle you select).

In the case where you wanted to change one member of the crew, there'd be some kind of penalty for credits/gold etc.

 



mantazzo #18 Posted 19 June 2019 - 09:50 PM

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Interesting opinions so far.

Personally, I wouldn't reduce the number of crew to 1 (like in Warships) - you see, Ships are operated by a big number of people, so just 1 Commander makes more sense there, while the tank is usually controlled by only 5-6 crew members (depending on the tank, it could be even just 2), so it makes more sense to keep the multi-crews here.



Tyrrenus #19 Posted 19 June 2019 - 10:25 PM

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May I be extreme? With the exception of Sixth Sense, I would eliminate all skills and perks.

You start with a “green” 50% crew: the commander doesn’t spot well, the loader is slow, the driver takes a few seconds before reacting to orders, the gunner has a bad aim.... little things that make sense in an inexperienced crew.

But once the crew reaches 100%, your tank too reaches the best possible stats/performance. And that’s it. What’s left is YOUR skill as a player.

But then I love simplicity...

 

 



Xandania #20 Posted 19 June 2019 - 11:07 PM

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I'd be happy if we finally got the xp-reset for arty crews that would have been helpful when it lost AP-shells. Alternatively the additional damage to modules could be extended to HE-shells ;P




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