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How can heavy tanks protect themselves from arty. Map design is flawed.


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Xsarafahrer #1 Posted 20 June 2019 - 11:50 AM

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Heavy tanks are at the mercy of artillery.  How are you supposed to protect yourself when they haven implemented high rocks or buildings at the key positions.   There is nothing you can do. Take prokarovka as an example.

 

We need more options to hide on the battlefield from arty shells.



Homer_J #2 Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:09 PM

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You have armour, use it.

 

First trick is to face the arty, obvious but I see so many people who don't from my satellite view.  Your thicker frontal armour will mean you take less damage than taking a side shot. 

 

Use the backs of hills, arty has difficulty hitting on slopes running directly away.

 

It isn't a matter of making yourself impossible to hit, just make yourself a less juicy target than the next guy.



I_Gutmensch_Deluxe_I #3 Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:16 PM

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I usually camp with TDs if the Enemy has Arta.
Don't get spotted = dont get Shot.
I dont give my sweet HP to a dirty Clicker, simple as that.

Chuwt #4 Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:17 PM

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Despite the paranoid rantings of artillery haters, artillery do not usually "target" anybody specifically...they shoot at what they can see, and have a chance to hit.
If presented with multiple targets, they will tend to go for what they see as the biggest threat, or the easy target...one who is stationary or moving slowly/predictably.

So...try not to be spotted early, if you cannot avoid it, make yourself an intermitant spot, not a constant one.
Use cover.
Move.

Chances are, an easier target will present itself than you...if it does not, it is because YOU have made yourself the easy target...

 



FrantisekBascovansky #5 Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:20 PM

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Are you sure...? When I play arty, I often don't even bother to shoot heavies because of 100dmg rolls (or even bounces!) with 40s reload.

On the other hand, how are you supposed to protect yourself in SPG once you are spotted by heavy tank? There is nothing you can do. No armor, no camo, no ROF, no pen, no alpha. REEEEEEEEEE.

L2P issue.



Balc0ra #6 Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:23 PM

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View PostXsarafahrer, on 20 June 2019 - 11:50 AM, said:

 Take prokarovka as an example.

 

Even with no arty, that's not a map made for large slow super heavies in mind. And once spotted, you get focus regardless as there is not much cover for shells going straight, as well as in an arch.

 

Just like some maps don't work to well for arty, you have maps that favor other classes. Like TD's and support meds on Prokarovka. While others favor the slow with armor, not the agile with mobility like some urban maps. That at the same time is not 100% arty immune, but offers more blind zones then the map you mentioned. 



Homer_J #7 Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:23 PM

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View PostI_Gutmensch_Deluxe_I, on 20 June 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

I usually camp with TDs if the Enemy has Arta.
Don't get spotted = dont get Shot.
I dont give my sweet HP to a dirty Clicker, simple as that.

 

You will still get artied, all you are doing is delaying the inevitable and helping your team lose.

JCD3nton #8 Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:27 PM

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You cant hide from arty. Arty will shoot you no matter what you do. Sometimes it will miss you and still do 500 damage. Arty shouldn't be in the game.

I_Gutmensch_Deluxe_I #9 Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:37 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 20 June 2019 - 01:23 PM, said:

 

You will still get artied, all you are doing is delaying the inevitable and helping your team lose.

 

Yeah, because Arta is just shooting Campers, right?

Arta cant shoot who isnt spotted... I know what I'm talking about^^

I'd rather lose than get shot at by Arta. But i think my WR isnt that bad ;)



Miljac72 #10 Posted 20 June 2019 - 01:34 PM

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View PostXsarafahrer, on 20 June 2019 - 10:50 AM, said:

Heavy tanks are at the mercy of artillery.  How are you supposed to protect yourself when they haven implemented high rocks or buildings at the key positions.   There is nothing you can do. Take prokarovka as an example.

 

We need more options to hide on the battlefield from arty shells.

 

You have selected prokarovka as HT?

L2p.



Homer_J #11 Posted 20 June 2019 - 02:45 PM

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View PostI_Gutmensch_Deluxe_I, on 20 June 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

 

Yeah, because Arta is just shooting Campers, right?

Arta cant shoot who isnt spotted... I know what I'm talking about^^

I'd rather lose than get shot at by Arta. But i think my WR isnt that bad ;)

 

Sit at the back and you will get spotted and shot by arty eventually.

 

And no your win rate isn't that bad which is why I don't believe your advice, which as an arty player I can say is very bad.



Sirebellus #12 Posted 20 June 2019 - 04:05 PM

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View PostMiljac72, on 20 June 2019 - 01:34 PM, said:

 

You have selected prokarovka as HT?

L2p.

 

If you are going to spend a session grinding HT's then use you map block to not play Prokhorovka (and Malinovka or Steppes if you have a Prem account)
You can change the map(s) you have blocked to avoid maps that aren't good for your tank.

 

It does take some prior thought as you can't change blocked maps more than once every three or four hours, but you don't have to stick to blocking Ensk and Paris for ever.
(they are the two I have blocked, but if you want to play arty safe heavies then they are probably better maps to play than Prok / Campinovka / Steppes)



Homer_J #13 Posted 20 June 2019 - 05:02 PM

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View PostSirebellus, on 20 June 2019 - 04:05 PM, said:

 

If you are going to spend a session grinding HT's then use you map block to not play Prokhorovka 

But I like playing Porkerover with heavy tanks.



Xandania #14 Posted 20 June 2019 - 05:16 PM

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Standard ways for heavies to not get hit by arty very often:

 

- be hidden (not a good option except as bottom tier in +2 battles or as french autolaoder heavy)

- keep near rocks and buildings - cover is your friend not only against brawlers and snipers

- be on grounds declining away from the arty - many shells will go right past you

- keep moving and wiggling - arty sells have a travel time of between one to several seconds.

- don't go straight lines over long distances if you are spotted - arty can preaim

- don't drive in groups or hug corners with others - prime targets for arty is groups

- don't be the only one spotted - if no other target is visible arty will even shoot a Maus with Heavy Spallliner

- use heavy Spallliners - while they only help if the arty shell does not pen you, it reduces stun and splash damage

- if you go to any standard position at the beginning of the battle, you will most probably be shot by arty preaiming there, so be careful and don't be close to others or move erraticly and swiftly after being spotted - that might help

- don't stand in the standard bushes where every game someone stands - arty will blindshoot those regularly if no target is visible or targetable

- take notice if your arty paints a target - it will be shot with high probability (unless a better target pops up)

 



HassenderZerhacker #15 Posted 20 June 2019 - 05:26 PM

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View PostXandania, on 20 June 2019 - 05:16 PM, said:

Standard ways for heavies to not get hit by arty very often:

 

- be hidden (not a good option except as bottom tier in +2 battles or as french autolaoder heavy)

- keep near rocks and buildings - cover is your friend not only against brawlers and snipers

- be on grounds declining away from the arty - many shells will go right past you

- keep moving and wiggling - arty sells have a travel time of between one to several seconds.

- don't go straight lines over long distances if you are spotted - arty can preaim

- don't drive in groups or hug corners with others - prime targets for arty is groups

- don't be the only one spotted - if no other target is visible arty will even shoot a Maus with Heavy Spallliner

- use heavy Spallliners - while they only help if the arty shell does not pen you, it reduces stun and splash damage

- if you go to any standard position at the beginning of the battle, you will most probably be shot by arty preaiming there, so be careful and don't be close to others or move erraticly and swiftly after being spotted - that might help

- don't stand in the standard bushes where every game someone stands - arty will blindshoot those regularly if no target is visible or targetable

- take notice if your arty paints a target - it will be shot with high probability (unless a better target pops up)

 

 

all so very good advice:

 

- be hidden (not a good option except as bottom tier in +2 battles or as french autolaoder heavy)

>> hidden out of sight, you you can't do anything

- keep near rocks and buildings - cover is your friend not only against brawlers and snipers

>> aaah, what to do witohut rocks and buildings... great maps

- be on grounds declining away from the arty - many shells will go right past you

>> mhhh hhmm... right. arty will shoot you anyway, especially GC conqueror and others with high arc.

- keep moving and wiggling - arty sells have a travel time of between one to several seconds.

uuuuuhhh. I wiggle so well in my Type 5/Maus/Pz VII

- don't go straight lines over long distances if you are spotted - arty can preaim

>> yup. when doing 20 kph, one can't even zigzag wide enough to avoid shells

- don't drive in groups or hug corners with others - prime targets for arty is groups

>> yup. I will just drive away with 20 kph. switch flanks maybe.

- don't be the only one spotted - if no other target is visible arty will even shoot a Maus with Heavy Spallliner

>> aaah, let's get unspotted !! where's the button for that? is it "2" ?

- use heavy Spallliners - while they only help if the arty shell does not pen you, it reduces stun and splash damage

>> yup, doing that I get killed after 3 shots instead of two, stunned all the time. real useful those spall liners! 10% reduced stun duration too! wow.

- if you go to any standard position at the beginning of the battle, you will most probably be shot by arty preaiming there, so be careful and don't be close to others or move erraticly and swiftly after being spotted - that might help

>> because slow heavies have so many positions they can reach in time, right?

- don't stand in the standard bushes where every game someone stands - arty will blindshoot those regularly if no target is visible or targetable

>> bushes don't work well for superheavies, maybe you got superheavies confused with mediums or TDs ?

- take notice if your arty paints a target - it will be shot with high probability (unless a better target pops up)

>> friendly fire, huh?



Gremlin182 #16 Posted 20 June 2019 - 05:36 PM

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I play arty for the personal missions and thats it.

The mission requirements usually have me shooting clumps of enemy tanks as I am trying to maximise damage and Stun.

There are always players who knowing there are SPGs choose to all huddle together.

The 2 line on Laketown is a real fun spot you can usually hit at least 4 tanks per shot every game.

 

Game changes now discourage me from shooting the same target as I really need to let the stun wear off before applying more of the same.

I don't especially choose my targets the game does that I simply fire at what appears where I am aiming if another target appear at a different map point I shift aim but its not a fast process.

 

Based on my Heavy tanks especially the superheavies, Spal liners work.

Large Med kits work.

 

I do think WG could add to the game by providing more defenses against SPGs and then if players fail to use them its their fault.

I want to see a medic or doctors skill and a first aid box thats akin to the tool box.

Players can then set up their tanks to maximise offense of defense or a bit of both

 

Mods ! yes I know its yet another arty thread but the official one is now so huge no one can find whats already been posted.

Suggest a periodic clearout of the official thread with a sticky list of whats gone before.


Edited by Gremlin182, 20 June 2019 - 05:38 PM.


Xandania #17 Posted 20 June 2019 - 05:41 PM

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Spoiler

 

the best I can offer ;P

 

- be hidden (not a good option except as bottom tier in +2 battles or as french autolaoder heavy)

>> hidden out of sight, you you can't do anything

>>>> Hidden behind some outcropping or another tank might work as well for second-line heavies

- keep near rocks and buildings - cover is your friend not only against brawlers and snipers

>> aaah, what to do witohut rocks and buildings... great maps

>>>>true

- be on grounds declining away from the arty - many shells will go right past you

>> mhhh hhmm... right. arty will shoot you anyway, especially GC conqueror and others with high arc.

>>>> those are indeed annoying but these shells take an aweful long time to reach their targets - even a Maus can clear the position in time till the shell arrives (at least on even ground while in full speed)

- keep moving and wiggling - arty sells have a travel time of between one to several seconds.

>>uuuuuhhh. I wiggle so well in my Type 5/Maus/Pz VII

>>>>point taken - not so helpful for superheavies, but for most others it has its perks

- don't go straight lines over long distances if you are spotted - arty can preaim

>> yup. when doing 20 kph, one can't even zigzag wide enough to avoid shells

>>>> small changes in direction can still mean the difference between a hit and a splash - or a penetration on the engine deck

- don't drive in groups or hug corners with others - prime targets for arty is groups

>> yup. I will just drive away with 20 kph. switch flanks maybe.

>>>>point taken once more - at least if you are in a Superheavy - if not, drive a bit to the side till arty hit the crowd

- don't be the only one spotted - if no other target is visible arty will even shoot a Maus with Heavy Spallliner

>> aaah, let's get unspotted !! where's the button for that? is it "2" ?

>>>>I think that was the Dinger-key. But at least in theory you could "plan" (if it works that is) to be spotted around the same time as other tanks

- use heavy Spallliners - while they only help if the arty shell does not pen you, it reduces stun and splash damage

>> yup, doing that I get killed after 3 shots instead of two, stunned all the time. real useful those spall liners! 10% reduced stun duration too! wow.

>>>>For me it had mainly reduced the damage by arty shells - sometimes even to naught

- if you go to any standard position at the beginning of the battle, you will most probably be shot by arty preaiming there, so be careful and don't be close to others or move erraticly and swiftly after being spotted - that might help

>> because slow heavies have so many positions they can reach in time, right?

>>>>true - though faster heavies and heaviums can

- don't stand in the standard bushes where every game someone stands - arty will blindshoot those regularly if no target is visible or targetable

>> bushes don't work well for superheavies, maybe you got superheavies confused with mediums or TDs ?

>>>> I wouldn't put that past myself - then again I've seen many top tier heavies hiding in bushes behind TDs - and I do not mean the assaulty kind of TDs

- take notice if your arty paints a target - it will be shot with high probability (unless a better target pops up)

>> friendly fire, huh?

>>>> it happens, we all know it - from the artys perspective the goon in the heavy just has to drive close enough to catch the shell, from the heavies perspective the arty is trying to pinch his kill

16:45 Added after 3 minutes

View PostGremlin182, on 20 June 2019 - 04:36 PM, said:

I play arty for the personal missions and thats it.

The mission requirements usually have me shooting clumps of enemy tanks as I am trying to maximise damage and Stun.

There are always players who knowing there are SPGs choose to all huddle together.

The 2 line on Laketown is a real fun spot you can usually hit at least 4 tanks per shot every game.

 

Game changes now discourage me from shooting the same target as I really need to let the stun wear off before applying more of the same.

I don't especially choose my targets the game does that I simply fire at what appears where I am aiming if another target appear at a different map point I shift aim but its not a fast process.

 

Based on my Heavy tanks especially the superheavies, Spal liners work.

Large Med kits work.

 

I do think WG could add to the game by providing more defenses against SPGs and then if players fail to use them its their fault.

I want to see a medic or doctors skill and a first aid box thats akin to the tool box.

Players can then set up their tanks to maximise offense of defense or a bit of both

 

Mods ! yes I know its yet another arty thread but the official one is now so huge no one can find whats already been posted.

Suggest a periodic clearout of the official thread with a sticky list of whats gone before.

 

I really love your idea with the First-Aid box and the additional crew skills - and I would like to add that ther is at least one map now where arty is screwed even more than in HImmelsdorf: Empires Border

Edited by Xandania, 20 June 2019 - 05:42 PM.


Tyrrenus #18 Posted 20 June 2019 - 05:47 PM

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I play artillery a lot. Yes, I’m one of those everybody hates to death.

My own advice is... play artillery! You’ll learn where to go or not go in every map. That won’t protect you 100% by us evil artillery people, but it’ll make your existence a bit easier.

 

Map design is flawed? Actually there are many maps where to play arty is a pain in the behind. 

Maps need improvement (the corridors maps especially), I agree, but improvements must benefit ALL classes


Edited by Tyrrenus, 20 June 2019 - 05:56 PM.


onderschepper #19 Posted 20 June 2019 - 06:33 PM

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The short and simple answer: "Know thine enemy".

Slyspy #20 Posted 20 June 2019 - 07:51 PM

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Same with all tanks; don't be the first one spotted, the only one spotted or the easiest to hit. 




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