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Is traditional grinding dead?


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Negativvv #1 Posted 23 June 2019 - 03:48 AM

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Was going to have a poll but it's probably better served via discussion.

 

Is there even a point to grinding out tanks by playing them solidly anymore?

 

As the WoT Prem account gives an XP buff for the second win of the day, as well as some extra XP buffs for wins of your choice.

 

Add the regular XP dump events like Preparing for Tank Fest and Damaging Special, just play the last game in a mission chain with the grind of your choice for the XP injection.

 

Like nowadays it seems more profitable to simply play your grinds until the daily buffs are used up then play Prem tanks to stockpile credits.

 

Hardly seems worth it to even bother using reserves as it involves sitting there for long periods of time and getting tilted with pressured wins and losses.

 

My last two T10 grinds were the S.Conq and TVP T50 which were both extremely painless as I simply played a little per day and went to do other things once the buffs were used up. 

 

If you were in it for the long haul then could even play just Prem tanks and eventually the merit rewards will unlock stuff for you, although that would take a VERY long time. 

 

Anyone else find the recent changes have changed how they play the game? 

 

 



mjs_89 #2 Posted 23 June 2019 - 04:17 AM

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Powergrinding one line at a time seems like a poor choice. I did it last month, ground the Cemt AX starting with a fully-upgraded Cent I thx to frontlines. I used the premium x3s, triplex5s from tott and additional x5s from some camo bumdles I bought some time earlier. My highest xp game was some 26k xp afer all boni were applied, so yoi can imagine how fast the grind was over.

 

Now I'm back to "grinding" 10 lines at once, but much like op I usually switch to doing personal missions, training crews or grinding credits once the x3s are used up. With all the xp thrown in my face it seems like a waste of time to play one tank over and over just to get the next and repeat.



Tyrrenus #3 Posted 23 June 2019 - 08:57 AM

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Long, painful grinding is very boring (especially if you are a bad player like myself). If anything can help me, in a fair way, to progress a bit faster, I won’t complain. Being a game, I want to get as much fun from it as it’s possible.

If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #4 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:15 AM

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If you want tier 9s and 10s then you've got to do it

Cobra6 #5 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:54 AM

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It's a two sided coin that WG didn't think through properly *yet again* when they implemented it.

 

Their goal with all these boosts was to make sure new players reach the level of "old players" very quickly, unlocking high tier tanks, getting skilled crews etc. in a vain hope that they'd actually stick around as they would be as competitive as "old players".

 

The thing they didn't think properly through and actually completely forgot about is that the fact that, since new players are now far less invested as they have to put far less effort into improving, they actually consider this game "throw away". They simply have no bond with it as they don't need to invest time to build up something.

So not only is making WG this game more forgettable for new players, by all these boosters they are undermining the reward of "old players" that have grinded up lines and good crews over the years and thus making *THEM* less invested as well, their rewards are basically becoming more and more meaningless.

 

Again, Wargaming is a company that only looks very short term in terms of balancing (over armouring, premium ammo for credits, removing cover from maps, corridor map design) and solutions, pretty much every time they fail, or refuse, to see the long term consequences of their actions on this game. The former marks them as incompetent and the latter marks them as devisive, I don't know which one is worse.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 23 June 2019 - 09:55 AM.


Hedgehog_small_tanks #6 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:57 AM

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If I have a new tank that is bad with stock modules then yes I'll play it and use the additional x3 XP bonuses on it in an attempt to get the upgrades.

Edited by Hedgehog_small_tanks, 23 June 2019 - 09:57 AM.


Xandania #7 Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:07 AM

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I'd agree with everyone saying the old "powergrind"-ways are no longer the best choice. You can imitate it, but with personal reserves and the blueprints it is way faster than it used to be.

And that is a good thing - you still have to work for it, but now it is no longer a series of 300 to 1000 xp battles but of 500 to 1500xp-battles. It got a speed-up.

While this means that more people reach the upper tiers, it also means less players going around in stock tanks for long periods - which was one of the major put-offs for me.

 

Then again, nothing really changed for me, as I seldom play the same tank more than once - at least after the first win. Only exceptions are event missions like the aforementioned x5. Just taking your time and slowly advancing all lines at once is my way and little ahs changed there for me ^.^



Negativvv #8 Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:19 AM

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View PostIf_I_Die_You_Die_Too, on 23 June 2019 - 09:15 AM, said:

If you want tier 9s and 10s then you've got to do it

Careful use of events and personal bonuses means that game time for unlocking will be efficient, whilst it might take longer in terms of days needed. Like my first two T10 grinds felt brutal with the time I put in but the recent ones have been borderline casual to get to... 

 

 

09:28 Added after 9 minutes

View PostCobra6, on 23 June 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:

It's a two sided coin that WG didn't think through properly *yet again* when they implemented it.

 

Their goal with all these boosts was to make sure new players reach the level of "old players" very quickly, unlocking high tier tanks, getting skilled crews etc. in a vain hope that they'd actually stick around as they would be as competitive as "old players".

 

The thing they didn't think properly through and actually completely forgot about is that the fact that, since new players are now far less invested as they have to put far less effort into improving, they actually consider this game "throw away". They simply have no bond with it as they don't need to invest time to build up something.

So not only is making WG this game more forgettable for new players, by all these boosters they are undermining the reward of "old players" that have grinded up lines and good crews over the years and thus making *THEM* less invested as well, their rewards are basically becoming more and more meaningless.

 

Again, Wargaming is a company that only looks very short term in terms of balancing (over armouring, premium ammo for credits, removing cover from maps, corridor map design) and solutions, pretty much every time they fail, or refuse, to see the long term consequences of their actions on this game. The former marks them as incompetent and the latter marks them as devisive, I don't know which one is worse.

 

Cobra 6

 

I personally love all the additions, the crew books too as it broke the last barrier in being competitive that wasn't a time sink (other than me own tomato brain :trollface:)

 

Still it might have unforseen consequences long term but I don't think it teaches newer players not to care about their progression. I know WN8 isn't the best measure but I try send improve it along with my WR and MoE.

 

I might be an anomaly however as I'm in it to actually improve and not say Thanks Team when I blow up first in a battle. 

 

There are only a few tanks I've got left to grind out as I know WG and understand that the bulk of tech tree tanks are meh to poor. This just quickens that process and means I can focus on playing well.



Makroros_The_Arty_Magnet #9 Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:39 AM

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View PostNegativvv, on 23 June 2019 - 02:48 AM, said:

Is traditional grinding dead?

 

Nah, I still like to do some quests back in Barrens and STV.

Keeps me immersed while waiting for Classic release.

onderschepper #10 Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:40 AM

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I suspect that the addition of these multipliers and missions is to negate the P2W image created by having Premium Tanks wherein one can accumulate XP at an accelerated rate, then pay to have that XP converted for use on anything.



clixor #11 Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:51 AM

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View PostIf_I_Die_You_Die_Too, on 23 June 2019 - 09:15 AM, said:

If you want tier 9s and 10s then you've got to do it

 

Yes, you would have to play multiple battles, but if you are getting like 10k XP per battle i think we can all agree it's much less battles than 500 - 1k xp per battle.

 

I don't think it's terribly bad though, there are so many tanks in the game and why should a new player play for years to enjoy more than a couple?

 

However, there is a downside, if you have to play less battles, players get to learn their tanks less. They don't have to really adapt to the tanks and play all classes similar (which can be boring and counterproductive).

Another thing i personally noted that i'm getting way less mastery badges when grinding, and as i generally move good crews to the next tier this sucks for me as my goal is to get all tanks aced (and yes, i could just play more battles but i also want to have some sense of progress in my 'grinds';).



MeetriX #12 Posted 23 June 2019 - 11:39 AM

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If I want XP to a tank A, I have to play tank A.

Daily doubles is still the only choice.

 



GeneralJock #13 Posted 23 June 2019 - 12:15 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 23 June 2019 - 08:54 AM, said:

 

Their goal with all these boosts was to make sure new players reach the level of "old players" very quickly, unlocking high tier tanks, getting skilled crews etc. in a vain hope that they'd actually stick around as they would be as competitive as "old players".

 

They simply have no bond with it as they don't need to invest time to build up something.

So not only is making WG this game more forgettable for new players, by all these boosters they are undermining the reward of "old players"

 

Again, Wargaming is a company that only looks very short term in terms of balancing

 

Cobra 6

 

Cobra, I think your answer is very telling. I suspect you hold the same views on this game as many players, you have "invested" time and spent a lot of effort and maybe money to become quite good at it.

For me, "investments" are things you do in IRL: your career, your house, your pension... you invest in all of those to get a better return at a later point.

It does not, and should never, ever, ever, apply to computer games which are at the end of the day whimsical things that we spend (not invest) our leisure time on.

When I buy a game I want it to be as much fun at the start as at the end. It may get more difficult and more challenging, which hopefully makes it more fun.

But WG simply makes the game experience for newer and lower-tier players horrible. It absolutely engineers the desire to just keep playing to try and getting better tanks... the whole meaning of "grind".

If it can make you spend money while doing that, even better. Their financial results are off the scale.

So don't be surprised that earlier efforts are not rewarded, there is no commercial point in that. They need to deliver a new tank, make you want it, then make you grind it.

There are few, if any, games out there where the player base is shown such little respect.

 



Japualtah #14 Posted 23 June 2019 - 12:26 PM

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The system is much better now, it's a relief from playing unplayable tanks like a stock M46 or an IS-M.

New players can catch up and enjoy playing at higher tiers and old players can grind lines they would have never ground if the system had not evolved.

It's a win-win situation.

If you think it's bad new players gain access to higher tiers faster, I must say I have not noticed any difference in the quality of game play over the years. If one thing, I'm much more annoyed with people marking tanks and playing the red line to maximize damage (which, allegedly, is not the correct way to do it, whatever) and do not care about victory anymore.

 

IMO, the game has its flaws (artillery, premium ammo and lots of other things) but I well come those changes.

I might be wrong though, it is indeed true that players weave strong bonds with a game the longer they have played, but something had to be done for newer players to allow them to catch up.



sabre_ferret #15 Posted 23 June 2019 - 12:37 PM

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View Postonderschepper, on 23 June 2019 - 10:40 AM, said:

I suspect that the addition of these multipliers and missions is to negate the P2W image created by having Premium Tanks wherein one can accumulate XP at an accelerated rate, then pay to have that XP converted for use on anything.

 

That isn't play to win though, that's pay to progress.  If anything it makes you less likely to win as you're playing at higher tiers after fewer games to learn in, for newer players, or at least fewer games to get the hang of a line for more experienced players.  

onderschepper #16 Posted 23 June 2019 - 02:09 PM

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View Postsabre_ferret, on 23 June 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

 

That isn't play to win though, that's pay to progress.  If anything it makes you less likely to win as you're playing at higher tiers after fewer games to learn in, for newer players, or at least fewer games to get the hang of a line for more experienced players.  

 

It doesn't stop freemium players from using it as a complaint though.

 

Edit: Take an example of two players both purchasing the same tank at whatever tier, the player who converts free xp from a premium tank and unlocks all modules instantly shall have an advantage over the player who has to grind to achieve the same outcome (damage, pen, aim time, reload, speed, traverse, view range, etc), thus creating an unfair advantage which is the result of paying money - aka p2w.

 

Just like premium ammo is no longer premium, but the moans continue...............


Edited by onderschepper, 23 June 2019 - 02:16 PM.


IntruderFI #17 Posted 23 June 2019 - 02:25 PM

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View PostTyrrenus, on 23 June 2019 - 10:57 AM, said:

Long, painful grinding is very boring (especially if you are a bad player like myself). If anything can help me, in a fair way, to progress a bit faster, I won’t complain. Being a game, I want to get as much fun from it as it’s possible.

 

There is also fun learning the game and becoming better.

Getting freebies to get to tier 10 is the worst idea ever.



Nishi_Kinuyo #18 Posted 23 June 2019 - 02:58 PM

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Ah yes, I remember it like it was yesterday.

Back in my old days, we used to grind new tanks using a quern.

But these days, all those kids use those fancy windmills instead, and claim that it grinds much better than my old quern ever did.

Preposterous, I tell you.



onderschepper #19 Posted 23 June 2019 - 03:02 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 23 June 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

Ah yes, I remember it like it was yesterday.

Back in my old days, we used to grind new tanks using a quern.

But these days, all those kids use those fancy windmills instead, and claim that it grinds much better than my old quern ever did.

Preposterous, I tell you.

 

Rich people and their fancy gizmos!

 

Common folk use a pestle and mortar. :P



Nishi_Kinuyo #20 Posted 23 June 2019 - 03:11 PM

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View Postonderschepper, on 23 June 2019 - 03:02 PM, said:

 

Rich people and their fancy gizmos!

 

Common folk use a pestle and mortar. :P

Well pardon me, guv'nah, for being white and entitled. :P






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