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EBR - the tank that killed wot

EBR OP

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_Iron_Duke_ #1 Posted 23 June 2019 - 08:52 PM

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I really think that the introduction of the EBR is the worst thing WG as done in years. The introduction of the EBR has made the heavy tank (and many others) obsolete as they swarm around you and if you are being attacked by two or three its impossible to defend yourself. Their speed and mobility makes them so very hard to hit and being able to unload two shell in quick succession is just totally OP, Just one EBR can unload 4 shells for every heavy shell. I really think their introduction has spoiled the game and cannot understand what WG were thinking bringing this vehicle into the game. With the increasing number of EBR's and BC's whats the point of playing any slow tanks at all unless you want to die quickly? This is far worse than the introduction of the WT E100 in my opinion.  Interested what the community thinks about this?

_6i6_ #2 Posted 23 June 2019 - 08:59 PM

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i believe this is the first post of this kind?

kidding aside...im sure you'll find many many several posts regardiing wheeled vehicles hate in the forum, and there has been mixed opinions about it



I_Gutmensch_Deluxe_I #3 Posted 23 June 2019 - 08:59 PM

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I used to hate Arta abysmally - now i hate Sport cars with Laserguns even more.
Remove them.

Nishi_Kinuyo #4 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:02 PM

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Or you can learn not to overextend and to lead your shells properly?

Major_Gitgud #5 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:04 PM

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its easier to make fun of terrible heavy tank player in regular light tanks, easier to circle etc. so no thats definitely not a game breaking factor.

i mean its easy to make fun of terrible heavy tank drivers with most of meds.


Edited by Major_Gitgud, 23 June 2019 - 09:05 PM.


MeNoobTank #6 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:16 PM

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You made your first mistake in the Title: "EBR - THE TANK...." EBR is not a tank.

Second mistake is that you don't know how to use paragraphs.

 

P.S: also full caps lock = lock


Edited by MeNoobTank, 23 June 2019 - 09:17 PM.


gav00 #7 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:18 PM

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I don't have a problem with the speed of the wheeled vehicles per se, but the fact that they can spot tanks before they have even left the spawn area is game-breaking.

 

So many slower vehicles are now useless because you're shot to heck by artillery before you've had a chance to find any cover.

 

IMO WG should do one of two things: Either make the maps bigger, or give the spawn points some hard cover.



Major_Gitgud #8 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:27 PM

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slow vehicles were useless long before wheeled vehicles, chose wrong flank, auto-lose.

gav00 #9 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:28 PM

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View PostMajor_Gitgud, on 23 June 2019 - 09:27 PM, said:

slow vehicles were useless long before wheeled vehicles, chose wrong flank, auto-lose.

 

At least you had the opportunity to pick a flank. Nowadays you don't even get to a flank before it hits the fan.

Zylon0 #10 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:37 PM

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Agreed with the OP.

ExclamationMark #11 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:41 PM

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I did a bit of research and OP is a prolific arty player. Seems they are getting a bit mad about EBRs killing them. 

 

Glorious. Next!


Edited by ExclamationMark, 23 June 2019 - 09:42 PM.


Negativvv #12 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:45 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 23 June 2019 - 09:02 PM, said:

Or you can learn not to overextend and to lead your shells properly?

 

My LT play needed some readjustment because of cars as passive bush spotting isn't like it used to be. You need to be nearer your support or be ready to retreat to hard cover as a WV can just zoom past you which spots you then all the enemy alpha you for a 1 way garage trip...

 

Just adapting slightly tho, no big dramas. 



gav00 #13 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:54 PM

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View PostExclamationMark, on 23 June 2019 - 09:41 PM, said:

I did a bit of research and OP is a prolific arty player. Seems they are getting a bit mad about EBRs killing them. 

 

Glorious. Next!

 

From my experience, the wheeled vehicles actually help their own artillery far more than give grief to the enemy artillery.

salvager #14 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:55 PM

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View Post_Iron_Duke_, on 23 June 2019 - 07:52 PM, said:

I really think that the introduction of the EBR is the worst thing WG as done in years. The introduction of the EBR has made the heavy tank (and many others) obsolete as they swarm around you and if you are being attacked by two or three its impossible to defend yourself. Their speed and mobility makes them so very hard to hit and being able to unload two shell in quick succession is just totally OP, Just one EBR can unload 4 shells for every heavy shell. I really think their introduction has spoiled the game and cannot understand what WG were thinking bringing this vehicle into the game. With the increasing number of EBR's and BC's whats the point of playing any slow tanks at all unless you want to die quickly? This is far worse than the introduction of the WT E100 in my opinion.  Interested what the community thinks about this?

 

Agreed, absolutely.

BlackBloodBandit #15 Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:13 PM

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View Post_Iron_Duke_, on 23 June 2019 - 08:52 PM, said:

 

another useless whine topic. bye



bitslice #16 Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:26 PM

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Seems like most of the negs come from really good players, who I'd suggest are not caring what would make this game enjoyable for the average or new player.

BlackBloodBandit #17 Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:34 PM

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View Postbitslice, on 23 June 2019 - 10:26 PM, said:

Seems like most of the negs come from really good players, who I'd suggest are not caring what would make this game enjoyable for the average or new player.

that's far from true. most players I've seen making topics are bad players who don't even have a clue in general how to play this game..



XxKuzkina_MatxX #18 Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:38 PM

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View Postbitslice, on 24 June 2019 - 01:26 AM, said:

Seems like most of the negs come from really good players, who I'd suggest are not caring what would make this game enjoyable for the average or new player.

 

Not really, don't confuse good with 'loud'. Take a look at this post written a few months ago...

 

View PostCelution, on 26 March 2019 - 10:16 PM, said:

They aren't by any means what can be considered "overpowered". They are however, broken by design. I understand that WG wanted them to be unique, but in all honesty, the vehicles having a completely different movement mechanic is already unique enough. No need to make them incredibly gimmicky in a lot of ways. A serious revision of these vehicles should be considered, as it's a combination of many things that create gameplay issues.

 

To sum up the issues:

 

  • Ludicrous top speed, both forward/reverse.
  • Comical agility (laws of physics, momentum, etc)
  • Ultra-high shell velocity on the standard APCR shells.
  • Practically no gun dispersion (reticule bloom) even at top speeds.
  • Gimmicky hitbox in relation to the visual size and suspension (wheels).

 

Because of the things above, the vehicles are gimped in other statistics:

 

  • Low base view range.
  • Low penetration on APCR/HEAT.
  • High penetration and damage on HE.
  • Poor DPM potential.
  • Low hitpoints.

 

So why are these things an issue? 

 

There are various reasons.

 

  • Prior to the introduction of these vehicles, there was a "speed ceiling" of how fast teams could reach certain positions on maps. Thus, map dynamics have changed entirely due to these vehicles. For some maps it's barely noticeable, for others it means a complete change in how the map works. This problem increases vastly from tier 8 to tier 10. At tier 8 the speed ceiling was increased by 15-33%, at tier 9 this was 21-33% and at tier 10 an astonishing 26-46%.
  • This increased speed ceiling in turn reduces the time for action to start, thus it it is likely to further reduce the average battle duration. Certain passage ways may be cut off earlier on due to the forward spotter and second line sniper combo. This means fewer tanks can reach forward positions and thus may affect map dynamics.
  • The ultra-high shell velocity in combination with practically no gun dispersion at all make it extremely easy to hit (moving) targets whilst being on the move. No, I am not taking the enhanced auto-aim into consideration, since it does not affect this. The ultra high top speed and agilty make it in turn difficult to retaliate. It's simply said not fun to get hit by these things much like artillery or high-caliber HE derp guns. It's both frustrating and toxic as you generally feel the "lack of skill" needed to pull it off.
  • Dumb movements and poor player choices are not punished the way they are for any other thing in this game. As a matter of fact, the combination of the things listed above promote this kind of gameplay. I'll elaborate:
    • These vehicles are completely immune to a very important gameplay feature of this game: immobilising.
    • The low base view range and ludicrous speed/agility combination scream for what is known as "suicide scouting".
    • Wonky hitboxes with the seemingly large visual profile of these vehicles result in countless "critical hits" that do exactly nothing.
  • Combine the things above with extremely easy-to-use gun stats and you may see another issue: the tanks are extremely forgiving to play. Where light tanks need to consider things such as "do I keep moving or do I slow down to snap in a shot or two?" and "do I passive scout or active scout?", these vehicles don't require any of that thought process whatsoever.

 

What can be done?

 

There is absolutely no need for these vehicles to be a gimmick and have their statistics all over the place that all-in-all have a negative impact on the overall gameplay.

 

  • Nominal top speeds of 60-70 km/h (cruise) and 70-80 km/h (rapid) and overall less agility (slower acceleration and actual reduction in momentum when performing turns and climbs), whilst retaining the unique feature of having identical forward/reverse speeds.
  • Ordinary gun handling statistics (raw aim time, gun dispersion) that force the player to either perform scouting OR fire-support, not both simultaneously.
  • Regular base view range values that fit with the overall gameplay.
  • More competitive gun statistics in terms of penetration and DPM potential, whilst retaining the trademark feature of high penetration HE shells.
  • Reworked hitboxes that include the centre of the wheels (the steel rims) to be part of the vehicle hitbox that can receive damage.

 

TL;DR:

 

These vehicles are broken by design and it makes no sense that their statistics are all over the place, whilst also being extremely unnecessary. The unique movement physics combined with the fact that they are "the first wheeled vehicles" make them unique enough, there was no reason to make them a gimmick other aspects.

 

Now that's an excellent player and facts (win rate curves) back his opinion. Eventually WG will notice and hit the wheelies hard!



SlyMeerkat #19 Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:40 PM

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The wheeled vehicles would not be so bad if they didn't absorb shots to many times which is most annoying 

If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #20 Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:43 PM

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Arty player complains about EBRs ruining game

 

okay







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