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Lakeville Encounter [edited] Valley mentality.

Lakeville Gameplay Valley Encounter Town

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Dorander #21 Posted 24 June 2019 - 03:53 PM

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View PostHaZardeur, on 24 June 2019 - 01:27 PM, said:

 

Usually the valley push is done by Steve in his Löwe, it once worked and now he keeps on pushing valley even though his last succesful valley push was 2014. You will also find Steve and his Löwe on the beach of Overlord.

 

At least on Overlord, Steve went Lowe, whereas on Lakeville for some reason, Steve went high.

 

... I'll see myself out :hiding:

 

 

On-topic: what actually IS a good tactic on Lakeville which isn't camping with multiple lines of fire at enemy exit points (since camping is boring)? It seems to be one of those "whomever pushes loses" maps and I've never quite gotten the hang of it myself (other than don't push the valley).



Karasu_Hidesuke #22 Posted 24 June 2019 - 03:53 PM

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It's the ultimate tunnel.

 

I've tried to made use of it, and I've actually been in those very very slow tanks because they have no chance of making the long way around the lake through the city. It works, unless the other side is focusing you with TD's and arty. And snap shotting you. In that case the best solution is to troll them and try to tie down those tanks so they won't be more useful elsewhere.



Hedgehog_small_tanks #23 Posted 24 June 2019 - 03:54 PM

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I don't understand why people play encounter mode...

OmniWalou #24 Posted 24 June 2019 - 04:07 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 24 June 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

If enemy had went city, you would have lost to cap most likely.

 

14:37 Added after 2 minutes

No. There is never ever a reason to go beach on Overlord.

And same applies for Lakeville encounter. 

 

They are flanks, but both are completely irrelevant. If you are so afraid of a push there, you can protect it from mid road and the corners at City. Which will also make you useful in city fight.

And on Overlord, y out can just go back when enemy starts to appear on beach and then kill them extremely easy if they decide to push up from the low ground. 

 

 

Here is the difference in tactics and strategy between a 60%+WR player and a 53% WR player.

 

 

Be careful LM, your smugness is showing once again. And it's not helping your case. Like I said, someone has to go there. You can't leave the beach or valley open for enemies. When Steve in his tank pokes over the ridge and doesn't get spotted or shots, he will realise that there is no one there and it's free to push. You agree to that as you say it; these flanks can be defended, which is the whole point of me saying how someone has to be there to stop it. From now on, start paying attention to matches where your team leaves the valley and beach completely open. The beach route for example doesn't take long to complete. In that time, the upper side has to realise that enemies are on the beach and act accordingly i.e go defend or push and clear the upper side. That just doesn't happen. Of course sometimes the beach pushers will make the mistakes that might make you think that you won the game by playing in an epic way. All in all, due to players like you shaming anyone going to the valley or beach, they are left open and better players going there, after assessing the situation at start, can push it (and worse players too, but by mostly being lucky instead of correctly assessing the situation).

 

And btw, 60% WR at tier 6,35 doesn't make you a tactical genius in the game. ;) Also lol at you going straight to checking stats.



Vtsuk #25 Posted 24 June 2019 - 04:31 PM

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I'm impressed that there are still people playing encounter! :trollface:

OmniWalou #26 Posted 24 June 2019 - 04:41 PM

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View PostDorander, on 24 June 2019 - 03:53 PM, said:

On-topic: what actually IS a good tactic on Lakeville which isn't camping with multiple lines of fire at enemy exit points (since camping is boring)? It seems to be one of those "whomever pushes loses" maps and I've never quite gotten the hang of it myself (other than don't push the valley).

 

It's pretty much map control and careful pushing and digging out the enemy. The ''whoever pushes loses'' comes from just teams pushing blindly into defensive positions and it happens pretty much on every map. On Lakeville for example you can hold one flank and push/outnumber the other. On encounter the cap pressure helps drawing enemies out but if it ends in a cap, it's a pretty useless match for everyone involved (xp and credits wise). The problematic thing is always that someone has to be the one to go first or do the spotting and people don't generally do that. In valley someone has to push over the ridge to get down to the cover. From city you have to push and use the lower ground next to the water and just spot for your team shooting from the back and try to force the enemy defenses to go behind the 'corner' in order to safely get more people closer. Or just double time it back to your base and go through the middle to safely get closer to enemy cap.

 

Camping is just the simpler solution on Lakeville and does work but pushing is more fun, challenging and interesting.



Balc0ra #27 Posted 24 June 2019 - 05:08 PM

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You could say that about valley on standard battles too tbh.

 

But then again, most maps don't work too well with other modes in mind. Encounter less soo. Thus why I suspect so many have it off by default. Inc me. I only had it on when I had LT missions with a fair bit of assist. Since I did LT-15 for the Obj. I've not had Assault or Encounter on. As Emperors border more or less showed why that's a good idea. 



vasilinhorulezz #28 Posted 24 June 2019 - 05:20 PM

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View PostJauhesammutin, on 24 June 2019 - 02:47 PM, said:

 

Actually I drove through the valley and all the way to the city to decap. You might say that it was my teammates who ensured a win but if the enemy had won the valley then they would have eventually flanked our friendlies in the city and won the game.

 

No?

shikaka9 #29 Posted 24 June 2019 - 05:31 PM

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Simple: kids refuses to learn maps :trollface:

 



LordMuffin #30 Posted 24 June 2019 - 05:47 PM

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View PostOmniWalou, on 24 June 2019 - 04:07 PM, said:

 

Be careful LM, your smugness is showing once again. And it's not helping your case. Like I said, someone has to go there. You can't leave the beach or valley open for enemies. When Steve in his tank pokes over the ridge and doesn't get spotted or shots, he will realise that there is no one there and it's free to push. You agree to that as you say it; these flanks can be defended, which is the whole point of me saying how someone has to be there to stop it. From now on, start paying attention to matches where your team leaves the valley and beach completely open. The beach route for example doesn't take long to complete. In that time, the upper side has to realise that enemies are on the beach and act accordingly i.e go defend or push and clear the upper side. That just doesn't happen. Of course sometimes the beach pushers will make the mistakes that might make you think that you won the game by playing in an epic way. All in all, due to players like you shaming anyone going to the valley or beach, they are left open and better players going there, after assessing the situation at start, can push it (and worse players too, but by mostly being lucky instead of correctly assessing the situation).

 

And btw, 60% WR at tier 6,35 doesn't make you a tactical genius in the game. ;) Also lol at you going straight to checking stats.

No, someone don't have to go there, end of discussion.

0 tanks are needed on beach, 0 tanks are needed in vally. Giving up those locations doesn't give the enemy a single good area to play from.

 

I still have to play a single game on Overlord where beach was relevant. And a single game on Lakeville encounter where Valley was relevant.

 

My tactics brought me to 60% WR, yours brought you to 53%. 

I wonder which tactics are superior...

 

My view on tactics comes from the view of 60%WR and 2700 WN8 and what kind of tactics are needed to achieve to see statistics.


Edited by LordMuffin, 24 June 2019 - 05:54 PM.


gav00 #31 Posted 24 June 2019 - 05:50 PM

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I love sitting at the back of the valley in a TD, please keep sending muppets over the ridge

OmniWalou #32 Posted 24 June 2019 - 06:08 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 24 June 2019 - 05:47 PM, said:

No, someone don't have to go there, end of discussion.

0 tanks are needed on beach, 0 tanks are needed in vally. Giving up those locations doesn't give the enemy a single good area to play from.

 

I still have to play a single game on Overlord where beach was relevant. And a single game on Lakeville encounter where Valley was relevant.

 

My tactics brought me to 60% WR, yours brought you to 53%. 

I wonder which tactics are superior...

 

My view on tactics comes from the view of 60%WR and 2700 WN8 and what kind of tactics are needed to achieve to see statistics.

 

Your stats are hugely affected by lower tiers, by a different environment. Like I said, that doesn't make you a tactical genius and it shows. Only thing you can say is

''No, someone don't have to go there, end of discussion.''


Your winrate is not an argument when you can't put out an argument where you assess the map and it's positions. Are you going to claim that you have 100% winrate on Lakeville and Overlord and thus you are superior tactician? If the flanks are left open, how do you deal with the situation? Or do you blame the team for leaving the valley and beach open? I definitely don't believe you when you claim that you've never seen any advantage being gained from valley or beach. There is a 100% chance that your perception is affected by confirmation bias.

 

Fact it that there is always someone to be going to the flanks and if you leave it open you have to push aggressively the other flank. That just doesn't happen. I don't know what game are you playing but then again most likely you never go to those flanks and blame team if the flanks are lost. Start actually paying attention in those games when no one in your team goes to those flanks, watch the replays for example and report back.

 

And please, lay off the stats talk and boasting, it doesn't help you look sane at all. :facepalm:


Edited by OmniWalou, 24 June 2019 - 06:20 PM.


gav00 #33 Posted 24 June 2019 - 06:14 PM

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The valley is one of those flanks which appear in many WoT maps, which should always be defended, but never pushed.

LordMuffin #34 Posted 24 June 2019 - 06:43 PM

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View PostOmniWalou, on 24 June 2019 - 06:08 PM, said:

 

Your stats are hugely affected by lower tiers, by a different environment. Like I said, that doesn't make you a tactical genius and it shows. Only thing you can say is

''No, someone don't have to go there, end of discussion.''


Your winrate is not an argument when you can't put out an argument where you assess the map and it's positions. Are you going to claim that you have 100% winrate on Lakeville and Overlord and thus you are superior tactician? If the flanks are left open, how do you deal with the situation? Or do you blame the team for leaving the valley and beach open? I definitely don't believe you when you claim that you've never seen any advantage being gained from valley or beach. There is a 100% chance that your perception is affected by confirmation bias.

 

Fact it that there is always someone to be going to the flanks and if you leave it open you have to push aggressively the other flank. That just doesn't happen. I don't know what game are you playing but then again most likely you never go to those flanks and blame team if the flanks are lost. Start actually paying attention in those games when no one in your team goes to those flanks, watch the replays for example and report back.

 

And please, lay off the stats talk and boasting, it doesn't help you look sane at all. :facepalm:

 

My stats hugely effected by low tiered games...

Type \ Tier 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Total
HTs       2,161 2,355 2,376 2,507 3,066 3,170 2,826 2,675
MTs 881 955 1,609 1,763 3,074 2,917 2,907 3,145 3,356 2,738 2,977
LTs 1,678 1,559 1,287 1,185 3,013 2,748 2,812 3,497 2,820   2,619
TDs   1,334 1,487 2,155 2,554 2,958 2,704 3,058     2,818
SPGs   683 249 1,369 839 801 1,421       1,035
Total 1,667 1,466 1,262 1,552 2,712 2,675 2,673 3,177 3,241 2,806 2,758

You didn't even bother looking at my statistics before claiming my stats was due to low tier padding... maybe next time you make such a claim, try to make sure you are correct. 

 

It looks kind of bad on you to imply my stats are due to low tier padding and then when faced with the statistics, it turns out you are completely wrong.

The fact is that my highest wn8 tiers are T9, followed by T8 and then T10.

 

The reason why Overlord beach and valley on Lakeville encounter is irrelevant is because they don't offer any useful positions when won.

 

 

Winrate is helpful to see from which skill bracket a players tactical and strategical perception is comming from.

 

Also, same statistics for your account.

Type \ Tier 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Total
HTs         1,081 854         1,084
MTs     2,583 1,203 588 1,981 4,485       1,434
LTs 1,103 893 1,420 981             1,061
TDs         1,334           1,334
SPGs           956         956
Total 1,103 893 2,076 1,057 990 1,523 4,485       1,183

 

Your best performance is on T3 followed by T6. 

Your 2 battles at T7 is to small of a sample to be relevant.


Edited by LordMuffin, 24 June 2019 - 06:57 PM.


crnakoza #35 Posted 24 June 2019 - 06:58 PM

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View PostJauhesammutin, on 24 June 2019 - 01:48 PM, said:

 

I got +10k dmg game from the encounter valley. Depending on the MM it's either easy farm or totally useless.

Players succeed once and then try the same thing thousand times failing miserably.

 

And I once got a 8k spotted dmg game with my panther 8.8 on prokhorovka. Doesn't mean I will try to play a scout every time I run a bottom tier medium tank.

 

I think people are far too much stuck on outliers, this is selective memory at work. Someone once had a great game there, and so he keeps repeating the same steps completely ignoring the fact that it fails in 99% of cases. I don't think people ask themselves why they kicked @ss, or why did they lose, it just matters to them that they did. Situations in the match are never quite the same. In one match you can lock down entire corridor all by yourself because everyone is unwilling to get out and receive a shot from your E100, while in the next match suddenly you play against people who realize that you can only fire so many shots in a given timespan so they gang up on you and send you to garage.

 

That's the same reason why you have redline sniping heavies, why people complain armour doesn't work, why some think camouflage is broken, and everyone sees cheats everywhere... Nobody seems to analyze why some particular situation got them destroyed, they just remember they had a really bad experience doing something so they avoid it altogether.


Edited by crnakoza, 24 June 2019 - 07:00 PM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #36 Posted 24 June 2019 - 06:59 PM

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The only tanks that should be going beach are scouts because they have the mobility to relocate elsewhere. Anything bigger than that is a wasted tank and you'll lose the high ground whilst your busy trundling across the sand.

crnakoza #37 Posted 24 June 2019 - 07:07 PM

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View PostOmniWalou, on 24 June 2019 - 06:08 PM, said:

Fact it that there is always someone to be going to the flanks and if you leave it open you have to push aggressively the other flank.

 

And how about you let them sit in your cap circle? Scary idea, right? Did you not notice that cap is exposed, what use is capping when the other team can just mop you off their cap circle from the safe sniping positions?

 

My pet peeve is malinovka and some people determined to push the west side, while some other being adamant at meeting them head on and stopping them right then and there (you know, H1 and K2). God forbid enemies come anywhere near the cap circle. It's not like both teams have high ground and dense forest to hide and snipe from there. And its not like both cap circles are completely exposed with nowhere to hide. Sitting on cap circle on malinovka while there are enemies still around is like serving yourself on a plate.


Edited by crnakoza, 24 June 2019 - 07:08 PM.


gav00 #38 Posted 24 June 2019 - 07:13 PM

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View Postcrnakoza, on 24 June 2019 - 07:07 PM, said:

 

And how about you let them sit in your cap circle? Scary idea, right? Did you not notice that cap is exposed, what use is capping when the other team can just mop you off their cap circle from the safe sniping positions?

 

My pet peeve is malinovka and some people determined to push the west side, while some other being adamant at meeting them head on and stopping them right then and there (you know, H1 and K2). God forbid enemies come anywhere near the cap circle. It's not like both teams have high ground and dense forest to hide and snipe from there. And its not like both cap circles are completely exposed with nowhere to hide. Sitting on cap circle on malinovka while there are enemies still around is like serving yourself on a plate.

 

I dont ever remember seeing anyone cap out on Malinovka or Prokhorovka. They might as well remove those caps

r00barb #39 Posted 24 June 2019 - 07:23 PM

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View Postcrnakoza, on 24 June 2019 - 06:07 PM, said:

Sitting on cap circle on malinovka while there are enemies still around is like serving yourself on a plate.

 

That's why expert players like me drive around in circles while capping. :great:



crnakoza #40 Posted 24 June 2019 - 07:32 PM

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View Postgav00, on 24 June 2019 - 07:13 PM, said:

I dont ever remember seeing anyone cap out on Malinovka or Prokhorovka. They might as well remove those caps

 

I actually do.

 

View Postr00barb, on 24 June 2019 - 07:23 PM, said:

That's why expert players like me drive around in circles while capping. :great:

 

Circling is not going to save you. You get spotted you die. If you can drive in circles fast, you are either driving a light tank or a wheelie, you are no threat people will get closer to remove you from cap. You drive something that people don't want to go near and you will just get sniped from distance.


Edited by crnakoza, 24 June 2019 - 07:38 PM.






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