Jump to content


Ranked battles summary


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

PabloGee #1 Posted 25 June 2019 - 03:43 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 30741 battles
  • 173
  • Member since:
    01-15-2014

1. Go to some op position

2. stay there what ever is going on just farm XP points in your batchat.

3. Your team  lossing? its better  you will have free dmg xp from woods.

4. sell you clip and run then try again

5.be 1st in losing team = win 

 

This is one of the worst "ranked" system in game history. All a bout exploit XP not a win a match.

Also seeing number of players  in leagues nobody give a crap about such " ranking". What is so complicated to do simple ranked system not with  3 division of grinding placement plus with so unclear rules that nobody give a crapto even read it. 

I stopped once I realized I have to play 3 division  to maybe get placed somewhere with no possibility to move up ?  

 

I see players with 120 battles and 2100 avg dmg in gold league XD 

 

 

 



NUKLEAR_SLUG #2 Posted 25 June 2019 - 04:17 AM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 33093 battles
  • 3,902
  • [FISHY] FISHY
  • Member since:
    06-13-2015
(Win=Chevron+1)+(Lose=Chevron-1)=RankedFixed

OmniWalou #3 Posted 25 June 2019 - 05:43 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 452 battles
  • 198
  • Member since:
    04-13-2019

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 25 June 2019 - 04:17 AM, said:

(Win=Chevron+1)+(Lose=Chevron-1)=RankedFixed

 

Okay, honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. Cause that definitely wouldn't fix it in this kind of environment where it's mostly tending towards 50% (49%) winrates with some outliers. Even good/excellent players had sub 50% winrates It's amazing though that some people can't even rank up with this cehvron-positive situation. What needs fixing is the mindset of the players who think that they need to play every match so that they make sure they are best of the losing team. The whole incentive is in winning, it makes no sense for players to give up a win to chase that one chevron. Maybe top 5 retaining a chevron in losing team would be better, but we would still most likely get people playing for the loss in hopes of retaining a chevron. Lose = loss of chevron definitely isn't the solution, nor is gaining a chevron automatically from a win.

 

But then again, maybe you were being sarcastic.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #4 Posted 25 June 2019 - 06:35 AM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 33093 battles
  • 3,902
  • [FISHY] FISHY
  • Member since:
    06-13-2015

View PostOmniWalou, on 25 June 2019 - 05:43 AM, said:

Lose = loss of chevron definitely isn't the solution, nor is gaining a chevron automatically from a win.

 

But then again, maybe you were being sarcastic.

 

Yes it is, everyone on the winning team should get a chevron, it discourages the desire to camp because you don't want to risk losing a chevron. It encourages team play and working together rather than letting someone die because you're afraid of taking damage.

 

Everyone on the losing team should lose a chevron, it discourages players abandoning their team and going into 'farm mode' by giving no incentive to try and be the best loser.

 

We can still keep the chevron positive system with extra for the best winners, that allows progression for good play. AFK'ers and those that can't play consistently well just won't progress far relying on their team to carry them and that's how it should be.



OmniWalou #5 Posted 25 June 2019 - 06:51 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 452 battles
  • 198
  • Member since:
    04-13-2019

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 25 June 2019 - 06:35 AM, said:

 

Yes it is, everyone on the winning team should get a chevron, it discourages the desire to camp because you don't want to risk losing a chevron. It encourages team play and working together rather than letting someone die because you're afraid of taking damage.

 

Everyone on the losing team should lose a chevron, it discourages players abandoning their team and going into 'farm mode' by giving no incentive to try and be the best loser.

 

We can still keep the chevron positive system with extra for the best winners, that allows progression for good play. AFK'ers and those that can't play consistently well just won't progress far relying on their team to carry them and that's how it should be.

 

But it already is encouraging winning and discouraging being useless in a winning team. Also rewarding the losing team from actually trying to win. The problem is that certain type of players see that losing team chevron as something to go for instead of fighting for the win. The mindset needs to change or take that reward out and replace it with a retained chevron.

TankkiPoju #6 Posted 25 June 2019 - 06:56 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 22791 battles
  • 6,968
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011

View PostPabloGee, on 25 June 2019 - 03:43 AM, said:

I see players with 120 battles and 2100 avg dmg in gold league XD 

 

Didn't you just say all those players did was farm damage in batchats?

 

If WoT had skill based MM, all best players would have that average damage.



Balc0ra #7 Posted 25 June 2019 - 07:33 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 70974 battles
  • 19,625
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012
 

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 25 June 2019 - 06:35 AM, said:

Everyone on the losing team should lose a chevron, it discourages players abandoning their team and going into 'farm mode' by giving no incentive to try and be the best loser.

 

The only thing that would happen then is more or less as bad as leaving to red line farm. The second most see a loss is a sure thing. They will go idle or yolo to get it done. As they won't gain anything by losing good. So suddenly that 38% chance to win went down to 1%. So you lose badly all the time when you first lose. So then you get a different issue vs red line farming by only rewarding the best "losers"

 

View PostOmniWalou, on 25 June 2019 - 06:51 AM, said:

 

But it already is encouraging winning and discouraging being useless in a winning team. Also rewarding the losing team from actually trying to win. The problem is that certain type of players see that losing team chevron as something to go for instead of fighting for the win. The mindset needs to change or take that reward out and replace it with a retained chevron.

 

I don't mind that players on the winning team that did nothing don't gain a chevron. It prevents bots from being carried up even. But the losing team is a tricky one to balance. Beta rewarded to many, so then half the team went redline farming the second a loss was a sure thing. Less so this time around, but you always have one. But I suspect changing that so they don't reward one on a loss, but don't lose one either on tops spots is the same thing. They will still do it not to go down in ranks. So it will still be something to go for if you will for some players.



TankkiPoju #8 Posted 25 June 2019 - 07:41 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 22791 battles
  • 6,968
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011

View PostBalc0ra, on 25 June 2019 - 07:33 AM, said:

But the losing team is a tricky one to balance. Beta rewarded to many, so then half the team went redline farming the second a loss was a sure thing. Less so this time around, but you always have one. But I suspect changing that so they don't reward one on a loss, but don't lose one either on tops spots is the same thing. They will still do it not to go down in ranks. So it will still be something to go for if you will for some players.

 

WG tried to balance this by giving extra XP if a player uses his tank for "correct role".

 

Which screwed light tanks even more. Russian medium tanks seem to fill the role of "shoot HEAT from redline" just fine, so that got rewarded.

 

 



Jauhesammutin #9 Posted 25 June 2019 - 07:48 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 23502 battles
  • 691
  • [KANKI] KANKI
  • Member since:
    11-05-2013

View PostOmniWalou, on 25 June 2019 - 05:51 AM, said:

 

But it already is encouraging winning and discouraging being useless in a winning team. Also rewarding the losing team from actually trying to win. The problem is that certain type of players see that losing team chevron as something to go for instead of fighting for the win. The mindset needs to change or take that reward out and replace it with a retained chevron.

 

I don't think you understand what kind of "ranked" we want.

The positive chevron system is stupid, losers shouldn't get any points. Currently the gamemode is a grind. With infinite amount of time every player is going to be on the "top".

 

Chevrons should be multiplied by a hundred. Give the top winning player 300 chevrons and the worst winning player like 20. All depending on stats ofc. So if everyone has equal stats then everyone gets the same amount of chevrons.

The same way for the losing team. The best loser gets -20 chevrons and the AFK player -300.

That way good players will rise to the top by losing less and winning more and bad players will stay at the bottom by winning less and losing more.

I don't really understand the mentality that everyone needs to get to the top. 

 



Homer_J #10 Posted 25 June 2019 - 08:42 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 31717 battles
  • 34,780
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 25 June 2019 - 04:17 AM, said:

(Win=Chevron+1)+(Lose=Chevron-1)=RankedFixed

 

I agree but the majority voted with their battle button when it was tried.

 

Fact is nobody really wants a proper ranked mode and even the half baked version we have needs a bribe to get people to play.  It's time WG just dropped the pretence completely and got on with what people do enjoy playing.



Kartoshkaya #11 Posted 25 June 2019 - 08:50 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 26085 battles
  • 761
  • Member since:
    01-01-2015

View PostPabloGee, on 25 June 2019 - 03:43 AM, said:

1. Go to some op position

2. stay there what ever is going on just farm XP points in your batchat.

3. Your team  lossing? its better  you will have free dmg xp from woods.

4. sell you clip and run then try again

5.be 1st in losing team = win 

 

 

Reality is :

All players go to one op position

The other flank melts

You loose



Geno1isme #12 Posted 25 June 2019 - 09:28 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 47341 battles
  • 10,216
  • [TRYIT] TRYIT
  • Member since:
    09-03-2013

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 25 June 2019 - 07:35 AM, said:

Yes it is, everyone on the winning team should get a chevron, it discourages the desire to camp because you don't want to risk losing a chevron. It encourages team play and working together rather than letting someone die because you're afraid of taking damage.

 

Nonsense. We've had a chevron-neutral system already in Beta 2, and it was the worst season of all as in the end progression was mostly about RNG luck.

Only solution is to just get rid of this chevron crap completely and evaluate long-term metrics rather than single battle results.



gunslingerXXX #13 Posted 25 June 2019 - 09:35 AM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 12485 battles
  • 3,021
  • [GUNSL] GUNSL
  • Member since:
    11-16-2014

My personal summary:

  1. Wait a few days after the start to avoid the tryhards.
  2. Play a couple of battles, don't bother with premium stuf. 
  3. Get rewards for the first levels.
  4. Quit.
  5. Count your profit.

 

Nice. 

 

Also for the mode I think first on winning team +3, 2nd and 3rd +2, 4-15 +1.

Losing team all -1.

 



DeadLecter #14 Posted 25 June 2019 - 09:49 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 30570 battles
  • 1,742
  • Member since:
    05-28-2016

Problem is a lot bigger than what the OP said.

1) Regardless of winning or losing, stealing kills is rewarding. You don't damage the enemy, let your team farm the damage, and land the last shot. 

2) TX is totally unbalanced so as a result this mode is unbalanced. For example an IS-7 doesn't really stand a chance against a S.Conq or an AMX 30B is no rival for a 430U. 

3) The mode is balanced around the rank of players and not the type of tank, so one team might have 4 or 5 T95/FV4201 tanks while the other team has none. Doesn't take a genius to see the outcome of this battle.

4) Role XP is weirdly calculated and has some serious problems. Who in WG staff expects an AMX 50B to block damage? Why doesn't Leo 1 have a sniper role as well?

5) When your team is about to lose in randoms, you try to help them win. It might work sometimes. In ranked, if a player feels that his team might lose, instead of helping to turn the outcome, instead they go to a defensive position to farm end-game damage so they won't lose chevrons.

6) Double chevron bonus counts when you get a chevron and it still works when you are on the losing team. So on the losing team you can earn 2 chevrons if you are the top player and 2 or 4 while on the winning team. But since these double bonuses are limited it is not wise to use them when you are on the losing team. Because I no longer have the option to earn 4 chevrons.

 

My suggestions would be:

1) Only tech tree tanks should be allowed.

2) Top player on the winning team should get 3 chevrons, 2nd-5th players should get 2 and the rest should get one. The bottom 3 retain their chevrons.

3) On the losing team, top player gets 2. 2nd-5th get 1. 6th-10th retain and 11th-15th lose a chevron.

4) Kills should provide very very little xp so people stop waiting for getting the kill.

5) Role XP needs a complete rework and should have a bigger impact.

6) Instead of giving a number of double chevron bonuses, give fewer but daily double chevrons just like daily double xp but with a limited number.

 

This mode is competitive but still it is just a different variation of randoms so it shouldn't become a ranked marathon. It should be doable and right now it is not. And honestly it is not worth it either.

Driving yourself insane for what? Some gold and a tank that you will play just a couple times at first and let gather dust in your garage afterwards? I assure you, you won't even see it that often in randoms. 
Btw the entire game is ruined for me. I'm tired of all the crap WG pulls on us and have almost quit. These days I play PUBG. It is fun for now. I would rather play anything other than WoT. 

I completed all FL stages in the previous episode, but in this one I barely reached tier 15. This game is just not worth playing anymore. At least not for me. Every once in a while I miss the good o'l days and play a bunch of battles, then I see the game is the same crap and I quit again. It was fun while it lasted. I don't regret anything at all. I just hope that one day WG fixes the game so it becomes playable.


Edited by DeadLecter, 25 June 2019 - 09:50 AM.


TankkiPoju #15 Posted 25 June 2019 - 12:41 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 22791 battles
  • 6,968
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011

View PostDeadLecter, on 25 June 2019 - 09:49 AM, said:

In ranked, if a player feels that his team might lose, instead of helping to turn the outcome, instead they go to a defensive position to farm end-game damage so they won't lose chevrons.

 

This is actually the best thing to do often in randoms. People would do this in ranked more even without fear of losing a chevron.

 

All good players know when to leave the frontline and retreat back to snipe. Either flank is collapsing or they are one shots and can't afford to trade anymore.


Edited by TankkiPoju, 25 June 2019 - 12:42 PM.


Geno1isme #16 Posted 25 June 2019 - 01:23 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 47341 battles
  • 10,216
  • [TRYIT] TRYIT
  • Member since:
    09-03-2013

View PostHomer_J, on 25 June 2019 - 09:42 AM, said:

Fact is nobody really wants a proper ranked mode and even the half baked version we have needs a bribe to get people to play.  It's time WG just dropped the pretence completely and got on with what people do enjoy playing.

 

Fact is we never had a proper ranked mode to start with (well, except for the team battle variant that was cancelled after a few months). What WG calls "ranked" has always been just another grindmode. But in the end, the main question is what the russians want.

 

The closest thing we had to a real ranked mode was the march of nations event about two years ago.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #17 Posted 25 June 2019 - 03:24 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 33093 battles
  • 3,902
  • [FISHY] FISHY
  • Member since:
    06-13-2015

View PostOmniWalou, on 25 June 2019 - 06:51 AM, said:

 

But it already is encouraging winning and discouraging being useless in a winning team. Also rewarding the losing team from actually trying to win. The problem is that certain type of players see that losing team chevron as something to go for instead of fighting for the win. The mindset needs to change or take that reward out and replace it with a retained chevron.

 

It doesn't tho. On a Karelia game the enemy team was grinding south thru ours and would have won handily but our team held long enough for a couple of our tanks to go all the way around north and into the enemy cap circle. The enemy was a little slow reacting, presumably because nobody wanted to be the one to risk a chevron by abandoning the damage farm, so we ended up winning by cap. Just.

 

Of the two cappers that won for us what would have otherwise been a 100% guaranteed loss one came 10th place and got a chevron and the other came below and got nothing. So no, winning is not encouraged, mashing your face into the enemy and trying to do as much damage is.

 

You are right that the mindset of chasing that losing chevron needs changing and the way to do that is remove the temptation completely. Just changing it to a retain accomplished nothing, players will still screw the team over and fight over it to be best 'loser'.

 

View PostBalc0ra, on 25 June 2019 - 07:33 AM, said:

The only thing that would happen then is more or less as bad as leaving to red line farm. The second most see a loss is a sure thing. They will go idle or yolo to get it done. As they won't gain anything by losing good. So suddenly that 38% chance to win went down to 1%. So you lose badly all the time when you first lose. So then you get a different issue vs red line farming by only rewarding the best "losers"

 

 

I don't mind that players on the winning team that did nothing don't gain a chevron. It prevents bots from being carried up even. But the losing team is a tricky one to balance. Beta rewarded to many, so then half the team went redline farming the second a loss was a sure thing. Less so this time around, but you always have one. But I suspect changing that so they don't reward one on a loss, but don't lose one either on tops spots is the same thing. They will still do it not to go down in ranks. So it will still be something to go for if you will for some players.

 

If people give up then they lose a chevron guaranteed, if they try they might still get one. If a player thinks guaranteed loss is better than trying then not much anyone can do about that, but I still think it is a better alternative than seeing players throwing their team under the bus before the countdown has finished because XVM said so or they don't like the tank lineup and not even trying to help win.

 

How far do you think a bot is going to be able to progress relying on their team to carry them? They would have to be averaging a minimum 50%+WR just to even make any progress at all so this isn't an issue.

 

View PostGeno1isme, on 25 June 2019 - 09:28 AM, said:

 

Nonsense. We've had a chevron-neutral system already in Beta 2, and it was the worst season of all as in the end progression was mostly about RNG luck.

Only solution is to just get rid of this chevron crap completely and evaluate long-term metrics rather than single battle results.

 

Generally when there are multiple paragraphs one should attempt to read more than just the first one.



OmniWalou #18 Posted 25 June 2019 - 05:20 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 452 battles
  • 198
  • Member since:
    04-13-2019

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 25 June 2019 - 03:24 PM, said:

Of the two cappers that won for us what would have otherwise been a 100% guaranteed loss one came 10th place and got a chevron and the other came below and got nothing. So no, winning is not encouraged, mashing your face into the enemy and trying to do as much damage is.

 

You are right that the mindset of chasing that losing chevron needs changing and the way to do that is remove the temptation completely.

 

I do disagree with the notion that winning is not encouraged, it's just that winning by cap isn't encouraged. Capping grants too few exp points to be viable. That could be changed? Maybe, maybe not.

 

Block Quote

 Just changing it to a retain accomplished nothing, players will still screw the team over and fight over it to be best 'loser'.

 

I did point this out earlier too, but for sure it would result in less of that behaviour as one wouldn't get a chevron like it currently is. What should be considered is that it would be improvement to current situation and that should be a start. Of course the ideal solution was to not have anyone doing that kind of plays, but is there a solution for that? Penalising losing teams no matter what wouldn't imo be the solution to all cases, just some of them, same as this is solution to some of the cases, not all.

 



ExclamationMark #19 Posted 25 June 2019 - 05:36 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 16785 battles
  • 4,340
  • [IDEAD] IDEAD
  • Member since:
    04-12-2013

Are you being forced to play the gamemode (or the game even)?

No, so stop whining. If you don't enjoy it, do something else.


Edited by ExclamationMark, 25 June 2019 - 05:36 PM.


pecopad #20 Posted 25 June 2019 - 05:43 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 28198 battles
  • 1,924
  • [UGN] UGN
  • Member since:
    09-04-2015
No ammo cost, and I'll play ranked. I wont pay 50K a game to be a Hp piñata and others can get reward tanks.

Edited by pecopad, 25 June 2019 - 05:44 PM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users