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Wheeled Vehicles Too Fast (my old man reflexes can't keep up)(my idea of a Rebalance)

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CodexZen #1 Posted 27 June 2019 - 02:19 AM

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i am just saying that these WV are so fast that i can't aim properly at them and by the time i shoot the shot either misses or hits their wheels which for some reason don't break.

i can't see how A Vehicle can keep on driving after you shot out its wheel no..... YOU demolished the wheel IN real life if a tank is shooting at the wheels of a Vehicle Do you really think it can keep on driving NO if a tank shell would hit the wheels of that tank the sheer force and size of the tank shell would rip out most of the transmission with maybe 2-3 Wheels as-well out of 6-8 wheels i mean maybe like a machine gun will give those vehicles a flat tire that they can still drive with but slower but these are TANK SHELLS they should rip out a Wheeled Vehicles Transmission with some of the wheels aswell here are some links aswell:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=GW2U0qORdLE

 https://www.youtube....h?v=jgk5RSUnOhE

https://www.youtube....h?v=pFSIu7CyawI

 

While these are civilian Vehicles the same Principle should go for the wheeled Vehicles as-well

 

My idea how to Balance the Wheeled Vehicles they can keep their [edited]that they have right now too fast movement and auto aim and all that stuff.

1. They add in a actually Damageable wheels system and make the engine connected to the transmission so if a tank does shoot through the wheels it also has a chance to cause engine damage.

2. with current system of it only slowing down the vehicles when tires get damaged (since they cant obviously add more to the physics engine that the tank will actually lose wheels ( Not possible)) i would make it so that the can only repair their wheels while standing still for example:

 

Say the Wheeled Vehicle rushes near the enemy and provides vision he ducks and weaves 50% miss him while 40% maybe hit the wheels and 10% actually damage the tank that means around 2-3 wheels out of 6-8 need repair

(if the Wheeled Vehicle Damages more than Half of its wheels 4-5 then it will automatically move at a max speed of 20-40 Kmh

(Traverse is also Nerfed a lot if more than half your Wheels are Damaged)

(instead of the 80-105 Kmh) This change would give breathing room other tanks if they manage to hit the Wheeled Vehicle

(also would add more skill in to playing the Wheeled Vehicles (you would have to know when to disengage and when to press your advantage with your speed)

(can't repair while moving (my idea)) that means the would have to retreat back to the main column of the you're own team or take cover somewhere and wait out the wheel repair time i would say 10-15 sec repair per wheel (can be reduced by the repairs skill) this would make it to where if only 1 wheel was damaged a quick repair of 10-15 seconds but lets say you get 5 wheels damaged and you barely manage to make behind cover before the slowness sets in  that would take you around 50-75 seconds to repair fully this means the other team is free of your nuisance for about a minute (unless you of course only repair some wheels and then come back straight away)

(original idea was 20-25 sec per wheel but that is too much of a nerf)

i am trying to suggest a idea where they can keep their fast active scout role but will also have to eventually disengage and can't always stay on the move (they would need to repair their wheels) (other modules would have the default repair scheme (can be repaired on the move)(except the engine and wheels)(you have to be stopped to repair those 2 things)

i am not trying to nerf the wheeled vehicles just rebalance them so they are not as OP as they are now i Mean who the Heck is your Repair Man that he can Repair Your wheels on the move while moving about 80-100 Kmh Fricking Mission Impossible crap.

Image result for Mission impossible meme can repair wheels on the move

 

essentially with my rework idea you would have to be more careful where you drive (and hopefully there will be less Wheeled vehicle rushes)

Since right now if a Wheeled Vehicle rushes it has a higher than average chance to survive (unless your complete Trash)

with my rework if the Wheeled Vehicle does decide to rush it would put itself at greater risk since the engine can be damaged if shot in the wheels (27% chance)

Wheels are Damaged (100% of the time since they are a external module)

Anyway That was my Idea/rant of a rebalance of the Wheeled vehicles.

Feel free to comment your ideas/criticism of my idea of a rebalance of the Wheeled Vehicles

 

-CodexZen


Edited by CodexZen, 27 June 2019 - 02:20 AM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #2 Posted 27 June 2019 - 02:34 AM

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With only 1000 battles in I'd say you just need more practice. The wheelies, especially the lower tiers, really aren't that big an issue to deal with. 

CodexZen #3 Posted 27 June 2019 - 02:49 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 27 June 2019 - 02:34 AM, said:

With only 1000 battles in I'd say you just need more practice. The wheelies, especially the lower tiers, really aren't that big an issue to deal with. 

 

I agree with you that i need more practice definitely (but what did you think of my rebalance idea)?

xx984 #4 Posted 27 June 2019 - 03:00 AM

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Wheeled vehicles already underpowered as it is. 

CodexZen #5 Posted 27 June 2019 - 03:06 AM

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View Postxx984, on 27 June 2019 - 03:00 AM, said:

Wheeled vehicles already underpowered as it is. 

 

okay i will admit i was salty when i made this rant in the first place since in 7/10 games where i played my hellcat the EBR rushed me with its HE shells.

But i still stand by my idea of the Rebalance. they can keep their speed but make the wheels be connected to the engine (27% to hit) wheels (100% chance to hit since external module)



kaneloon #6 Posted 27 June 2019 - 03:08 AM

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About realism : on the french forum someone who was in the army in Amx 30 said they used those tanks as training targets and that shells went through them like butter.

 

About gameplay they probably need that to stay fun. Because being fun is their main objective.

 

That is probably why they nerfed arty too : that some good players could enjoy even more those wheels ;)



xx984 #7 Posted 27 June 2019 - 03:08 AM

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View PostCodexZen, on 27 June 2019 - 02:06 AM, said:

 

okay i will admit i was salty when i made this rant in the first place since in 7/10 games where i played my hellcat the EBR rushed me with its HE shells.

But i still stand by my idea of the Rebalance. they can keep their speed but make the wheels be connected to the engine (27% to hit) wheels (100% chance to hit since external module)

 

I dont mean anything bad by this, But you was probably in a bad position, you only have 1k battles which is understandable.

 

Even with a re balance the same would happen. they are fine as it is, and as i said before if anything they are under powered.



CodexZen #8 Posted 27 June 2019 - 03:08 AM

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My Problem with the Wheeled Vehicles is the fact that They ZIG ZAG around the Battlefield Like A Sugar High Kid under the influence of Cocaine.

:D

 

Well whatever its not like Wargaming cares about mongrels like me

 

Thanks for the Replyes i will agree that i need a lot more Experience to have a more valid opinion. 

i don't know really like i have a low amount of battles its mostly because i used to only play blitz i actually picked up Wot PC 04-04-2019 with a new account after i think 3-4 years.

here are some of my account stats from both games:

https://www.blitzsta...er/eu/codexruns (current)

https://www.blitzsta.../razorcodghosts (old)

https://www.blitzsta...yer/eu/ashleyxr (old)

https://en.wot-life....hell-521314328/ (old)

https://en.wot-life....xZen-561920670/ (current)

 

so all of my account togehter i have:

7600 battels on WoT Blitz

and 1059 battels on WoT

 

 

 

 


Edited by CodexZen, 27 June 2019 - 03:31 AM.


VonniVidiVici #9 Posted 27 June 2019 - 06:13 AM

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It's not just your reflexes that can't keep up with high tier wheeled vehicles. The vast majority of tanks in the game (at least those that aren't part of Team Powercreep) move too slowly, turn their turrets too slowly, aim their guns too slowly, and have shells that fly too slowly to be able to deal with these things without a heavy helping of RNG. The game was simply not designed with this kind of mobility in mind. Even WG agrees on that point; they specifically removed T-50-2 back in the day because it was doing pretty much what wheeled vehicles are doing now.

Balc0ra #10 Posted 27 June 2019 - 06:37 AM

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View PostCodexZen, on 27 June 2019 - 02:49 AM, said:

 

I agree with you that i need more practice definitely (but what did you think of my rebalance idea)?

 

You don't try to follow the tank with the aim, you aim ahead where you think it will be and let the aim settle and then fire right before he drives past it if he is at range. And if he is up close. You don't circle in the same spot trying to do the same. It won't happen. Just move up vs something instead. A dead enemy or friendly wreck, building, map red line... anything but turn in circle. As your fixes won't help if you can't hit it at all.

 

View PostCodexZen, on 27 June 2019 - 02:49 AM, said:

(but what did you think of my rebalance idea)?

 

The common theme with topics like these is that the creator has not played wheeled. Only fought vs them and thus is just frustrated. So vs most the discussion is one-sided if you will. The issue is that speed is the only half good tool they have, HE is the 2nd as their AP DPM is terrible. None of them don't make them good at the role WG wanted them to do sadly.

 

Engine damage on wheel hit would be like the Swedish TD's early on, or the German tanks back in the day that stood still, or caught fire the second you hit them head-on. A simpler fix would be to still have a module hitbox. But not an armored hitbox to make the wheels work like spaced armor, or make that thinner and reduce the gap. Meaning that if you hit it at an angle, then the wheels will take the hit only as the shell doesn't go near the hull. But at the side the armor takes the hit regardless.

 

Repair when standing still has been suggested before. And in most cases it won't make much of a difference. Either you slow it down so much you can hit it and take it out as is. Or he gets safe to repair them anyway. As the repair time on those wheels are not fast as is. And most wheeled lights carry two repair kits to counter it.

 

View PostCodexZen, on 27 June 2019 - 02:19 AM, said:

that means the would have to retreat back to the main column of the you're own team or take cover somewhere and wait out the wheel repair time i would say 10-15 sec repair per wheel (can be reduced by the repairs skill) this would make it to where if only 1 wheel was damaged a quick repair of 10-15 seconds but lets say you get 5 wheels damaged and you barely manage to make behind cover before the slowness sets in  that would take you around 50-75 seconds to repair fully this means the other team is free of your nuisance for about a minute (unless you of course only repair some wheels and then come back straight away)

(original idea was 20-25 sec per wheel but that is too much of a nerf)

 

Repair is already slower than anything and way past 10 seconds. But not one wheel at the time. Again as one that has played wheels. I can tell you that my wheels are orange or red for a majority of some battles or 1 on 1 fights. If it took 50 seconds to repair all wheels on a big hit for everyone. As that mechanic would not make speed skilled based tbh. But again... the easier fix would be to not make wheels spaced armor, but just a module hitbox. And also, this won't help if you can't hit them either. But once you can. At least they lose HP, and not just wheels that way.

 

View PostCodexZen, on 27 June 2019 - 02:19 AM, said:

Say the Wheeled Vehicle rushes near the enemy and provides vision he ducks and weaves 50% miss him while 40% maybe hit the wheels and 10% actually damage the tank that means around 2-3 wheels out of 6-8 need repair

(if the Wheeled Vehicle Damages more than Half of its wheels 4-5 then it will automatically move at a max speed of 20-40 Kmh

(Traverse is also Nerfed a lot if more than half your Wheels are Damaged)

(instead of the 80-105 Kmh) This change would give breathing room other tanks if they manage to hit the Wheeled Vehicle

 

Traverse is already affected if you lose too many wheels as is. And the more wheels you lose now, the slower it goes. My EBR won't do 80 when half the wheels are hit by arty. Then it won't even do 30. The issue is that the one that took out those wheels, don't get "track assist" if he takes damage going at 25 vs 80. If they simply just added 25% assist pr wheel up to 100%. Regardless of what speed he goes at. 



Bora_BOOM #11 Posted 27 June 2019 - 08:09 AM

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Can’t retaliate arta.

Can’t pen frontal tank armor.

Premium HE.

3k dmg clip.

2k dmg shells.

100 kph.

 

Nothing of the things listed above can be balanced. Among them wheels irritate players almost as artas do.



tajj7 #12 Posted 27 June 2019 - 09:40 AM

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They are balanced already, in fact some of the lower to mid tiers ones are underpowered, being in reality not much faster than lights and can't actually reliably avoid shells. 

 

Plus you have no issue with tracks being put back on instantly, something in reality would take a long time.

 

Its an arcade game, it has arcade mechanics. 

 

Hitting WVs is really not hard, people make a massive fuss about it, but then expect to be able to hit fast moving targets at like 400m with every tank and then try to claim they are broken when they can't. 

 

Pre-aim, predict where they are going, and give more lead than usual, at medium ranges you'll hit most shots and as someone that has ground up the lines of WVs, the whole dancing round the enemy team avoiding all the shots is basically a myth, 99 times out of 100 it doesn't work and you lose most if not all of your limited health.

 

WVs only really work avoiding fire if you plan very limited exposure hit and run attacks, using terrain to appear from an unexpected direction, get your shot off and have cover to retreat back behind, usually with at worst 1-3 people who could possibly shoot you. 

 

Playing against them is about awareness and predicting what they are going to do, plus positioning where it makes it difficult for them to attack you and will have them going into multiple guns so they end up paying for their stupidity. 

 

Most WVs from experience are usually dead within the first minute or two of the game, purely because most players using them seem to think that just driving fast and zig-zagging will keep them immune from lots of fire. 

 

But it doesn't, at like 300-400m maybe, but at sub 300m ranges, most mediums, decent gun handling heavies/TDs, will hit you and you can only really take like 2-4 hits of standard alpha on your tier before you are dead. 



Homer_J #13 Posted 27 June 2019 - 09:48 AM

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View PostCodexZen, on 27 June 2019 - 02:19 AM, said:

 

i can't see how A Vehicle can keep on driving after you shot out its wheel no.....

 

But it's OK to fix your tracks with the push of a button.

 

Really, when you try the realism argument in an arcade game you already lost.



lassekille #14 Posted 27 June 2019 - 10:21 AM

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The problem is that they sold a premium wheelie (which I have paid for myself). They cant nerf a vehicle players have paid real money for without offering everyone a refund. And those that have spent time (and money) grinding tech tree wheelies are not going to be happy either.

WG should have relalized these were a bad idea based on the tests. Now its too late.



Dava_117 #15 Posted 27 June 2019 - 10:28 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 27 June 2019 - 06:37 AM, said:

 

the easier fix would be to not make wheels spaced armor, but just a module hitbox. And also, this won't help if you can't hit them either. But once you can. At least they lose HP, and not just wheels that way.

 

 

Wheels are already just module. They have 5mm of armour, so nothing.

The problem of WV, if it can be defined as a problem, is that wheels cover a lot of space in the side while behind them there is mostly nothing.  In this way people aiming at the shape centre will have a good 40% of chance to hit the wheels under the hull, dealing 0 damage. If found that the best way to hit WV is to aim at the junction between turret and hull.



PlasticArmour #16 Posted 27 June 2019 - 11:00 AM

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They are too quick for us old timers to shoot but when i got one I found they're too quick to drive an all. I've run into so many innocent buildings now that maybe I shouldn't be allowed to drive.

Bora_BOOM #17 Posted 27 June 2019 - 11:19 AM

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The problems that I see with wheels are:

- if you are in a regular LT and there are wheeled ones in both teams you can count on not being the first getting to a certain advantageous position (Cliff lighthouse hill, mines center etc). So the LT role in that respect is kind of changed

- bad players just yolo and die in them

- other bad players just stop, turn their turrets to shoot them and waste their time. Wheels are first to spot/get spotted so an average bot reacts immediately instead of going to cover or going the way where they should

- the game pace is increased introducing them, so the slow tanks became even slower indirectly

- with them it is possible to yolo rush into 5 tanks and run away. that wasn’t possible before.

- in FL they are clearly very strong being able to cover huge distances, WG decided to reduce the number of LTs cause of that I am sure

- snap shots at full speed and airborne shots are ridiculous in a game that is generally slow paced shooter


Edited by Bora_BOOM, 27 June 2019 - 11:21 AM.


tajj7 #18 Posted 27 June 2019 - 11:32 AM

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View PostBora_BOOM, on 27 June 2019 - 10:19 AM, said:

The problems that I see with wheels are:

 

Block Quote

  if you are in a regular LT and there are wheeled ones in both teams you can count on not being the first getting to a certain advantageous position (Cliff lighthouse hill, mines center etc). So the LT role in that respect is kind of changed

 

True of any tank where the opposing tank is faster than you, or for example might have a clip, if you are in a M48 Patton you can't rush the hill on mines against a Bat Chat, but you could if there were no opposing meds.  Same if you are in a T92 light and you are facing like a HWK-30 or something, he will beat you there.

 

Block Quote

 bad players just yolo and die in them

 

Like they do in lights and most tanks then.

 

Block Quote

 other bad players just stop, turn their turrets to shoot them and waste their time. Wheels are first to spot/get spotted so an average bot reacts immediately instead of going to cover or going the way where they should

 

 

So bad players getting punished for their bad play, seems like a good thing to me, not a problem. 

 

Block Quote

 the game pace is increased introducing them, so the slow tanks became even slower indirectly

 

This makes no sense, speeds don't change, maps haven't changed size, so slow tank are just as slow as they were before.  They will take just as much time to reach point A as they did before, another tank being able to get to point A like 5s quicker than tanks used to is irrelevant. 

 

Block Quote

 with them it is possible to yolo rush into 5 tanks and run away. that wasn’t possible before.

 

This has been possible with lights in the past and still is, but in both scenarios, whilst it may be possible, majority of the time it does not work.

 

WVs being able to dance through the whole team's fire and out again is basically an overhyped myth. 

 

Block Quote

  in FL they are clearly very strong being able to cover huge distances, WG decided to reduce the number of LTs cause of that I am sure

 

No stronger than a host of other tanks and tanks like the Progetto are far more effective and more versatile. 

 

Block Quote

  snap shots at full speed and airborne shots are ridiculous in a game that is generally slow paced shooter

 

When the vast majority don't hit or pen its a pretty moot point. 

 

Not really see how any of your points are 'problems'. 



BlackBloodBandit #19 Posted 27 June 2019 - 12:32 PM

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Another whining topic about this.... next time use search function, as there are tons of topics about this already. at least every 2-3 days there's a new topic about this and people are still too lazy to use the search function, because all they care about is to spam the forum with their frustration.

 

View PostCodexZen, on 27 June 2019 - 02:19 AM, said:

...YOU demolished the wheel IN real life if a tank is shooting at the wheels of a Vehicle Do you really think it can keep on driving NO if a tank shell would hit the wheels of that tank the sheer force ..

who said this game is realistic? do you have rng in real life tanks as well? no, you don't and you can adjust the barrel until you hit the target.


Edited by BlackBloodBandit, 27 June 2019 - 12:34 PM.


onderschepper #20 Posted 27 June 2019 - 12:43 PM

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Groundhog Day anyone?

 

Further to BBB's point about WV posts being a daily staple of this forum, the American Forum has almost exactly the same posts with near identical replies.

 

For example: http://forum.worldof..._st__20#topmost

 

I'm looking forward to the addition of Russian, British and German wheelies, namely the Puma. :P







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