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WoT Supertest - British Light Tanks Branch - Tier X - Manticore


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ValkyrionX #1 Posted 28 June 2019 - 02:09 PM

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The time has come, as I’ve announced a few months ago, it’s time for the British to have a Light Tank branch up to Tier X and just in time for Tankfest 2019!

As you know, all high-tier light tanks are born scouts, but the role can be played differently. As for the British, they do it by leveraging their small dimensions, a good view range and outstanding guns. So, the very combination gives you a clear clue how to use these vehicles to the best result: nothing is better than to recon the enemy’s position while firing them from the least expected places.

All in all, four vehicles will be added to the British Tech Tree, all researchable from the Cromwell, a Tier VI medium tank. So, the complete branch goes as follows:

  • Tier VII: GSR 3301 Setter
  • Tier VIII: LHMTV
  • Tier IX: GSOR3301 AVR FS
  • Tier X: Manticore

It’s still early to share details of Tier VII to Tier X, these vehicles are getting fine-tuning in its full swing and Wargaming has come up with a concept for the entire branch that will, for now, be tested on the top vehicle. What is known for sure is that all tanks will sport small dimensions, LHMTV is smaller than the Bat-Chat 12t, while the profile AVR FS can be compared to that of the AMX 13 90, as well as imposing concealment abilities and a decent view range.

Tier X – Manticore

The branch is topped by the Manticore, a X Tier light tank. The name fits it perfectly as it is nothing short of a controversy of a vehicle. Despite being quite small (the Manticore is smaller than the T-100LT), it manages to bear a huge 105mm gun with excellent characteristics. Imposing armour penetration (248 mm with the standard AP round and 268 mm with the special APCR round), the alpha strike of 390 points, decent stabilization (when firing from a stationary position)—the vehicle’s got everything to be sought after. But let’s face it: it’s not perfect. Its DPM is far from impressive (4.29 shots per minute). Its stabilization when firing on the move is low. Its ammunition is so precious that you’ll have to think over each shot you are about to make.

The Manticore is a predator that can wait while opting for the best place to perform the best. Once the battle begins, it takes a beneficial position to scout and informs its team on the enemy positioning. It doesn’t have to run about the map—other light tanks will do it for the Manticore. Instead, it moves from one position to another, while gradually gaining its tactical advantage. Yes, the tank can play as a scout (and this is where its small dimensions will come in handy). But it’s passive scouting while providing fire support from a distance where its talents shine the brightest.

Each moment, you have to assess the situation and make decisions: is it safe to move further? Is it worth taking a shot to finish off the enemy? Or will your shot just give you away? Because, on the one hand, it’s a shame to keep such a gun idle. But on the other hand, one shouldn’t neglect the tank’s key role (that of a scout).

 

This is where the zest of playing the Manticore lies. You have to grasp its controversial nature and, having found the perfect balance between the passive scouting and active firing, tame this steel beast. Yes, it’s a challenge, but be sure, you will be rewarded with the thrilling feeling of unique power, that other light tanks can’t get their hands on!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At the moment, the vehicles are in the closed test phase. As said, Wargaming has chosen the branch’s top tank, the Manticore, to verify whether our gaming concept will work out. Once they’ve found the perfect balance between the firepower, concealment abilities and mobility within the given playing role, we’ll proceed to fine-tune the rest of the vehicles of VII to IX tiers.

 

source:

https://thedailybounce.net/world-of-tanks/manticore/

13:18 Added after 8 minutes

completely personal comment:

 

obviously looking at the tank it looks like a t92 premium at tier X.

I don't see the need to have other light tanks in the game.

 


Edited by ValkyrionX, 28 June 2019 - 02:16 PM.


Geno1isme #2 Posted 28 June 2019 - 02:22 PM

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http://forum.worldof...sh-light-tanks/

FluffyRedFox #3 Posted 28 June 2019 - 02:24 PM

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I'm so glad we have so many easily recognisable tanks in that line that people have been asking for for years. Like ey f*ck the Scorpion y'all can play the GSOR3301AVRFS, just rolls off the tongue don't it.

 



tajj7 #4 Posted 28 June 2019 - 02:24 PM

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Wow that looks utter crap.

  • 1.6k DPM for a start on a tier 10 tank.  :facepalm:
  • Poor on the move stabilisation, which is great for a paper light with no armour, just what you need. 
  • Accuracy and aim time more like a heavy tank, in fact more like a heavy tank with 490 alpha. 
  • +8 degrees of gun elevation which is awkward as all hell. That is 3 degrees worse than 50120, which I remember being really awkward. 
  • Mobility stats are meh (average hp/ton, average speed, poor traverse) 
  • Its rear turreted, to add to the annoyingness 
  • And the pen is bad for tier 10, but is supposed to be something special.

 

I like this quote -

 

Block Quote

 unique power, that other light tanks can’t get their hands on!

 

Which is not even true anyway cos the WZ has 390 alpha with that sort of pen. 

 

But is also something that is available in about 10 other tier 10 tanks that do that role MUCH better. Like the recently buffed Leo.

 

I mean what they have described there is kind of a tier 10 hellcat, but without the alpha, pen, DPM, aim time and accuracy of a Hellcat.

 

WG really do not like tier 10 lights, if that is their starting point for this tank, I can't see it being anything but a challenger to the Rhm for worst tier 10 tank.

 

They seem to think that being smaller with a little more camo than a T-100 (but no troll armour, no amazing gun handling and worse mobility) is somehow magic and will save the tank. 

 

I was looking forward to this line, but now I have seen the Senlac and this,and seeing they are both utter crap, I am not. 



ValkyrionX #5 Posted 28 June 2019 - 02:26 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 28 June 2019 - 02:24 PM, said:

Wow that looks utter crap.

  • 1.6k DPM for a start on a tier 10 tank.  :facepalm:
  • Poor on the move stabilisation, which is great for a paper light with no armour, just what you need. 
  • Accuracy and aim time more like a heavy tank, in fact more like a heavy tank with 490 alpha. 
  • +8 degrees of gun elevation which is awkward as all hell. That is 3 degrees worse than 50120, which I remember being really awkward. 
  • Mobility stats are meh (average hp/ton, average speed, poor traverse) 
  • Its rear turreted, to add to the annoyingness 
  • And the pen is bad for tier 10, but is supposed to be something special.

 

I like this quote -

 

 

Which is not even true anyway cos the WZ has 390 alpha with that sort of pen. 

 

But is also something that is available in about 10 other tier 10 tanks that do that role MUCH better. Like the recently buffed Leo.

 

I mean what they have described there is kind of a tier 10 hellcat, but without the alpha, pen, DPM, aim time and accuracy of a Hellcat.

 

WG really do not like tier 10 lights, if that is their starting point for this tank, I can't see it being anything but a challenger to the Rhm for worst tier 10 tank.

 

They seem to think that being smaller with a little more camo than a T-100 (but no troll armour, no amazing gun handling and worse mobility) is somehow magic and will save the tank. 

 

I was looking forward to this line, but now I have seen the Senlac and this,and seeing they are both utter crap, I am not. 

 

 

we must not forget that it is still in the initial test phase and certainly the current stats will be subject to changes

 

edit

 

I hope..


Edited by ValkyrionX, 28 June 2019 - 02:29 PM.


tajj7 #6 Posted 28 June 2019 - 02:30 PM

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View PostValkyrionX, on 28 June 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

 

 

we must not forget that it is still in the initial test phase and certainly the current stats will be subject to changes

 

Yes but if that is your starting point I don't have much hope, that is IMO a terrible tank and even a few buffs will make it just into a bad tank.

 

And a bad tier 10 light is basically the worst tank on tier 10. 

 

Plus gun elevation is unlikely to change and the rear turret is unlikely to change

 

FluffyRedFox  has also noticed the official thread some brilliant WG spin, them claiming its 'smaller than a T-100' when its not, they are counting an /infrared light on the T-100 visual model's turret as making it taller than it actually is, but that isn't in the collision model, so the T-100 is actually smaller. 


Edited by tajj7, 28 June 2019 - 02:34 PM.


FluffyRedFox #7 Posted 28 June 2019 - 02:31 PM

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View PostValkyrionX, on 28 June 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

we must not forget that it is still in the initial test phase and certainly the current stats will be subject to changes

Oh yea like how Panzerwagon has always been a complete and utter turd, then they went and nerfed it. Would not surprise me if a few HT drivers complain about its pen and then that gets nerfed on it with no compensation buff.

 



ValkyrionX #8 Posted 28 June 2019 - 02:32 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 28 June 2019 - 02:30 PM, said:

 

Yes but if that is your starting point I don't have much hope, that is IMO a terrible tank and even a few buffs will make it just into a bad tank.

 

And a bad tier 10 light is basically the worst tank on tier 10. 

 

Plus gun elevation is unlikely to change and the rear turret is unlikely to change

 

if they could give it a role similar to Sheridan for it would be good.. decent gun and camo rating, good mobility and an acceptable dpm plus accuracy

 

edit:

obviously I am trying in vain to do the devil's advocate .. unfortunately you are right and the starting stats are really disgusting .. we just have to wait to see what comes out of it

13:34 Added after 1 minute

View PostFluffyRedFox, on 28 June 2019 - 02:31 PM, said:

Oh yea like how Panzerwagon has always been a complete and utter turd, then they went and nerfed it. Would not surprise me if a few HT drivers complain about its pen and then that gets nerfed on it with no compensation buff.

 

 

luckily I don't play Germans except the t55a, unfortunately you're right and I don't understand why the panzerwagen is so bad without the wg doing anything sensible ..even the previous tanks are pretty crap ..

Edited by ValkyrionX, 28 June 2019 - 02:38 PM.


tajj7 #9 Posted 28 June 2019 - 02:46 PM

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View PostValkyrionX, on 28 June 2019 - 01:32 PM, said:

 

if they could give it a role similar to Sheridan for it would be good.. decent gun and camo rating, good mobility and an acceptable dpm plus accuracy
13:34 Added after 1 minute

 

luckily I don't play Germans except the t55a, unfortunately you're right and I don't understand why the panzerwagen is so bad without the wg doing anything sensible ..even the previous tanks are pretty crap ..

 

To be even half decent it would IMO need a heavy DPM buff to at least above 2.1k - 2.2k, an accuracy buff to at least 0.34, an aim time buff to like 1.8s and a dispersion buff so it has similar dispersions to a WZ-132-1. 

 

Then if it has like EBR-105 levels of camo it might be ok. 

 

We should also remember that WG are planning to nerf premium ammo, which will screw over the tier 10 lights heavily, as their penetration for tier 10 is utter crap and they have horrible pen drop off, so even 248 pen is doing like 180 at 500m, which can't even pen the sides of many heavies at range, cos you know light tanks aren't allowed to pen heavies from range even if they have good angles to their sides.

 

The Sheridan is crap, its just not as crap as the Rhm.

 

This is the current state of play of tier 10 lights -

 

Posted Image

 

Only the EBR is just about getting its head above the water, the others are basically very bad, if you ever wanted to lose more at tier 10, then you got for a tier 10 lights, they are on average knocking 3-5% off most players overall win rates, turning average 51% players into 47% tomatoes.

 

That is what we are working with, this new light line would be a great opportunity to make tier 10 lights more competitive, bring the new line in, buff the others, but nah, WG seem to be setting the bar even lower. 



ValkyrionX #10 Posted 28 June 2019 - 02:51 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 28 June 2019 - 02:46 PM, said:

 

...

 

100% right on what you say except that sheridan in my opinion is not as bad as you say

8126Jakobsson #11 Posted 28 June 2019 - 03:15 PM

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Funny how the Rhm always gets kicked around while the WZ, which one could argue is actually worse, completely goes under the radar. :P

tajj7 #12 Posted 28 June 2019 - 03:34 PM

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View Post8126Jakobsson, on 28 June 2019 - 02:15 PM, said:

Funny how the Rhm always gets kicked around while the WZ, which one could argue is actually worse, completely goes under the radar. :P

 

The WZ is not completely paper and at least has 390 alpha. Plus its a smaller, lower profile target. 

Sfinski #13 Posted 28 June 2019 - 03:35 PM

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Yup, in need of heavy buffing to make it even close to playable.

8126Jakobsson #14 Posted 28 June 2019 - 03:41 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 28 June 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

 

The WZ is not completely paper and at least has 390 alpha. Plus its a smaller, lower profile target. 

 

But its gun is absolute garbage and have half the depression. 

Sfinski #15 Posted 28 June 2019 - 03:43 PM

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View Post8126Jakobsson, on 28 June 2019 - 04:41 PM, said:

 

But its gun is absolute garbage and have half the depression. 

 

Probably still has the same or even better bloom values than this brit.

tajj7 #16 Posted 28 June 2019 - 03:47 PM

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View Post8126Jakobsson, on 28 June 2019 - 02:41 PM, said:

 

But its gun is absolute garbage and have half the depression. 

 

Aside accuracy, it has pretty much the same gun handling as the Rhm. (Rhm. has better aim time but WZ has better turret dispersion), and also has more alpha AND more DPM, cos reasons.

 

So aside the gun depression I think all round its better. 

 

They are all bad though, just Rhm. is the worst IMO. 



Paul_Kouadio #17 Posted 28 June 2019 - 05:30 PM

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This is not looking good for the tier X Brit LT. Maybe the other tanks in the line will be better (yeah right).

I don't really know what these guys want this thing to be at tier X. I'd still take the T100-LT,  AMX 13 105 or EBR over this thing. It's very generic, with it's 390 alpha, meh penetration, average accuracy at best, average viewrange, average hp/ton... 



baratoz1701 #18 Posted 28 June 2019 - 05:36 PM

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This is a joke isn't it? It's state are terrible, even if it has amazing camo it would just be boring AF to play. that dpm is tragic, the +8 elevation is unreal, and my god.......... it's ugly

Grand_Moff_Tano #19 Posted 28 June 2019 - 05:38 PM

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If this tank had been built in real life, the person who had designed it would have been taken out, put against a wall and shot, metaphorically of course since this is the UK, not Soviet Russia, but the sentiment is all the same.

 

The tanks design overall is just bad, and the problems only start at that gun, that 105mm gun is just too large for the chassis it is on, just firing it would break the suspension and turret ring, perhaps even crack the hull, and turning the turret port or starboard will tip the tank. Yes there is the Scorpion, which for its benefit has a gun half the size and with a muzzle break, but even its recoil is stupid in regards to it jumping back, this tank would probably fire once then face the other direction on its back.

 

Dear Wargaming, I'm a strong advocate at this point in sacking the person who thought this tank was a good idea.


Edited by Grand_Moff_Tano, 28 June 2019 - 05:39 PM.


Balc0ra #20 Posted 28 June 2019 - 05:54 PM

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Size comparisons tier for tier

 

Tier 7

Spoiler

 

Tier 8

Spoiler

 

Tier 9

Spoiler

 

Tier X

Spoiler

 

Seems small sizes, speed, high alpha with low ammo and passive spotting is the key here. Now the tier X looks trash on paper. But I've thought that about tanks before that have surprised me. So who knows.

 

And from the Cromwell? Well might as well start doing a daily on it and start farming XP now vs later when everyone does it.






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