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A personal venture - gold-ammo abstinence

gold gold ammo premium ammo special ammo standard ammo ammo premium premium tank premium tanks

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HassenderZerhacker #21 Posted 29 June 2019 - 09:21 PM

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View Postcro001, on 29 June 2019 - 05:25 AM, said:

Yeah, I'm not surprised about WR drop, I've been playing 4funTM in ranked a bit without premium consumables/gold shells and let me tell you that NOT doing damage when you should have is game changer - your WR just starts to sink.

 

let's turn this around - doing damage when you shouldn't is a game changer and brings much extra WR

baratoz1701 #22 Posted 29 June 2019 - 10:19 PM

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Why are you blue :P

BrinklyWollox #23 Posted 29 June 2019 - 10:28 PM

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View Postbaratoz1701, on 29 June 2019 - 09:19 PM, said:

Why are you blue :P

 

View PostExclamationMark, on 29 June 2019 - 09:11 PM, said:

Nothing wrong with the automated system, it is flawless. :)

 

;)



Joggaman #24 Posted 29 June 2019 - 10:39 PM

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NOOB!!

SuedKAT #25 Posted 29 June 2019 - 11:08 PM

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View PostExclamationMark, on 29 June 2019 - 04:11 PM, said:

Yeah. Sadly, I couldn't find a way to do this. I believe wotzilla used to be able to do that, before it was taken down (i.e. it could display tanks played during a certain period). I couldn't find another website or application that could do that, aside from wotnumbers, but that seemed bugged. Like it was taking Frontline battles into consideration, or something. Either way, the calculations were off.

It's not updated to work with the latest version but it might still be working: http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/185348-1500-wot-replay-analyzer-wip-1-04052019/

Should give you quite a detailed view of all the stuff you're looking for.

 

As vixu said I also suspect that it will make a lot more of a difference depending on the tank, my 190 mm base pen and 268 mm premium pen Pershing which I'm currently is grinding for sure makes me feel that way at least.



LordMuffin #26 Posted 30 June 2019 - 07:49 AM

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View PostExclamationMark, on 29 June 2019 - 04:11 PM, said:

 

Yeah, I agree.

But there are a multitude of factors at play here. For example, a lot of the "regular" tanks I tend to play are generally strong tanks. Not saying overpowered (though some of them have been) - but I don't enjoy playing bad tanks. I guess it's just a competitive mindset, that I don't enjoy intentionally putting myself at a disadvantage just by playing a tank which is bad.

Am I saying that the premiums I played were bad? No, but in comparison to what my tank selection would have previously been, overall, it is worse.

 

 

I would say practically every player is guilty of doing that, whether it is often or not. I certainly do it, but when I do it almost always tends to be end-game when the outcome is already decided.

It's trying to force yourself out of that habit of doing it early that can make a huge difference. 

 

 

Wouldn't mind one right about now... Summer heat is starting to rear its ugly head. :mellow:

 

 

100 just seemed too easy at the time, and something that I could achieve very quickly. I'm not saying 100 isn't a lot - it is, and far more than I had ever reached previously - it just didn't seem like an ambitious goal... Or something.

Like I mentioned in another reply, there's a good reason I decided to stop yesterday - tank discounts. :P

I'm back down to 33 mil, after buying over 60 tanks and equipping some T10s in preparation for the upcoming campaign.

After the campaign, I think I'm going to go back to credit grinding. Haven't got bored of it just yet, shockingly. Will either set a new goal of 50 or 100 million - probably the latter.

 

 

Yup. Though I don't really want to turn this into another topic to argue about gold ammo and armour, there's already plenty of those every day... 

 

 

Yeah. Sadly, I couldn't find a way to do this. I believe wotzilla used to be able to do that, before it was taken down (i.e. it could display tanks played during a certain period). I couldn't find another website or application that could do that, aside from wotnumbers, but that seemed bugged. Like it was taking Frontline battles into consideration, or something. Either way, the calculations were off.

I would guess that the winrate difference between using premium ammo and not are not mainly because of damage done (the difference you had was limited) but due to which tanks and which parts of the map you are able to contest and damage.

 

If you with premium ammo is able to contest and maybe win a important part of the map, but without it are forced to retreat and give that part up, and instead take a less important part, because there is low-armoured tanks there to shoot. Then this will influence your WR even if your damage stays more or less equal.

 

What damage you do is just as important as how much of it you do.

 

I also noticed the Patriot and Skorpion G as 2 of the three tanks. Both of them have a pretty nice std pen  (230 and like 258 (?)). The Type 59 on the other hand have a rather lackluster std pen (181?). So I would guess that the Type 59 is most effected.


Edited by LordMuffin, 30 June 2019 - 07:51 AM.


iztok #27 Posted 30 June 2019 - 10:03 AM

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View PostExclamationMark, on 28 June 2019 - 11:08 PM, said:

...

Officially ended @ 28/06/19 with 140m credits

...

 When I play my premium tanks, I want to be as profitable as possible - not using gold in my premium tanks is a habit I'm going to stick to.

 

 

With only meager 140M on account you REALLY need to be as profitable as possible. :P

 

Anway, good post. :great:



Lanrefni #28 Posted 30 June 2019 - 11:40 AM

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Trying to induce less spam? Not happening.

FTR #29 Posted 30 June 2019 - 01:07 PM

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Nice planned effort to defend gold ammo. You can do exactly the same test, use exactly the same results but deferent words to say gold ammo is bad for the game.

 

Gold ammo obviously increases your chance to penetrate, whenever you know about weakspots or not, because even if you miss you have better chance to pen. You also have better chance to pen said weakspots because it's not all weakspots are "weak", some weakspots are just thinner parts of the armor but not thin enough to guarantee penetration.

 

Difference between using no gold ammo and total gold ammo spam surely affects your playstyle and results.

 

Many pro players do not even think about it, because they basically want to maximize their chance of penetration and knowing or not knowing weakspots has nothing to do with this. They obviously gonna aim at weakspots either way and play as well as good can, moving around and flanking people.



Zodiac1960s #30 Posted 30 June 2019 - 01:19 PM

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View PostseXikanac, on 29 June 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

 

I never use gold, does that mean I'm above average player?

No,  it means you will have problems penetrating some tanks by choice. 

 



ExclamationMark #31 Posted 30 June 2019 - 02:00 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 30 June 2019 - 07:49 AM, said:

I would guess that the winrate difference between using premium ammo and not are not mainly because of damage done (the difference you had was limited) but due to which tanks and which parts of the map you are able to contest and damage.

 

If you with premium ammo is able to contest and maybe win a important part of the map, but without it are forced to retreat and give that part up, and instead take a less important part, because there is low-armoured tanks there to shoot. Then this will influence your WR even if your damage stays more or less equal.

 

Yep, that is definitely a contributing factor. Though as mentioned, it is likely due to a combination of multiple factors (all caused either directly or indirectly by neglecting to use gold ammo).

 

View PostFTR, on 30 June 2019 - 01:07 PM, said:

Nice planned effort to defend gold ammo. You can do exactly the same test, use exactly the same results but deferent words to say gold ammo is bad for the game.

 

If you interpreted this as a post to defend gold ammo then you either didn't understand it correctly or are just manipulating it to suit your own agenda.

That or you didn't read everything, which given how long the post is I would forgive you for.

Either way you are wrong.



shane73tank #32 Posted 30 June 2019 - 09:59 PM

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Btw OP , I’m glad you’ve found another way to enjoy the game as the forum is more colourful with you around

 

a well written and interesting post - can’t imagine those dingers approve of it , wait until they sober up after tank fest :popcorn:



SuedKAT #33 Posted 30 June 2019 - 11:17 PM

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View Postshane73tank, on 30 June 2019 - 09:59 PM, said:

can’t imagine those dingers approve of it , wait until they sober up after tank fest :popcorn:

He will always be a nub Dinger to us regardless ;)



ExclamationMark #34 Posted 30 June 2019 - 11:51 PM

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View PostSuedKAT, on 30 June 2019 - 11:17 PM, said:

He will always be a nub Dinger to us regardless ;)

 



chainreact0r #35 Posted 01 July 2019 - 08:12 AM

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View PostExclamationMark, on 29 June 2019 - 04:11 PM, said:

Yeah. Sadly, I couldn't find a way to do this. I believe wotzilla used to be able to do that, before it was taken down (i.e. it could display tanks played during a certain period). I couldn't find another website or application that could do that, aside from wotnumbers, but that seemed bugged. Like it was taking Frontline battles into consideration, or something. Either way, the calculations were off.

Noobmeter does that pretty well.

On topic: I have never in my life spammed gold while playing tier 8 premiums (with e-25, type 64 etc. i do it since i don't play those tanks for their credit making capabilities). This has been my policy since i bought my first premiums, kv-5 and type-59 7 years ago. All my premium tanks have a max of 5 gold rounds and no food(except progetto in which i can get away with food and vents instead of optics, ebr and lt-432 for the view range advantage) and i only fire the gold when i run out of ammo. 

On techtree tier 8, 9 and 10 i spam gold to my heart's content :trollface: and i wouldn't have it any other way. In my eyes, playing elite tier 9 and 10 tanks is solely for enjoyment and i personally achieve that through performance. It's costly AF with the food added on top, especially in the deathstar or auto-loaders, but currently i enjoy my skorpion and lowe in which i never use gold or food, and i get a relaxing experience without feeling useless performance wise. I bought 5 tier 10 tanks in the span of 3 weeks and whenever a friend hits me up with a tier 10 platoon i waste ~3-500k credits/session, but credit making has been trivialized in such a ridiculous way that i can afford it without having the negative feeling of grinding whenever i play tier 8 prems.



Lanrefni #36 Posted 01 July 2019 - 08:56 AM

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View Postchainreact0r, on 01 July 2019 - 09:12 AM, said:

On techtree tier 8, 9 and 10 i spam gold to my heart's content :trollface: and i wouldn't have it any other way. In my eyes, playing elite tier 9 and 10 tanks is solely for enjoyment and i personally achieve that through performance. It's costly AF with the food added on top, especially in the deathstar or auto-loaders, 

I agree.

I went 60% APCR in AMX 50 B.

The only tank I actually don't use that much gold in, frankly, is the K-91, simply considering it's fastest APCR shells in the game.

It's all quite expensive, but there is always a price to pay, for everything you gain.



KanonenVogel19 #37 Posted 01 July 2019 - 12:29 PM

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Good post OP :great:

 

And I'm glad that you've helped to puncture the myth that it's affordable by everyone. You're a far above average player, and even you noticed the significant cost difference, now imagine a true average player, or even a bad player. It's not even an option for them to consistantly shoot premium ammo. Thus, they decide not to shoot it, and you noticed yourself the result of not using it. And now once again keep in mind that you're a good player, so you can somewhat "compensate" for the lack of penetration by picking other positions etc, a worse player has much bigger problems with that.

 

I agree with you that premium ammo does not make a player better, but it increases the players performance level. It's important to understand the different between these two. A players skill level is determined only by game knowledge and game experience, while a players performance level is a combination of a players skill level and a players equipment. Basically, skill level is a subset of the performance level.

 

So, for anyone that agrees with OP's post, and for OP himself, I just want to remind you to push the idea forward that all shells should cost the same when WG brings forward a premium ammo rework. In fact, having high penetration rounds doesn't require the shells to have a premium cost.



Noo_Noo #38 Posted 01 July 2019 - 12:56 PM

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I took +note of the OP's section on damage and WR more than anything as many moons ago I went from playing frugally with the T54 to full HEAT when trying to finish the grind and turn round some pretty awful stats I had in the tank. 

Did it help? Not really, a little perhaps. One thing I do remember is that my damage per game rose by approximately 1 penetrating shot. Hardly earth shattering but worth noting that it is similar to the OP's findings. But please not I was going full gold at the time. For me the premium was purely and RNG reduction factor and cost me crazy credits to get 1 extra shot of damage

Aurorab1ade #39 Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:03 AM

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Nice to see someone else actually trying to forego the gold for a while to experience the game's supposed core gameplay balance. It can be rather harrowing to realise just how much of an impact using gold can have on personal performance. It isn't a win button but it is as damn close to one as you'll get.

 

The only thing that I have to disagree with though is your #1 shell choice. AP simply isn't it. It is a great shell type for the reasons you mentioned but HEAT is easily better. Overmatch can be useful at times but odds are if you've got an overmatch shot, you've likely got a HEAT pen shot too. But the real advantage from HEAT is the ultra high shot opportunity window - I mean the angle of impact where the shell will attempt to penetrate. Auto bounce vanishes almost completely when you're firing HEAT. Moreso, it opens a lot of additional ways to pen tanks that you simply can't attempt with AP/APCR. Having a little height over the target isn't very useful with AP/APCR unless it gives you an overmatch shot whereas it is a guaranteed HEAT pen  since the armour is so thin. The infamous E 75 / VK 45.02 B turret? Shot straight through the forehead. On the Tiger II that is an overmatch for 120mm guns but not in the tier IXs. HEAT doesn't care. AP/APCR only have 1 trick that no other shells have and that is ricochet shots - like shooting an angled Maus' turret cheeks near the bottom to force an auto-bounce (not a failed pen roll) to ricochet down into the engine deck. Those however are heavily RNG dependant to pull off so I can't in good conscience put them in the same league as the benefits of HEAT.

 

Well, I've sabotaged the encouragement of reducing gold but hey, they're not going to sling it any less anyway. Now I'm just helping to arm the rest. Have fun with your newfound love/hate relationship with HEAT.


Edited by Aurorab1ade, 11 September 2019 - 09:07 AM.


Ceeb #40 Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:15 AM

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Rarely fire gold as it is, I believe I must have been a Yorkshireman in my past life.

 

However.

 

AMX 13 57, is full gold :)

T55A is full gold.

 

 






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