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Special Ammo - Analyze and solution?


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Poll: Special Ammo is... special (35 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Is the analyze correct?

  1. Yes (3 votes [8.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.57%

  2. Most of it (9 votes [25.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.71%

  3. Not everything (8 votes [22.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.86%

  4. No (15 votes [42.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.86%

Is the proposed solution good?

  1. Yes, i approve every point (3 votes [8.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.57%

  2. Most of it is good (4 votes [11.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.43%

  3. Some good ideas, but not enough (10 votes [28.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.57%

  4. Not at all! (18 votes [51.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.43%

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Seisset #1 Posted 29 June 2019 - 11:23 PM

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Hello fellow tankers,

 

First of all, let's get some points out of the way:

1) I am not here for whining about that old topic

2) I am not an english native speaker, so forgive the mistakes i might make

3) This is not an idea i got on the toilet this afternoon... I have been thinking about that problem for a long time, and finally decided to write about it.

 

So... what are we talking abou? The beloved special/premium/gold ammunition. Everybody knows it, most of us hate it to a certain degree, but most of us also use it.

Yes... me too, the author of this thread is using some gold shells, but i am one of the cheap guys below the beloved 5%-gold-mark... more below 1%. I have some special ammunition on certain tanks, but i only use them on very rare occasions. So, why am i writing about it? Well, I won't tell you something new if i write, that special-ammo is one of the biggest problems for the game so far... for me personally even bigger than matchmaking issues, overpowered tanks and so on. The problem persists for a long time now, and is getting worse not better. I recently had a friend who started as a new player in wot, I drove with him on the low tiers, and it was really weird to see the amount of gold thrown around there... i had thought that it was a high tier problem, but no... and I had no way to explain why someone would play gold only in his autoloader at tier2 when a shot costs more than houndered times the price of a regular shot.

We could leave it here and say "Hey, everybody can do it, so it's not a problem"... yes, everybody can, but not the same amount. Playing gold-only is credit-expensive, and without premium tanks, premium account and so on you can't do it to such an extend. So, it's a clear case of pay-to-win right? Personaly for me this is not the biggest problem, for me it's the fact, that the game is destroyed: a lot of important parts of the game get watered down, for example, using your armor effectively is meaningless, and on the other side knowing your opponents, the weakspots of tanks is not that important anymore... just load 2.

There was a big outcry when the premium ammo of the japanese heavies at tier9&10 were unveiled, but honestly... that wasn't worse than before. In this special case you made more damage consistently per shot, with the special-ammo on other tanks you made the same damage more often... in the end, a damage increase in both cases.

Now wargaming is trying to solve the problem, and for me that was one of the best news of the last years in wot... but how will they make it? Changing the ammo is a problem, because weakening that ammo type on premium-tanks? I think wargaming is famous for not liking to touch those type of products, and for obvious reasons (and personally i understand that). So, the last idea was to improve all other ammo-types? Well, wellcome to balance hell?

Thinking through all those points i wanted to find the real concern i have with special ammo... and i finally came to this conclusion:

 

The problem is not special ammo existing, but the ammount that is thrown around!

 

It's the easy way: load gold, it increases your performance and decreases the ammount of thinking required to play (yep, that is a drastic description, but hey...)

Clearly a high cost doesn't deter people from using gold-only loadouts, it just makes the gap between players willing to spend more real money and the free-to-play players even bigger. I can understand, that for a cmpany like wargaming paying players are better, but at a certain point the game should keep a balance to be enjoyable for everybody.

So, is there a way to change the situation? Perhaps an easy one without the problems changing too much at the rest of the game? For me yes, and it's rather easy:

 

Limit the amount of the special amunition a tank can carry.

 

I don't want to give specific numbers, but let's just say a tank can carry a maximum of 10% special amunition, the rest can be chosen freely.

To counter obvious objections:

No, I am not talking about 4,6 special shots if your tank has a magazine for 46 shots, here you can round the number down or up, as it pleases wargaming

Tanks with magazines should get a number that represents one or more full magazines, not partial ones.

Tanks that "require" to shoot gold by design should get small buffs (even though i think, that no tank should be designed like that in the first place, but that's a whole new point)

 

What would be the positive points about this idea?

1) No need to change the amunition as it is now

2) Special ammunition would be really special. With a limited amount it will be precious, you would not want to waste it on every target you meet. Thinking about when you use special-ammunition it would bring more tactic and finesse to the game (yes, finesse and special-ammunition in one sentence, I did it!)

3) Knowledge about your tank, and your opponents tank becomes much more important, re-increasing an interesting aspect of the game.

4) Probably easier (and therefor cheaper) to implement into the game than chaging the whole balance between tanks?

 

I am just an average player, with some years and battles under my belt. I may not be a genius but still i try to analyze problems if i think i find them, and try to find a solution to them. I really love this game, that's the reason why i care. There may be a lot of other flaws, and i don't have solutions for all of them, but in this case I will at least try to write down my ideas and solutions, perhaps they can help in some way. 

Let me know what you think about it, thanks for reading so far.

mfg

 

Ciao

Seisset

 



TungstenHitman #2 Posted 30 June 2019 - 01:27 AM

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No it's not that simple. You could simplify the solution with balance and in my opinion +- 1 tier MM. Limiting premium alpha, blah blah blah, no. Why no? Well, this game is a selfish game as much as a team game. So, if you are the heavy tank, playing in a game with limited amounts of premium ammo will still not really make any difference to you personally since your opponent, or one of them anyway, will see he can't pen your heavy tank with standard ammo and just use his limited amount of premium ammo on you. So, you will notice foch all difference, you will still get boned with premium ammo just the same as now and the enemy tank most likely had no option but to use premium ammo since he could not pen your tank otherwise most likely.

 

If you are playing a papery tank then why even get annoyed if you are being shot with premium ammo unnecessarily? You are going to get penned by everything ANYWAY so why give a foch? In fact, consider yourself lucky you are being shot by a gold spamming noob because if he had a brain he would have selected HE and you have even more reason to cry and he would have saved a lot of credits.

 

It's all about balance really, standard pen, accuracy, weak spots and of course tiering. Want an example of fairness and balance? Well, I can only think of my current grind off the top of my head, a Standard B. now, lets compare that tier 9 medium tank to a tier7 medium tank, lets say T-43, which MM will make their tiers meet. Ok, so both of these mediums have to fight a teir8 IS-3 with frontal armor not much weaker than 180mm apart from the roof if your gun has the ability to reliably hit it during a scrap. Well, the Stand-B won't be bothered or effected by any changes to premium ammo since it's standard ammo has 268 pen, 1450 rail APCR shell velocity as standard and 360 alpha... actually X3 since it's an A-R, so the tier8 IS-3 player who thought his heavy tank will walk through enemy meds will cry and whinge that a medium tank just 1 tier higher can bend him over and do what he wants with his tank, ok, now we know and we can see how nerfed premium ammo really makes foch all difference for the IS-3 player and Stand-B player.               Now, let's carry on with this example and see how the tier 7 T-43 gets on with a premium ammo nerf, same battle, against the same  IS-3 enemy tank. The T-43 has 144 pen and 180 alpha along with 950 shell velocity. That's not even in the same league as the Stand-B and will NOT trouble that IS-3 frontally one little bit, apart from a luckers roof shot it simple will never be able to pen that IS-3. So the T-43 player selects premium ammo and gets, 194mm of pen. This is still a real roll of the the dice and RNG will very much decide if he pens that IS-3 even with premium ammo. In both cases the IS-3 will have no problem knocking shots through both of these meds with standard ammo.

 

So, would you honestly limit or nerf the premium ammo of that T-43 player? This is just a typical battle example, not using convenient strong vs weak etc you could use many for same situation. This doesn't even factor in so many other seriously important points worth making such as stock guns, sucky guns etc. As I've always said, I see no problem with the current system so long as the balance remains as unbalanced as it currently is. You give all tanks the sort of standard pen, tier for tier, like the Stand-B, Leo, Udes etc has, and you give idiotic dumb over armored tanks genuine weak spots and a balance in which all tiers that face each other can pen each other at least somewhere frontally with standard ammo and we have no problem in fact you could remove premium ammo entirely. But that's not going to happen any time soon, so this idea of yours does not work nor does that idiotic flat brained sand box idea of buffing standard ammo alpha and tanks hp since you can see how tank with high standard pen and alpha would just lap up the good times since they don't struggle to pen tanks with standard ammo anyway so those type of tanks would be empowered and of course dumb dumb over armored tanks would also have good times. 



Oh and just to expand on how badly the sandbox idea would fail and how this game is more about balance than ammo type, lets take same tier meds like the mentioned Standard B and Leo. So what would happen in this moronic universe is these rail gun medium tanks with excellent gun handling and massive standard pen would get their ammo buff bringing their alpha from most likely 360 and 420 to something like 420 and 500, both of which will comfortably be using without really ever needing the use of premium ammo. Meanwhile tanks like the T-54, aka the HEAT-54 with its pathetically cringe 201 pen slow shell velocity wobbly handling Russian will most definitely need to press the 2 key and will be still hitting buffed hp tanks for 320 alpha. So in this clueless sand box offering not only do standard ammo tanks with high pen like the Stand-B, Leo, tier8 UDES TD etc thrive and can play as cheap as they get and do more damage than before but sappy standard pen 2 key tanks like the T-54 get nerfed for having no choice but to play with premium ammo. Not just get effectively nerfed but to add insult to in injury they'll not only be doing far less damage than their high standard pen counterparts but also be getting credit screwed for the premium ammo playstyle too. Having 15-30% less alpha/dpm has never felt so good eh?
 

Edited by G_Bg_82, 02 July 2019 - 11:53 AM.


SuedKAT #3 Posted 30 June 2019 - 04:56 AM

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Nah it's not that simple as TungstenHitman said, it's an idea that's been suggested many times before however even if you limit the amount of premium ammo a tank can carry the main issue remain, the necessity for it on certain maps and in certain tanks. With the current balance and map design which highly favours frontal engagements you have the main issue, tanks used to have frontal weakspots which gave players the incentive to use standard ammo and it rewarded players who knew how to hide their weakspots. Now you have tanks like the VK 100.01P which face tanks like the IS-6 in a corridor, without premium ammo the IS-6 have about 30-40% chance to pen the lower plate if it's flat on, slightly angled and it's down to 20-25%, the rest of the VK's front is an auto bounce apart from some pixels on the cupola, the VK on the other hand needs to be rather unlucky to not pen the IS-6 with auto aim. Limiting the amount of premium ammo tanks can carry will buff the VK and nerf the IS-6 which effectively will make the balance even worse.

 

Plenty of players come here and cry over premium usage, sure it's an issue but there is also a reason why there is a HT meta and most well armored tanks are among the top performers, they are more forgiving. WG have spent years teaching it's playerbase that in the current environment, balance and maps etc you need to fire premium ammo to even out the horrific balance WG have implemented to give us an incentive to use free XP on "bad tanks and/or modules". The main issue is that as soon as you start nerfing premium ammo you're not fixing the problem, you're just nerfing the tanks that currently are the performing the worst and doing the opposite to the top performers. 

 

Personally I'm currently grinding through the Pershing, a tier 8 MT with 190 standard pen and pretty meh mobility, limiting the amount of premium ammo or nerfing it in some way won't fix anything, it will just nerf that specific tank even more, same with for example the HT equivalent the T32 which is a tier 8 HT with 198 pen. Both those tanks and many more are only playable in the current environment since you can offset their 2015 balanced state with premium ammunition and if you put them up against something like a VK 100.01P or the Defender in one of the many corridor maps you have the main issue and reason why people use premium ammo.



UrQuan #4 Posted 30 June 2019 - 08:29 AM

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OP your proposal is sound & you already commented on some of the issues that could arise when this would be implemented, showing you put alot of thought in it & really go for a balanced approach. And it could work (even tho I never been a fan of 'limit the amount of prem ammo' idea) in a balanced environment

 

But the core of why it wouldn't work is because of how armor has changed over the years. Many of the newer tanks have very strong armor for their tiers & it isn't limited to HT's. What didn't help matters is the removal of proper weakspots on almost all armored tanks. 

 

Any idea that revolves around changing premium ammo must also include a rework of armor. Because currently, armor is just too powerful a factor in the game with too few drawbacks on having strong armor.

 

PS: Reason the jap derp gun gold ammo was so negatively received was because it was simply a better shell in every way compared to the standard shell. Compare this to most tanks where using prem ammo does have some drawbacks. HEAT has several & hence can fail where standard shells could pen. APCR has some too but minor (higher drop of pen over range & less normalisation)

Only other scenario where prem ammo would be almost a straight upgrade would be for tanks that use APCR as standard ammo & got AP as premium ammo (on condition that the pen is higher). 

 

Also, something that often gets missed is this: HE spam increase. Bad players often spam HE when their standard/prem shell don't work. To me; HE spam is alot more annoying then prem ammo spam. I can angle for prem ammo in my armored tanks, I can't do that for HE shells. But as i drive armored tanks, i can still absorb that well; Less armored tanks on the other hand can get seriously crippled from a few HE shells shot at them.

It is something to consider: when you can only bring a limited amount of prem shells, some folks will carry around more HE shells.

 

That said, I thank OP for making a nice & well formulated thread about prem ammo & how to change it.


Edited by UrQuan, 30 June 2019 - 08:40 AM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #5 Posted 30 June 2019 - 08:39 AM

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1. Make gold ammo the same price as standard ammo

2. Remove standard ammo.

3. Everyone fires gold.

 

 Light armour tanks get penned anyway so it doesn't matter. Heavy armoured tanks will still be able to bounce some rounds so they have some survivability. Everyone else, just try not to get shot. :)

 

Fixed!



mpf1959 #6 Posted 30 June 2019 - 02:46 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 30 June 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

1. Make gold ammo the same price as standard ammo

2. Remove standard ammo.

3. Everyone fires gold.

 

 Light armour tanks get penned anyway so it doesn't matter. Heavy armoured tanks will still be able to bounce some rounds so they have some survivability. Everyone else, just try not to get shot. :)

 

Fixed!

 

Simple idea, way too simple for WG I think, this is a bit like turning up to a broken PC and first, checking the fuse, WG seem like the kind that first removes the mobo and cpu for testing. ;)

SilentFear #7 Posted 30 June 2019 - 04:28 PM

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View PostSeisset, on 29 June 2019 - 10:23 PM, said:

Hello fellow tankers,

 

First of all, let's get some points out of the way:

1) I am not here for whining about that old topic

2) I am not an english native speaker, so forgive the mistakes i might make

3) This is not an idea i got on the toilet this afternoon... I have been thinking about that problem for a long time, and finally decided to write about it.

 

So... what are we talking abou? The beloved special/premium/gold ammunition. Everybody knows it, most of us hate it to a certain degree, but most of us also use it.

Yes... me too, the author of this thread is using some gold shells, but i am one of the cheap guys below the beloved 5%-gold-mark... more below 1%. I have some special ammunition on certain tanks, but i only use them on very rare occasions. So, why am i writing about it? Well, I won't tell you something new if i write, that special-ammo is one of the biggest problems for the game so far... for me personally even bigger than matchmaking issues, overpowered tanks and so on. The problem persists for a long time now, and is getting worse not better. I recently had a friend who started as a new player in wot, I drove with him on the low tiers, and it was really weird to see the amount of gold thrown around there... i had thought that it was a high tier problem, but no... and I had no way to explain why someone would play gold only in his autoloader at tier2 when a shot costs more than houndered times the price of a regular shot.

We could leave it here and say "Hey, everybody can do it, so it's not a problem"... yes, everybody can, but not the same amount. Playing gold-only is credit-expensive, and without premium tanks, premium account and so on you can't do it to such an extend. So, it's a clear case of pay-to-win right? Personaly for me this is not the biggest problem, for me it's the fact, that the game is destroyed: a lot of important parts of the game get watered down, for example, using your armor effectively is meaningless, and on the other side knowing your opponents, the weakspots of tanks is not that important anymore... just load 2.

There was a big outcry when the premium ammo of the japanese heavies at tier9&10 were unveiled, but honestly... that wasn't worse than before. In this special case you made more damage consistently per shot, with the special-ammo on other tanks you made the same damage more often... in the end, a damage increase in both cases.

Now wargaming is trying to solve the problem, and for me that was one of the best news of the last years in wot... but how will they make it? Changing the ammo is a problem, because weakening that ammo type on premium-tanks? I think wargaming is famous for not liking to touch those type of products, and for obvious reasons (and personally i understand that). So, the last idea was to improve all other ammo-types? Well, wellcome to balance hell?

Thinking through all those points i wanted to find the real concern i have with special ammo... and i finally came to this conclusion:

 

The problem is not special ammo existing, but the ammount that is thrown around!

 

It's the easy way: load gold, it increases your performance and decreases the ammount of thinking required to play (yep, that is a drastic description, but hey...)

Clearly a high cost doesn't deter people from using gold-only loadouts, it just makes the gap between players willing to spend more real money and the free-to-play players even bigger. I can understand, that for a cmpany like wargaming paying players are better, but at a certain point the game should keep a balance to be enjoyable for everybody.

So, is there a way to change the situation? Perhaps an easy one without the problems changing too much at the rest of the game? For me yes, and it's rather easy:

 

Limit the amount of the special amunition a tank can carry.

 

I don't want to give specific numbers, but let's just say a tank can carry a maximum of 10% special amunition, the rest can be chosen freely.

To counter obvious objections:

No, I am not talking about 4,6 special shots if your tank has a magazine for 46 shots, here you can round the number down or up, as it pleases wargaming

Tanks with magazines should get a number that represents one or more full magazines, not partial ones.

Tanks that "require" to shoot gold by design should get small buffs (even though i think, that no tank should be designed like that in the first place, but that's a whole new point)

 

What would be the positive points about this idea?

1) No need to change the amunition as it is now

2) Special ammunition would be really special. With a limited amount it will be precious, you would not want to waste it on every target you meet. Thinking about when you use special-ammunition it would bring more tactic and finesse to the game (yes, finesse and special-ammunition in one sentence, I did it!)

3) Knowledge about your tank, and your opponents tank becomes much more important, re-increasing an interesting aspect of the game.

4) Probably easier (and therefor cheaper) to implement into the game than chaging the whole balance between tanks?

 

I am just an average player, with some years and battles under my belt. I may not be a genius but still i try to analyze problems if i think i find them, and try to find a solution to them. I really love this game, that's the reason why i care. There may be a lot of other flaws, and i don't have solutions for all of them, but in this case I will at least try to write down my ideas and solutions, perhaps they can help in some way. 

Let me know what you think about it, thanks for reading so far.

mfg

 

Ciao

Seisset

 

 

How did you miss the only realistic point why people use large loadout of prem ammo ( tomatos that thik they will be unicums if htey only fire gold excluded ) ?

 

Armor. When you face bobject or Sumo tank whit low penetration gun you have a single option. Premium ammo - and even then there is only few places where you can pen. Same with the T95 etc etc.

 

So to lower the prem ammo spam - rework the broken armor. 



Seisset #8 Posted 30 June 2019 - 05:04 PM

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It seems some here miss one important point about what i was trying to propose:

 

No, i don't want to get rid of special ammuntion, i want to make it more situational.

 

If you face a well armored tank, you should be able to use it, thats why a certain amount should be allowed. That's exactly the situation for what this ammo is designed for, and that's when you should use it. If you spam it around at the start of the game against scouts and end up against a heavy tank head on, well... if you wasted it before you shouldn't complain. Personally those are the situations where i use this ammo, and i carry about 10% around with me. Most of the time i don't use it at all, but in those situations... yes.

mfg

 

Ciao

Seisset

 

 



SuedKAT #9 Posted 30 June 2019 - 05:17 PM

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View PostSeisset, on 30 June 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

It seems some here miss one important point about what i was trying to propose:

 

No, i don't want to get rid of special ammuntion, i want to make it more situational.

 

If you face a well armored tank, you should be able to use it, thats why a certain amount should be allowed. That's exactly the situation for what this ammo is designed for, and that's when you should use it. If you spam it around at the start of the game against scouts and end up against a heavy tank head on, well... if you wasted it before you shouldn't complain. Personally those are the situations where i use this ammo, and i carry about 10% around with me. Most of the time i don't use it at all, but in those situations... yes.

mfg

 

Ciao

Seisset

 

 

 

The thing is if you limit the amount of premium ammo a tank can carry you'll for example nerf the tier 8 T32 with 198 standard pen quite a bit more than the tier 8 T34 with 248 standard pen, especially in a bottom tier match since the T32 needs a healthy amount of premium to be competitive in the same environment that the T34 still will be able to pen things with standard ammunition. So before you put your idea into practice you need to rebalance tanks around the mechanic quite a bit and that's something WG ain't really keen on doing since without stinkers, without horrible stock grinds we won't use gold to free XP as much.

Bordhaw #10 Posted 30 June 2019 - 06:02 PM

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View PostSeisset, on 29 June 2019 - 10:23 PM, said:

Special Ammo - Analyze and solution

 

 



JCD3nton #11 Posted 01 July 2019 - 11:38 AM

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Just make gold ammo the same price as standard ammo. I don't care about the rest.

Taramtum #12 Posted 01 July 2019 - 12:22 PM

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Hmm. Interesting. All who cry for lost {gold} premium ammo: I plays random battles without premium ammo. I play with 170 - 190 mm penetration on tier 8 against T10 too. It is not easy but is fun and not impossible like presents crying load-skill players.  And working armor makes WoT good game.

Special ammo degrade WoT to simple shooting game. You don't know who to penetrate? Load skill. You must change position to penetrate? Why? Load skill! You must wait to aim end? Why? Load skill! On T9/10 the team which loads more skill win. Fast win. It's so boring for both sides.

 

I agree with Seisset.

 

Fast suggestion because I have no data to do better idea, only WG have it :-)

Special ammo:

max 30% better penetration but at least 20% lower damage.

ACPR: + better accuracy {12%} but a bit lower alfa compare to HEATs

Other parameters unchanged ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



vasilinhorulezz #13 Posted 01 July 2019 - 01:20 PM

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As I said before, WG needs to drop down the whole concept of premium ammo, make them all regular, balance accordingly and rework tanks and maps, give weakspots, give each ammo type clear advantages and disadvantages, and remove the corridor meta, and give flanking opportunities for lights and mediums. Now, you meet a Superheavy and the only thing you can do is fight him frontally. Maus, 430U, 268 V4, Super Conqueror, Type 5 are immune to standard ammo, what do you expect people to do, shoot HE? Of course they will load the Gold.

Edited by vasilinhorulezz, 01 July 2019 - 01:20 PM.


Ultrastorm #14 Posted 01 July 2019 - 07:30 PM

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View PostTaramtum, on 01 July 2019 - 11:22 AM, said:

Hmm. Interesting. All who cry for lost {gold} premium ammo: I plays random battles without premium ammo. I play with 170 - 190 mm penetration on tier 8 against T10 too. It is not easy but is fun and not impossible like presents crying load-skill players.  And working armor makes WoT good game.

Special ammo degrade WoT to simple shooting game. You don't know who to penetrate? Load skill. You must change position to penetrate? Why? Load skill! You must wait to aim end? Why? Load skill! On T9/10 the team which loads more skill win. Fast win. It's so boring for both sides.

 

I agree with Seisset.

 

Fast suggestion because I have no data to do better idea, only WG have it :-)

Special ammo:

max 30% better penetration but at least 20% lower damage.

ACPR: + better accuracy {12%} but a bit lower alfa compare to HEATs

Other parameters unchanged ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly! I'm playing without gold. And yes its possible to reach my stats with standard munition. I can carry games, i can bounce shots, but in some cases, the enemies are better just because of the gold.

Here is one little example:

Me in my E100, angle the front to the enemies. They bounce. And suddenly they can pen me with premium munition at the same angle. That is unfair. I cant trade again like i did it before.

 


Edited by Ultrastorm, 01 July 2019 - 07:36 PM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #15 Posted 01 July 2019 - 08:15 PM

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View PostSeisset, on 30 June 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

It seems some here miss one important point about what i was trying to propose:

 

No, i don't want to get rid of special ammuntion, i want to make it more situational.

 

If you face a well armored tank, you should be able to use it, thats why a certain amount should be allowed. That's exactly the situation for what this ammo is designed for, and that's when you should use it. If you spam it around at the start of the game against scouts and end up against a heavy tank head on, well... if you wasted it before you shouldn't complain. Personally those are the situations where i use this ammo, and i carry about 10% around with me. Most of the time i don't use it at all, but in those situations... yes.

mfg

 

Ciao

Seisset

 

 

 

How is that different to the situation now?

 

If you are in a superheavy and get hit by gold is that not the situation in which he should be using it? If you are in a light with no armour and get shot by gold what difference does it make when standard would have penned you as well?

 

 

 

 



dex_1950 #16 Posted 01 July 2019 - 08:41 PM

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*edited*

 

First of all, people should be allowed to use whatever they like.

Second, there is RNG. When you facing 280mm of armor, with 300mm AP shell there is a possibility to roll under, and you don't want that. You want a solid chance, so you dab 2 key for 420 mm of PEN just to be sure. RNG kills a little bit of skill and awareness because every shot is a roulette. Will you roll your dmg, will you hit the center, will you roll enough pen. Too many variables to be sure. 

 

And yes, we have way more important issues... 

 

 


Edited by G_Bg_82, 02 July 2019 - 11:57 AM.
edited due to inappropriate remarks


Ultrastorm #17 Posted 01 July 2019 - 09:00 PM

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View Postdex_1950, on 01 July 2019 - 07:41 PM, said:

*edited*

 

First of all, people should be allowed to use whatever they like.

Second, there is RNG. When you facing 280mm of armor, with 300mm AP shell there is a possibility to roll under, and you don't want that. You want a solid chance, so you dab 2 key for 420 mm of PEN just to be sure. RNG kills a little bit of skill and awareness because every shot is a roulette. Will you roll your dmg, will you hit the center, will you roll enough pen. Too many variables to be sure. 

 

And yes, we have way more important issues... 

 

 

 

Its a game with tanks

tanks -> armor is most important --> soooo ????

shells are very important. And armour of tanks

work on that. remove gold and balance the inseane turret armour of many tanks and so on


Edited by G_Bg_82, 02 July 2019 - 11:57 AM.


WhoCares01 #18 Posted 02 July 2019 - 08:28 AM

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View Postdex_1950, on 01 July 2019 - 08:41 PM, said:

...

 

First of all, people should be allowed to use whatever they like.

Second, there is RNG. When you facing 280mm of armor, with 300mm AP shell there is a possibility to roll under, and you don't want that. You want a solid chance, so you dab 2 key for 420 mm of PEN just to be sure. RNG kills a little bit of skill and awareness because every shot is a roulette. Will you roll your dmg, will you hit the center, will you roll enough pen. Too many variables to be sure. 

 

And yes, we have way more important issues... 

 

 

And where is the skill in loading full gold? Wouldn't it be more skillful play to effectively manage a limited supply and decide against which targets to use it?

One thing so, such a limitation of the amount of gold shells someone can load will probably more affect the more skilled players that live long enough and fire more than two or three shots per battle - scrubs can still start with firing their gold contingent and rarely ever run out of it, even if it was limited.


Edited by WhoCares01, 02 July 2019 - 02:55 PM.


dex_1950 #19 Posted 02 July 2019 - 08:29 AM

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View PostUltrastorm, on 01 July 2019 - 09:00 PM, said:

 

Its a game with tanks

tanks -> armor is most important --> soooo ????

shells are very important. And armour of tanks

work on that. remove gold and balance the inseane turret armour of many tanks and so on

 

Yeah armor is obsolete. Especially with boxy thick tanks.

 

Problem isn't high pen, the problem is a coridor map and lack of weak spots. I'm playing tanks since 2011, I remember when GOLD was GOLD, and tanks like Type59, Maus and crap, just steamrolls because nobody can pen him. Also sometimes you want a premium because of the other benefits. Like hitting LT with APCR because the shell is so much faster. 

 

 

This is the "issue" that doesn't need addressing. 

 

EDIT:

Why the [edited]you even care driving all those SPGs...



Ultrastorm #20 Posted 02 July 2019 - 02:21 PM

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I wrote a text on German. I know that was not correct. I accepted it and edited this to English.

Now the message isn't online any more. Why?

I don't know if G_Bg_82, the moderator was deleting it...He also edited more messages in this topic.

I'm also aware that this is a very critical topic to talk about, but i I accept the warning and changed the language to English. So no need to delete my comment...

Am i not allowed to write ironic messages?

 

 

 

 






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