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Warning about grind2win future


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thiextar #1 Posted 04 July 2019 - 06:59 PM

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Just here to warn you guys, this is currently happening in world of warships: https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/120436-st-naval-training-center-free-premium%C2%A0consumables%C2%A0and-improvement-of-the-matchmaker/

 

If it goes through there, its most likely coming to world of tanks next, please help stop it.


Edited by thiextar, 04 July 2019 - 07:00 PM.


r00barb #2 Posted 04 July 2019 - 07:19 PM

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Can this stay on the Warships forums? There's already been an announcement that they're scaling back the level of increases from repeated grinds following the initial feedback (facebook link) and there's no indication that this will come to Tanks. WoT already gives veteran players OP reward tanks, there's simply no reason to introduce this as well.

thiextar #3 Posted 04 July 2019 - 07:25 PM

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View Postr00barb, on 04 July 2019 - 07:19 PM, said:

Can this stay on the Warships forums? There's already been an announcement that they're scaling back the level of increases from repeated grinds following the initial feedback (facebook link) and there's no indication that this will come to Tanks. WoT already gives veteran players OP reward tanks, there's simply no reason to introduce this as well.

 

If wargaming make loads of money from it in warships, its defenitely coming to wot.

 

And scaling back doesnt sove anything, no matter how small they make the buffs, they will become mandatory.



Balc0ra #4 Posted 04 July 2019 - 07:26 PM

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WOWS has done lots of stuff that never made it to other games that players here panic about. Inc selling tier 9 premiums, and adding premiums in the tech tree from tier 8 to X for free XP etc. Just because they do it... Don't indicate we will see it. 

 

I mean you do recall how the crew emblem idea went? Based on the feedback on that topic. I will be amazed if they go with it. As WOWS have had some "ruff sea" of late with their players, inc the recent CV change that did make the population dip. I doubt they want to risk more dips on bad ideas. As this sounded like something to get people back to grind more than anything. 



thiextar #5 Posted 04 July 2019 - 07:28 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 04 July 2019 - 07:26 PM, said:

WOWS has done lots of stuff that never made it to other games that players here panic about. Inc selling tier 9 premiums, and adding premiums in the tech tree from tier 8 to X for free XP etc. Just because they do it... Don't indicate we will see it. 

 

I mean you do recall how the crew emblem idea went? Based on the feedback on that topic. I will be amazed if they go with it. As WOWS have had some "ruff sea" of late with their players, inc the recent CV change that did make the population dip. I doubt they want to risk more dips on bad ideas. As this sounded like something to get people back to grind more than anything. 

 

Thats the thing though, they just had a stream about it, and they are absolutely adamant to implement it in this fashion. To the point where they were mispresenting peoples arguments because they didnt know how to counter them.

r00barb #6 Posted 04 July 2019 - 07:44 PM

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View Postthiextar, on 04 July 2019 - 06:28 PM, said:

To the point where they were mispresenting peoples arguments because they didnt know how to counter them.

 

That's it, that's one of my triggers. Where was this stream? I need to go spam the comments with memes that only I find amusing while the majority of right-thinking folk stick me on ignore. :izmena:

 

On topic, I think Warships is beginning to struggle and there's a real lack of higher level content. Clan stuff hasn't taken off as well as it has in Tanks, players have left because of the CV changes, etc. It's gotten so bad that they've even introduced a battle royale mode. That's why I don't think this has much, if any, risk of coming to Tanks.



TankkiPoju #7 Posted 04 July 2019 - 07:48 PM

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View Postr00barb, on 04 July 2019 - 07:44 PM, said:

It's gotten so bad that they've even introduced a battle royale mode. That's why I don't think this has much, if any, risk of coming to Tanks.

 

Ironically WoT already had a BR mode on test servers in the rampage game mode. Everyone apparently hated it.

 

You can even still read it from WoT's portal pages: https://worldoftanks...mpage-mode-new/

 

"New Feature: Gas Cloud"



Homer_J #8 Posted 04 July 2019 - 09:23 PM

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View Postthiextar, on 04 July 2019 - 07:25 PM, said:

 

If wargaming make loads of money from it in warships,

 

If WG makes a load of money from warships. :D:D:D

 

Compared to Tanks it's a failure, that's why they reinvent it every few months.  Much like planes.



Negativvv #9 Posted 04 July 2019 - 11:31 PM

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Two different teams work on their respective games I believe...

Also WoT has already got blueprints which WoWS hasn't got. Plus Tanks has been around far longer and has way more players still.

I quit WoWS this Jan as I felt the game had run it's course and WG changes have ruined it for me.

Balc0ra #10 Posted 04 July 2019 - 11:59 PM

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View Postthiextar, on 04 July 2019 - 07:28 PM, said:

 

Thats the thing though, they just had a stream about it, and they are absolutely adamant to implement it in this fashion. To the point where they were mispresenting peoples arguments because they didnt know how to counter them.

 

I know they had a stream about it. And what more or less did happen there. Was that everyone was against it. And the host demanded "real questions" that never came. If that's not a strong enough signal. Nothing will be.

 

But again... WOWS have done many things like this before. None of that has made it to WOT. So I don't see why this should either. As we get a topic like this every single time WOWS does something. Heck even WOWS had a topic about us getting training manuals for silver, and thought they would get something like it that would ruin it for them they thought. But as was said above, two different dev teams. As 90% of the changes to either WOWS or WOWP never make it here. The last 10% is basically what we begged for ages to get. Inc the dual lane garage carousel filter they made for WOWS. So with so many changes never going to other games. I don't fear this will either.

 

Again I suspect it's more of a thing to get people back play and be rewarded for it than anything. As they lost a fair bit of players in the last update. I hope they are not that silly that they push an update that might seem to do the same... again. As their game is also built up differently. Inc XP. And we got a buff to premium that would kinda make that pointless.


Edited by Balc0ra, 05 July 2019 - 12:06 AM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #11 Posted 05 July 2019 - 08:47 AM

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Never understood people getting their panties in a bundle over things that might possibly happen. How about waiting until their is some definite proof that WoT is contemplating implementing something unfavourable and then making your point, ex. Rubicon? 

mtnm #12 Posted 05 July 2019 - 09:17 AM

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Even if they did implement this in WOT, since the MM is random it will not matter that much. You can just go and fight against your equivalent enemy tank just like now. If you don't have an equivalent enemy tank or you two haven't found yourselves during the battle then the odds will improve if you play one more battle.

Dava_117 #13 Posted 05 July 2019 - 10:01 AM

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OP, do you mean the feature to power up ships? 

I would probably like it, especially if you have to chose what each power up brings to the tank. I would gladly add some tens of mm of armour to certain tanks, would add stabilization to other. If well balanced with some drawback (weight for armour or turret traverse for stabilization in example) it can bring more depth to the game mechanics!

 

Edit

IMO needing to reset a whole branch is a bit too much. I would set the chance to reset a single tank so you need to research it again from stock.

However tank stats, crew and equipment should stay too IMO.

 

Edit2

Thinking again about this, the reset part is hardly applicable to WoT as many big nation tech tree got a lot of shared module between lines.

Still a way to further improve and costumize your favourite tanks would be nice, even if it require some grind. 


Edited by Dava_117, 05 July 2019 - 11:41 AM.


Kartoshkaya #14 Posted 05 July 2019 - 10:47 AM

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View Postthiextar, on 04 July 2019 - 06:59 PM, said:

Just here to warn you guys, this is currently happening in world of warships: https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/120436-st-naval-training-center-free-premium%C2%A0consumables%C2%A0and-improvement-of-the-matchmaker/

 

If it goes through there, its most likely coming to world of tanks next, please help stop it.

 

Doesn't matter if wot get a longer grind. With recent premium changes, wot's grind have never been so fast. And no, i don't Care about F2P peasants.



kaneloon #15 Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:11 PM

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Could someone summarize the idea there ? I tried to but really didn't understand it.

facmanpob #16 Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:17 PM

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View Postkaneloon, on 05 July 2019 - 11:11 AM, said:

Could someone summarize the idea there ? I tried to but really didn't understand it.

 

I think it essentially means that if you have completed a line up to Tier X, you can reset the line, selling all the ships and module upgrades and then grind the line over again. The carrot is that the second time you grind the line you will be able to apply bonuses to the ships of that nation from Tier VI upwards, so that they are better than the standard version of the ships. There will be restrictions on how many resets you can do per season ('a few' months) and to get to higher levels of bonuses you will have to do the same reset over multiple seasons.

r00barb #17 Posted 05 July 2019 - 05:59 PM

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Further update on this from the Warships Development Blog ...

 

facebook link (source)

Changes in the Naval Training Center system

Dear players,

After many discussions and feedback analysis, we decided to change the direction of Naval Training Center development to meet your expectations and resolve your concerns.

The part of NTC connected with resetting and revisiting ship lines will stay, however, the rewards will be fully reworked. The design process for this is not an easy task, so we can not share a lot of details right now. But what we can share is the new general concept:

- We will fully remove direct performance buffs for ships which were originally presented in this system. Your feedback on this was clear, and we don't believe that reducing these buffs further is any good (it will not resolve your concerns, and make the reward not interesting at the same time);

- We will instead focus on unique, interesting, but non-mandatory content, like new ships. For a start, we confirm that French tier X cruiser Colbert and US tier X battleship Ohio will be the first rewards for NTC. They will be available in the Armory for a special resource earned by revisiting the ship lines during seasons.

- The new resource earned will take the place between casually accessible coal and much more rare steel, which is mostly locked behind competitive.

- We will invest our resources in exploring other types of rewards. For example, while we're heavily limited by the game lore itself, we will try to design some new cosmetics to make your ships look cool and show off your achievements. Another option for the future rewards are Legendary upgrades. Introduced in the game long time ago, they offer a trade-off, a change in playstyle of a specific ship instead of a direct buff. In any case, additional rewards will take more time, and we will be happy to hear your new ideas.

We know that the last few days were very heated, and we also know that the reason is that you love the game and care for it. We do, as well, and we're not taking the opposite side here. While we need to introduce more high-end progression to ensure the game will be healthy and evolving for years to come, we want to do it together with you. There is a lot to work on now, but we're sure that in the end, we will get to the good, appealing system which all of us will be able to enjoy.

We will keep you updated, and please expect more news as soon as we make progress in development.

Thank you, and see you soon!

 

TL;DR - WoWs development team listened to feedback and have abandoned plans to provide ship upgrades through re-grinding. Rewards will now focus on cosmetics and a couple of high tier premium ships that will be offered exclusively for tokens earned from re-grinds.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #18 Posted 06 July 2019 - 07:11 AM

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View Postr00barb, on 05 July 2019 - 05:59 PM, said:

Further update on this from the Warships Development Blog ...

 

 

TL;DR - WoWs development team listened to feedback and have abandoned plans to provide ship upgrades through re-grinding. Rewards will now focus on cosmetics and a couple of high tier premium ships that will be offered exclusively for tokens earned from re-grinds.

 

Impossible. WG don't listen to their community, haven't you heard?

Banelord #19 Posted 06 July 2019 - 08:12 AM

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View Postr00barb, on 05 July 2019 - 04:59 PM, said:

Further update on this from the Warships Development Blog ...

 

 

TL;DR - WoWs development team listened to feedback and have abandoned plans to provide ship upgrades through re-grinding. Rewards will now focus on cosmetics and a couple of high tier premium ships that will be offered exclusively for tokens earned from re-grinds.

 

Better decision IMO.

I would like to do more tank specific missions like: Do 50K damage in tank X to earn a re-skin or camo/ emblem etc.



Enherjaren #20 Posted 06 July 2019 - 08:20 AM

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View Postr00barb, on 05 July 2019 - 05:59 PM, said:

Further update on this from the Warships Development Blog ...

 

 

TL;DR - WoWs development team listened to feedback and have abandoned plans to provide ship upgrades through re-grinding. Rewards will now focus on cosmetics and a couple of high tier premium ships that will be offered exclusively for tokens earned from re-grinds.

 

That is something I would like to see in WoT as well. A much better idea IMHO.

Edited by Enherjaren, 06 July 2019 - 08:20 AM.





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