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Lack of vehicle variation


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gav00 #1 Posted 05 July 2019 - 07:01 AM

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I used to play this game mainly because of the massive variation in vehicles I would meet on the battlefield, each brawl used to feel unique because it would usually be with a different selection of tanks each time.

 

But recently I have noticed that the community has completely abandoned the niche and unique vehicles in place of the most commonly sighted vehicles. Even with the relatively new tech tree lines, of which most tanks are rarely ever seen after the initial excitement, most people seem to be defaulting back to the same old stuff.

 

What's more is that I feel players used to experiment and try new plays and locations on a given map, something which has completely disappeared now, with all of the heavies going the same route, the scouts all running in each other's track marks, and all of the TDs crammed into the same bush.

 

Not to mention the same 3 or 4 maps on repeat. Something which has been an issue for a much longer time. 

 

This has made the game exceptionally boring for me and is a reason I am playing a lot less nowadays.

 

This is not an observation of the lack of imagination by the player base, but more that WG has forced a very heavy and unrelenting meta with badly balanced tanks and unimaginative map design. All of which I feel is a death knell of the game.

 



XxKuzkina_MatxX #2 Posted 05 July 2019 - 07:27 AM

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There is a lack of imagination on the players' part and on WG's. The fact is you'll eventually get bored be it after 1k battles or 100k but what we do and what WG enables surely doesn't help.



facmanpob #3 Posted 05 July 2019 - 07:38 AM

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View Postgav00, on 05 July 2019 - 06:01 AM, said:

 

 

Not to mention the same 3 or 4 maps on repeat. Something which has been an issue for a much longer time. 

 

 

And yet I played 11 battles last night and didn’t see the same map twice!



gav00 #4 Posted 05 July 2019 - 07:38 AM

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View Postfacmanpob, on 05 July 2019 - 07:38 AM, said:

And yet I played 11 battles last night and didn’t see the same map twice!

 

Then you got extremely lucky.

Ch1valry #5 Posted 05 July 2019 - 08:39 AM

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The best solution is to not spend money on the game. When cash flow stops, WG will react. If we keep throwing money at them, they'll think everything they do is fine and no changes will take place.

Bigtime_Alarm #6 Posted 05 July 2019 - 10:00 AM

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But you MUST play the tank that everyone says is the best. You MUST go to the same spot on the same map every time. You MUST employ the same tactics every match. If you don't you will have low WR and low WN8 and everyone will call you a noob!!!!!!!!

Edited by Bigtime_Alarm, 05 July 2019 - 10:00 AM.


iztok #7 Posted 05 July 2019 - 10:30 AM

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View Postgav00, on 05 July 2019 - 07:01 AM, said:

Lack of vehicle variation.

IMO there's too many vehicles. In early days I needed to remember some 20 armor layouts (and weakspots) of tougher vehicles. Now I'd need 200. :(

 

But I agree, there's not much variation in game-play. One simply needs to repeatedly perform way too many acts if he want's to stay competitive and cash-positive. This is especially true in high tiers - one of the reasons I don't like them.

 

BR,  Iztok



Homer_J #8 Posted 05 July 2019 - 10:34 AM

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View Postgav00, on 05 July 2019 - 07:01 AM, said:

I used to play this game mainly because of the massive variation in vehicles I would meet on the battlefield, each brawl used to feel unique because it would usually be with a different selection of tanks each time.

 

But recently I have noticed that the community has completely abandoned the niche and unique vehicles in place of the most commonly sighted vehicles.

 

 

I think this is in a large part caused by the matchmaker using templates and matching the same tanks on both teams.  Bring back the proper random matchmaker I say.

Warzey #9 Posted 05 July 2019 - 10:39 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 05 July 2019 - 09:34 AM, said:

 

I think this is in a large part caused by the matchmaker using templates and matching the same tanks on both teams.  Bring back the proper random matchmaker I say.

 

Just imagine the crapstorm that would ensue. 

Balc0ra #10 Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:09 AM

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That has always been an issue. Most "common" tanks are usually the current meta, new lines, when top tiers have a fair few Chinese HT's vs normally due to top of the tree etc. Or even now with the new premium on T6 that is a rather common sight for now. But even with the "perfect balance" some tanks would still be more common than others. And some will still be a rare sight. As some are not uncommon because they are underpowered. They are uncommon due to being more unforgiving or having a higher skill ceiling. Or because their role is not what most go for. Most want brawlers on their HT's. Not 2nd line HT's like the 50 100. As that's a rather uncommon tank for me to see atm vs the VK 100.01.

 

And some like tanks with a higher skill ceiling, and that's their reason to play. If everyone was the same. Why drive that one vs the other one at all?

 

And maps? Yeah it would not hurt to have a wider map rotation tbh. I don't see why we can't. Or... why have a rotation at all? Just have the MM pick one randomly from the entire pool vs 4-5 maps each hour.


Edited by Balc0ra, 05 July 2019 - 11:12 AM.


ThinGun #11 Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:19 AM

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Gotta be honest, I quite like seeing the same old tanks on the enemy team.  I don't have the ability to learn or remember all the characteristics of all the tanks, so seeing a smallish subset allows me to keep on top of it.  Of course, when there's a new giveaway (like the MK10) there's so many of them about, that learning how to deal with them doesn't take to long.

 

The ones that worry me are the rare and unusual.  



SaintMaddenus #12 Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:27 AM

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View PostBigtime_Alarm, on 05 July 2019 - 10:00 AM, said:

But you MUST play the tank that everyone says is the best. You MUST go to the same spot on the same map every time. You MUST employ the same tactics every match. If you don't you will have low WR and low WN8 and everyone will call you a noob!!!!!!!!

 

and/or shoot you for playing how they don't want you to play.

one of my favourite results  (replay not available)  was when in T9 battle in Paris I took my kv3 to behind the house in top left corner and peeked on lights got 1st spot for exp I wasn't bouncing my shots off those T9 heavies, I was penning the T9 lights who crapthemselves basically when I did high roles and they bounced off me.  I held that spot for most of the battle alone. (if they had known I was alone probably would have rushed me sooner.  The insults and "noob get to heavy corner" spammed clicks on my position were pointless.   Why go there when I know I'm going to bounce?  just for my dead tank to draw 2 or 3 shots from my team's top tier heavies? I don't think so.



StinkyStonky #13 Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:59 AM

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Pretty much everything the OP has said is incorrect.  It's just another pining/whining "the good ole days were better" moan.

 

View Postgav00, on 05 July 2019 - 06:01 AM, said:

I used to play this game mainly because of the massive variation in vehicles I would meet on the battlefield, each brawl used to feel unique because it would usually be with a different selection of tanks each time.

There are VASTLY more tanks than there were in the past.  A lot more nations, premiums, new lines ... especially at the higher tiers.  Wheelies are classic example.

 

But recently I have noticed that the community has completely abandoned the niche and unique vehicles in place of the most commonly sighted vehicles. Even with the relatively new tech tree lines, of which most tanks are rarely ever seen after the initial excitement, most people seem to be defaulting back to the same old stuff.

This only has any merit for Tier 8 Premiums.  People often have their favourite so you often see Defenders and Skorpian Gs, but Progettos have replaced Lorrain 40ts for example.  As for tech trees, the comment is nonsense.  Polish Heavies, Swedish Meds, Wheeled, the list of new tanks goes on and on.

 

What's more is that I feel players used to experiment and try new plays and locations on a given map, something which has completely disappeared now, with all of the heavies going the same route, the scouts all running in each other's track marks, and all of the TDs crammed into the same bush.

​Rather than "completely disappeared" it's now more prevalent than ever.  It's now common to see packs of heavies pushing the traditional medium line.  Wheelies have changed the dynamic meaning players often deploy to counter their early rush.

 

Not to mention the same 3 or 4 maps on repeat. Something which has been an issue for a much longer time. 

Complete nonsense.  There are over 40 different maps and yet I can't name one where I think "Oooo, haven't played that in a while" https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Maps

 

This has made the game exceptionally boring for me and is a reason I am playing a lot less nowadays.

You've been in the game for 6 years, that's why you're bored.  It's not the tanks or maps.  I also notice that nearly half your 10k games are in US and UK tanks, with very few in the 5 "new" nations introduced since the Japanese about 4 years ago.  You've also played half your battles in TDs and Arty ... no wonder you're bored.  I can also see that you've not earned a single Personal Mission Reward Tank or ever played a single Team Battle, Stronghold Skirmish, Advance, or Clan Wars battle.  No wonder you're bored.  You're avoiding 3/4 of the game.

 

This is not an observation of the lack of imagination by the player base, but more that WG has forced a very heavy and unrelenting meta with badly balanced tanks and unimaginative map design. All of which I feel is a death knell of the game.

Recently the meta has shifted slightly but it's still primarily a medium tank game.  The game still have a few years left in it yet but the main contributor to the "death knell" is players becoming bored because THEY are still playing exactly the same as they always have.

 

 



Jauhesammutin #14 Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:04 PM

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View PostCh1valry, on 05 July 2019 - 07:39 AM, said:

The best solution is to not spend money on the game. When cash flow stops, WG will react. If we keep throwing money at them, they'll think everything they do is fine and no changes will take place.

 

And as we keep throwing money at them then obviously the game is fine. If it wasn't then we wouldn't spend money, would we?

pecopad #15 Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:05 PM

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I think there are many variations of the tanks, the problem is that they do not work.

 

For example, I've been grinding some heavy tanks, and its just amazing the low level of bounces I do, so I wonder what is the point of even playing those slow tanks?

 

Playing TD's before, top of the tree line and it was just amazing the number of games with zero damage. Either you play the TD's like a medium or superheavy brawling tank, or most of the games you either will be swarmed with enemies and get one or two shots, or your team will just rout the enemies and you don't even get to shoot once.

 

We are in a game meta where a very few number of players get almost all the damage and kills done, if you land with the wrong tank in the wrong map,then you know you can do very little.

 

Maybe a x2 multiplier for credits on the first win would help the variety of the tanks, regarding the meta skew that favors very good players, I honestly do not know how to solve this...



Jauhesammutin #16 Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:10 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 05 July 2019 - 11:05 AM, said:

I think there are many variations of the tanks, the problem is that they do not work.

 

For example, I've been grinding some heavy tanks, and its just amazing the low level of bounces I do, so I wonder what is the point of even playing those slow tanks?

 

Playing TD's before, top of the tree line and it was just amazing the number of games with zero damage. Either you play the TD's like a medium or superheavy brawling tank, or most of the games you either will be swarmed with enemies and get one or two shots, or your team will just rout the enemies and you don't even get to shoot once.

 

This sounds like a player issue and not a "variety" issue.

Some TD's need to be in the front (E3) while some need to snipe at the back (Grille 15) and some TD's can be played as a medium (Skorpion G). If you want to perform well you need to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your tank and you need to understand the flow of the game.

 

What to do with a heavy which doesn't have any armor? How about you support your heavies which do have armor?



Cobra6 #17 Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:12 PM

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That happens when each tier has a select set of vehicles which is clearly better then the others, you'll only see those vehicles.

 

Same as what happens in CW/Skirmishes etc.

 

Cobra 6



pecopad #18 Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:16 PM

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View PostJauhesammutin, on 05 July 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

This sounds like a player issue and not a "variety" issue.

Some TD's need to be in the front (E3) while some need to snipe at the back (Grille 15) and some TD's can be played as a medium (Skorpion G). If you want to perform well you need to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your tank and you need to understand the flow of the game.

 

What to do with a heavy which doesn't have any armor? How about you support your heavies which do have armor?

 

I agree it is a player issue, I tend to be too much aggressive and hate red line sniping, which is required in some TD, like most of  the ones who don't have turrets,  the problem is that there is no time to do it. On the heavies I honestly don't get what the problem is,I know how to angle, sidescrappe, use the different armor layouts, avoid bad trades, etc but nothing works. Only when you are top tier its when they work has intended.

 

I am grinding the KV4 now... I think there is not a single tier 8 heavy tank that can't auto pen you. IS3A is the same, although you can kind of hull down, but side scrapping with its 170 shoulders against another heavy...

 

Also, my impression is that most of the games there is only a handful of players doing almost all the damage and kills,sometimes its you and it feels good, but most of the times its the best player with the right tank for the particular map... all the other tanks are just there to be HP piñatas, support and try to avoid having a bad game.


Edited by pecopad, 05 July 2019 - 12:24 PM.


SaintMaddenus #19 Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:19 PM

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View PostCh1valry, on 05 July 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

The best solution is to not spend money on the game. When cash flow stops, WG will react. If we keep throwing money at them, they'll think everything they do is fine and no changes will take place.

 

The actual result would be the game becoming unprofitable and being cut totally and utterly.  people wouldn't have to worry about their premium tanks being nerfed then.... (but that's a different thread)

Business is much more cutthroat these days.   customer service is an expense  why would WG invest in what to them would be a failing game.  They would shrug their shoulders and say next project..



facmanpob #20 Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:28 PM

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View Postgav00, on 05 July 2019 - 06:01 AM, said:

But recently I have noticed that the community has completely abandoned the niche and unique vehicles in place of the most commonly sighted vehicles. Even with the relatively new tech tree lines, of which most tanks are rarely ever seen after the initial excitement, most people seem to be defaulting back to the same old stuff.

 

Over the last few days there has been a set of missions called 'Put your experience to good use'. Mission #2 required us to do damage to 30 distinct types of vehicle over any number of battles. It took me 7 battles, most of which were in the T-34-85. There was plenty of variety in the tanks that I saw in those battles.






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