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I just got killed by a HE shell. I was in a KV-1. HOW!?

KV-1 HE ammo cannon

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Mecha_Muffin_Cat #1 Posted 06 July 2019 - 08:39 PM

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I don't understand. I just checked tanks.gg and there isn't anywhere on the front of the tank, nor the sides that can be penetrated by a HE shell and yet it killed me. unfortunately I didn't think to take a screenshot but when it happens again, I'll take one. 

 

can someone please tell me how this could have happened? I'm still quite new to the game and I was told that the KV-1 is a good starter tank, but I keep dying in it :/



I_Gutmensch_Deluxe_I #2 Posted 06 July 2019 - 08:42 PM

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Replay?

VonniVidiVici #3 Posted 06 July 2019 - 08:43 PM

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It would help if you told us which tank fired the HE shell. KV-2's 152mm can penetrate a remarkable number of tanks with HE shells for instance.

XxKuzkina_MatxX #4 Posted 06 July 2019 - 08:44 PM

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Which tank fired HE and killed you?

xx984 #5 Posted 06 July 2019 - 08:47 PM

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HE Doesn't need to penetrate to do damage. Depending on the calibre of the gun firing HE, could of easily hit one of the thin but well angled plates and splashed down for 200-400 

MeetriX #6 Posted 06 July 2019 - 08:52 PM

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Even a 10,5cm HE can pen a KV-1 if it has a higher ground, but it can't oneshot it.

152mm and some SPGs can one shot KV-1.



Mecha_Muffin_Cat #7 Posted 06 July 2019 - 09:10 PM

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View PostVonniVidiVici, on 06 July 2019 - 08:43 PM, said:

It would help if you told us which tank fired the HE shell. KV-2's 152mm can penetrate a remarkable number of tanks with HE shells for instance.

 

it was another kv-1.

Homer_J #8 Posted 06 July 2019 - 09:21 PM

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View PostMecha_Muffin_Cat, on 06 July 2019 - 09:10 PM, said:

 

it was another kv-1.

 

How much health did you have when it hit?

 

KV-1 122mm does 450 damage so unless it ammo racked you it couldn't kill you from full health anyway (even with a high roll penetration)

 

But if you had 1hp then it could do that through your frontal plate since HE does not have to penetrate at all to do damage.

 

Enable replays in the game options then when it happens again you can upload the replay to wotreplays.eu and we can give you an accurate answer.


Edited by Homer_J, 06 July 2019 - 09:23 PM.


VonniVidiVici #9 Posted 06 July 2019 - 09:22 PM

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View PostMecha_Muffin_Cat, on 06 July 2019 - 09:10 PM, said:

 

it was another kv-1.

 

The only place where that shell can frontally penetrate is on the sloped UFP, though that would take some luck to hit.

 

You didn't specify how many HP you had when this shell hit you by the way. KV-1's 122mm HE shells can't one-shot another KV-1 from full health even with a max damage roll, so you must have already taken prior damage. Depending on how many HP you had left it might not have been necessary to penetrate at all.



BravelyRanAway #10 Posted 06 July 2019 - 09:30 PM

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View PostMecha_Muffin_Cat, on 06 July 2019 - 08:10 PM, said:

 

it was another kv-1.

Or.....you were shot by more than one tank at the same time, but the KV-1 was the one that registered getting the hit.



Dorander #11 Posted 06 July 2019 - 09:41 PM

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Non-penetrating hits from HE shells deal damage according to a specific formula that you can find here: https://wiki.wargami...anics#HE_Shells

 

It's too complex to calculate on the fly during battles, but the important parts to note are: non-penetrating hits do half of the shell's alpha before other reductions are applied, the thickness of the armour is used as a flat damage reduction value (there is no second penetration check, it's just less damage the thicker it is), and the distance between the point of impact and the point where it deals damage matters, the larger the less damage.

 

If you were full HP when you were hit my the KV-1 it must've been an ammorack, this is rare but it happens. If you weren't full hp, it was just normal damage mechanics.



Balc0ra #12 Posted 06 July 2019 - 11:34 PM

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View PostMecha_Muffin_Cat, on 06 July 2019 - 09:10 PM, said:

 

it was another kv-1.

 

KV-1 122mm derp has 60 pen. Now there is also something called RNG. That can steer any value up or down by 25%. So that 450 alpha shell he fired, can do 563 damage at the most, or 336 damage at the least. And your tank has several spots that HE can deal some serious damage. Like your upper rear plate that has 50mm he can fully pen. And your front has several spots depending on impact angle that is 75 to 80mm effective. That even on a failed pen will take some damage. And your center plate is 50mm on the hull. If he was higher up aiming down. That's damage you don't want to take. 

 

HE from high-caliber derps will do damage regardless if they pen or not. A failed pen, as in if it hit more armor then it rolled pen for. Will still do at least half the potential damage. And will only go to zero if your armor is thick enough to nullify the damage. The best thing to do if you see they have a derp is to show your side when hugging the wall and hope your track will eat it. As then the splash might not affect your armor that much. Only HE you don't need to fear is from a 45mm tier 4 gun with 20 HE pen. Those will do zero damage. 122mm with 60 HE pen and almost a 3m splash. That will mess you up a little at least.

 

View PostMecha_Muffin_Cat, on 06 July 2019 - 08:39 PM, said:

I'm still quite new to the game and I was told that the KV-1 is a good starter tank, but I keep dying in it :/

 

KV-1 is a forgiving tank vs low caliber AP guns, and thus a great starter tank. But vs a high caliber HE gun. No tank is good at sucking that up at your tier. Not even the KV-1.



OofBerry #13 Posted 07 July 2019 - 01:24 AM

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You sure the other kv1 had he and not heat

CraftyVeteran #14 Posted 07 July 2019 - 02:50 AM

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(((REPLAY REPLAY REPLAY)))

Edited by CraftyVeteran, 07 July 2019 - 03:01 AM.


splash_time #15 Posted 07 July 2019 - 12:54 PM

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View PostMecha_Muffin_Cat, on 06 July 2019 - 08:39 PM, said:

I don't understand. I just checked tanks.gg and there isn't anywhere on the front of the tank, nor the sides that can be penetrated by a HE shell and yet it killed me. unfortunately I didn't think to take a screenshot but when it happens again, I'll take one. 

 

can someone please tell me how this could have happened? I'm still quite new to the game and I was told that the KV-1 is a good starter tank, but I keep dying in it :/

Maybe your tank health was low and you didn't notice it?



PayMore #16 Posted 07 July 2019 - 01:00 PM

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Did you notice if it was a twitch streamer or youtuber that hit you. Alot people belive WG have made special alogorithms for them.

Suurpolskija #17 Posted 07 July 2019 - 01:04 PM

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View PostPayMore, on 07 July 2019 - 02:00 PM, said:

Did you notice if it was a twitch streamer or youtuber that hit you. Alot people belive WG have made special alogorithms for them.

 

The amount of tinfoil in this post. :D 

 

Granted that for example SirFoch (as obviously many a good player) sometimes when given a chance will fire on modules he knows the location of, for example engines and ammo racks. 

 

Sadly, I have such knowledge only for some tanks. 



PayMore #18 Posted 07 July 2019 - 01:09 PM

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View PostSuurpolskija, on 07 July 2019 - 12:04 PM, said:

 

The amount of tinfoil in this post. :D 

 

Granted that for example SirFoch (as obviously many a good player) sometimes when given a chance will fire on modules he knows the location of, for example engines and ammo racks. 

 

Sadly, I have such knowledge only for some tanks. 

 

Look at vids and see how shots warp!

Gremlin182 #19 Posted 07 July 2019 - 01:21 PM

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Several ways this can happen and its all down to the Splash that HE shells have.

The turret roof is 40mm as is most of the top of the hull including the front plate and for the sake of including everything underneath the hull.

The 122 mm HE shell has 61 penetration based on the KV1s profile I am guessing he hit just under the gun and that went right through the thin armour there.

There is a mod that would let you see exactly where the shell did hit or you can watch a replay and see what likely happened.

 



Slyspy #20 Posted 07 July 2019 - 01:29 PM

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View PostGremlin182, on 07 July 2019 - 01:21 PM, said:

 

There is a mod that would let you see exactly where the shell did hit or you can watch a replay and see what likely happened.

 

 

Worth noting that the mod cannot show exactly where the tank was hit since only the server knows that. Just to avoid spreading any misconceptions. 






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