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M4A1 Rev. Buff

Buff M4A1 Rev

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Cygord #1 Posted 10 July 2019 - 10:51 PM

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Dear WG,
We need a 2nd buff to M4A1 Rev. for many reasons, nearly a useless tank for everyone.
Penetration need to buff up 200->212 Why? APCR loss pen. on distance so as a sniper u have 0 chance to pen lower plates and cupolas on heavies.
Reload speed buff 12,27->11,27 Why? This tank have 0 armor, so u can't play face to face, Not fast to get in position IN TIME. Slow reload speed. Low pen. These things make that tank just useless. This is 99% impossible to carry a game (even just a bit). 

 

Another way can be: Tier limit just on tier VIII. VI->VIII limit should be fine. 
T26E4 Sp. got buffed and its a way way better tank, and it's still tier limit, or just have a look on STG Guard 212 pen. low profile good turret armor. Slightly longer reload compare with  M4A1 Rev.

 

Cygord/Adam



VonniVidiVici #2 Posted 10 July 2019 - 11:15 PM

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Really? I thought people generally considered it a decent tank. I personally hate it but that's 100% due to the gun's "accuracy", not DPM or penetration.

If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #3 Posted 11 July 2019 - 12:20 AM

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No armour and no camo and slow at tier 8

 

best of luck with that one



Bulldog_Drummond #4 Posted 11 July 2019 - 12:25 AM

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Can't say I like it either.

I bought the Bretagne as a crew trainer for my Somua S35 as the Rev was too painful to play.



FataL_ShadowZ #5 Posted 11 July 2019 - 12:34 AM

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View PostCygord, on 10 July 2019 - 10:51 PM, said:

Dear WG,
We need a 2nd buff to M4A1 Rev. for many reasons, nearly a useless tank for everyone.
Penetration need to buff up 200->212 Why? APCR loss pen. on distance so as a sniper u have 0 chance to pen lower plates and cupolas on heavies.
Reload speed buff 12,27->11,27 Why? This tank have 0 armor, so u can't play face to face, Not fast to get in position IN TIME. Slow reload speed. Low pen. These things make that tank just useless. This is 99% impossible to carry a game (even just a bit). 

 

I still don't think that increase is anywhere near enough, I think it should have comparable pen to TD's which averages closer to 250mm across the board at tier 8. Its not as mobile as many of the TD's nor has the same camo and the tank is all about the gun so for me its pen needs around 50mm increase.



Bulldog_Drummond #6 Posted 11 July 2019 - 12:40 AM

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View PostFataL_ShadowZ, on 10 July 2019 - 11:34 PM, said:

I still don't think that increase is anywhere near enough, I think it should have comparable pen to TD's which averages closer to 250mm across the board at tier 8. Its not as mobile as many of the TD's nor has the same camo and the tank is all about the gun so for me its pen needs around 50mm increase.

 

I wouldn't hold your breath.  Ever since the game started people have been arguing that x should be buffed and y nerfed.

Sometimes it happens.

In a rarely seen French premium, unlikely.

 



7thSyndicate #7 Posted 11 July 2019 - 02:02 AM

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View PostCygord, on 10 July 2019 - 09:51 PM, said:

Another way can be: Tier limit just on tier VIII. VI->VIII limit should be fine. 

 

Lol, so you can bully the lower tiers... why not? what else? coffe perhaps... Rev is not a bad medium there are worse t8 premiums.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #8 Posted 11 July 2019 - 05:18 AM

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No idea what you're on about OP, Rev is a good tank. Great shot speed and hits really hard. Makes good credits.

gunslingerXXX #9 Posted 11 July 2019 - 05:26 AM

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CDC is in a much worse state.

SuNo_TeSLa #10 Posted 11 July 2019 - 06:20 AM

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Wouldn't mind higher pen, decent as it is though :)

falcon_96 #11 Posted 11 July 2019 - 07:47 AM

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I don't know dude, for me it is absolutely awesome tank as it is. So i don't think it needs a buff that big.
Also it might have APCR as standard ammo, but it only loses 8mm pen at 500m, from 200mm to 192mm, in contrast the Progetto has 212mm AP, but it bleeds 19mm at 500m going down from 212 to 193mm, and the Patriot from 230 to 210mm.

If i'm to agree with anything from your post it is the APCR could use buff to 212mm, but for different reasons, while the Rev's shell does not bleed as much pen as other APCRs it still gets less normalization angle than an AP, that is another hidden stat WG does not bother to explain, just like gun handling and terrain resistance. Normalization is basically the angle correction for a shell upon hit, a shell that hits angled armor would correct the impacted angle with certain value in order to bring it closer to a perfect 90 degree hit.  For AP that value is 5 degrees and for APCR only 2 degrees. Might seem small, but it is very important.
For example if we have a Tiger II with the first 105mm(the one with 200mm pen) shooting at IS-3s upper plate, say, just left of the track pieces in the middle it has to penetrate around 185mm of armor, since the normalization eliminates some of the angle before pen check, however if a 200mm APCR from the Rev hits the same spot, it has to pen around 200mm of armor because of the lower normalization. That means the tiger 200 pen shell gets 65% chance to pen, while the Rev is 50:50 and has to depend on high roll.
Another tank where WG used the same balancing method is the LT-432, on paper it has 176mm pen, looks good right, especially with that awesome shell velocity, well... no, vs a Tiger II lower plate it performs only slightly better than a 160mm AP shell of the T20.
I'm not saying WG is scaming people,since with APCR you trade that normalization for great shell velocity, but i just wish those soft stats(gun handling, normalization, terrain) were explained in game so we can make informed decisions before buying.

Solstad1069 #12 Posted 11 July 2019 - 08:02 AM

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Overall the M4A1 is a good tank with the new mm.
If anything needs buffing its the mobility and some better gen depr.

_bitter_end_ #13 Posted 11 July 2019 - 08:03 AM

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I would love all my premium tanks buffed, ofc... but seriously, considering how WG can make rebalances.... no, pls dont touch revalorise. I like it very much in its current state. Its one of the best t8 premiums. The alpha and the shell velocity rocks. If i must mention a t8 premium which seriously need brutal buffs is the amx cdc. That one is metalwaste, nothing more.

Edited by _bitter_end_, 11 July 2019 - 08:05 AM.


Simeon85 #14 Posted 11 July 2019 - 08:31 AM

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View PostSuNo_TeSLa, on 11 July 2019 - 03:20 PM, said:

Wouldn't mind higher pen, decent as it is though :)

 

Yeh I'd probably go for this, a little higher pen to deal with the general armour power creep wouldn't go a miss, maybe like 220-225 ish, especially as its APCR, so it gets worse normalisation than AP.

 

Aside from that its a solid tank. 



Yakito #15 Posted 11 July 2019 - 09:10 AM

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I don't play the tank because of the accuracy. If I could snap shot these juicy shots quicker then it would be my favourite thing. I feel you trade off too much on this tank for that damage. You trade accuracy, armour and a bit of mobility. It should have the accuracy of Lancen.

Simeon85 #16 Posted 11 July 2019 - 09:51 AM

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View PostYakito, on 11 July 2019 - 06:10 PM, said:

I don't play the tank because of the accuracy. If I could snap shot these juicy shots quicker then it would be my favourite thing. I feel you trade off too much on this tank for that damage. You trade accuracy, armour and a bit of mobility. It should have the accuracy of Lancen.

 

It's more accurate than a Lansen and has better gun handling in every way. 

 

Out of the 'big alpha' tier 8 meds, it has by far the best gun, best gun handling, best shell velocity, good accuracy, ok DPM, good gun depression, aside the pen its excellent. 



demon_tank #17 Posted 11 July 2019 - 10:11 AM

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View PostVonniVidiVici, on 10 July 2019 - 10:15 PM, said:

Really? I thought people generally considered it a decent tank. I personally hate it but that's 100% due to the gun's "accuracy", not DPM or penetration.

 

You must have found a wife or got yourself a very big educational (and probably well deserved) ars whopping  cause your toxicity levels seem to be very low compared to your old good self.

Edited by demon_tank, 11 July 2019 - 10:12 AM.


Yakito #18 Posted 11 July 2019 - 10:34 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 11 July 2019 - 08:51 AM, said:

 

It's more accurate than a Lansen and has better gun handling in every way. 

 

Out of the 'big alpha' tier 8 meds, it has by far the best gun, best gun handling, best shell velocity, good accuracy, ok DPM, good gun depression, aside the pen its excellent. 

I just checked on tanks GG. Darn it, you're right. Shows what I know. 

I swear the tank felt derpy. Maybe because of the pen and speed. 



TungstenHitman #19 Posted 11 July 2019 - 11:00 AM

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I really like the Rev but must admit it see's less and less battles. The reason for this is the 200 pen and powercreep. When I am having a credit building session such as yesterday for example, I need a premium that can reliably build credits to make the most of the free premium time and while running a 50% credit boost, sadly, this is not the Rev. It used to be an excellent credit builder and in the right circumstances it still is but that's the problem with it, it needs the right circumstances nowadays so that means its not a reliable credit maker. 

 

It's very much played as a ridge warrior and ranged sniper, it is very good at that and hits hard and hits fast with its rail gun. This is fine so long as you can pen. Vs soft and medium armored tanks, no probs, good times but against all these iron clad monsters and Russian stealth fighter shaped armor, it either bounces of the sharp angles or just straight up doesn't have the pen. Problem is it doesn't have a plan B. It cannot be anything else. It doesn't have the speed, it doesn't have the agility and it doesn't have the armor to be any other sort of tank. If you press the 2 key and use premium ammo, well, that sort of defeats the credit building purpose but whats more, it removes one of it's main attack features, that shell velocity and you drop from 1500 to under 1000 there abouts. If you're used to playing with one speed or the other it's a bit tricky at times to immediately make the adjustment and correctly lead. Against a close quarters target, no problem but still, you are burning credits and defeating the purpose, I have lots of way better T9 meds I can play if I want to just play a med for the reason just because, so for me, it's not a good situation to have to use a bad med compared to my other meds if not to make credits. 

 

So when it comes to making credits I use the TDs instead now mostly, the WZ, Skorp and SU 130 PM. They all hit as hard and harder, have about the same standard pen as the Rev has for premium pen, their premium pen is huge so during those rare moments you need it, generally you are getting bang for your buck unlike the Rev at times which still won't pen even with premium plus the TD's also have much better DPM. The only real advantage the Rev has over these TD's is it has a lot more HP but I don't want to be a pinata I want to deal damage and kill tanks, so... I don't care about this.  I'd would be of the opinion it needs maybe standard pen of about 220 which would make it a little more reliable against some lower plates of equal tier heavies like Defender and some higher tier lower plates. Would still not be amazing but I would be inclined to play it more. This would also make 40kph and no armor including no turret armor, acceptable. As it stands, pretty much entirely at the mercy of MM, soft targets "yay" tough targets on corridor "cry" and might as well go afk, in other words you just don't play it now which is sad. 



BlackBloodBandit #20 Posted 11 July 2019 - 12:52 PM

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View PostSolstad1069, on 11 July 2019 - 08:02 AM, said:

Overall the M4A1 is a good tank with the new mm.
If anything needs buffing its the mobility and some better gen depr.

It's a Sherman model, so it shouldn't be fast.

 

A lot of decent players have no problems with the tank, so I suggest the people who complain first look at their own way of playing. The tank shouldn't adjust to the player, but the other way around.

View PostFataL_ShadowZ, on 11 July 2019 - 12:34 AM, said:

I still don't think that increase is anywhere near enough, I think it should have comparable pen to TD's which averages closer to 250mm across the board at tier 8. Its not as mobile as many of the TD's nor has the same camo and the tank is all about the gun so for me its pen needs around 50mm increase.

View PostCygord, on 10 July 2019 - 10:51 PM, said:

Dear WG,
We need a 2nd buff to M4A1 Rev. for many reasons, nearly a useless tank for everyone.
Penetration need to buff up 200->212 Why? APCR loss pen. on distance so as a sniper u have 0 chance to pen lower plates and cupolas on heavies.
Reload speed buff 12,27->11,27 Why? This tank have 0 armor, so u can't play face to face, Not fast to get in position IN TIME. Slow reload speed. Low pen. These things make that tank just useless. This is 99% impossible to carry a game (even just a bit). 

 

Another way can be: Tier limit just on tier VIII. VI->VIII limit should be fine. 
T26E4 Sp. got buffed and its a way way better tank, and it's still tier limit, or just have a look on STG Guard 212 pen. low profile good turret armor. Slightly longer reload compare with  M4A1 Rev.

 

Cygord/Adam

We don't have any tier 8 tech tree mediums, so we can't say it shouldn't be better then it's tech tree counterpart. This tank is a support tank and NOT a tank destroyer, so that's why it should never get a td based penetration value. The best tier 8 medium in terms of pen (premium or not) has 232mm pen (Lorr 40T) which is already very high compared to most other tier 8 meds. Tech tree tanks get between 182-212 pen most of the times, except for tanks like the British mediums with 226mm.

 

SuperPershing and STG Guard are not comparable to M4A1 Revalorisé. They both have armor, SP has low damage per shot, profile are both very different. The tank has a long reload for a reason: high alpha. Just because a tank has downsides, doesn't mean it is a bad tank.

 

It has enough good things to go with, which are already 11 plus points for the tank:

  • High alpha
  • 105mm gun, while a lot of other tier 8 meds get 90mm or less
  • Good soft stats and accuracy
  • It can mount v-stabs (while enough other tier 8 meds can not)
  • It has decent view range of 390
  • VERY good shell velocity of 1460 m/s
  • 10 degrees of gun depression
  • Only 15% fire chance, so you can run food to increase all stats
  • low ammo cost and a good credit maker






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