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OBJ268 V4 - Is the frontal armor still a problem today?


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ValkyrionX #1 Posted 12 July 2019 - 09:31 AM

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in my opinion even at present this tank remains something problematic despite being revised and, "balanced".
I find it really pathetic that the lower plate has a poor strip so small and placed so low to penetrate when it is not possible to aim at the range finder on the roof of the vehicle or to other waespots.
I still find it absurd that what on a normal tank should be a weakspot, the lower front part, at different inclinations is comparable to about 400mm of armor.

Everyone complains about the obj279 armor, I find it more difficult to try to target a weakspot so small in fast actions that to penetrates the frontal armor of a 279 cause it totally loses its frontal armorl even with small depressions of the ground

 

am I exaggerating? pls guys , tell me if Im wrong 

 

really the wg should seriously review the role of the 268 v4 on the battlefileds , the "assault tankdestroyers" in this game are very stupids if declined in this way out of all logic

 

and ofc a greeting to the "balancing" department , which is about to give us yet another pearl of total rubbish and idiocy in the patch 1.6 ... bad and totally ridiculous light English tanks garbage branch

 

honestly you seem to me to be incompetents imo , and above all you are light years away from a game that you obviously don't play , now give me another warning for expressing my opinion in a sincere way

 

 

 



Kozzy #2 Posted 12 July 2019 - 09:50 AM

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Press '2' twice and aim at the UPPER front plate.

 

Thank me later.



BlackBloodBandit #3 Posted 12 July 2019 - 09:52 AM

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I don't get your question.. as they didn't change ANYthing about the armor lay-out. Glad I don't meet them very often.
08:58 Added after 6 minutes

View PostKozzy, on 12 July 2019 - 09:50 AM, said:

Press '2' twice and aim at the UPPER front plate.

Thank me later.

If I check it on tanks.gg and load premium (360pen) with a 268 v4 it says max 260 effective armor, but it's still an auto-bounce angle..


Edited by BlackBloodBandit, 12 July 2019 - 09:55 AM.


ValkyrionX #4 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:01 AM

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View PostKozzy, on 12 July 2019 - 09:50 AM, said:

Press '2' twice and aim at the UPPER front plate.

 

Thank me later.

 

the question is not to press the 2 key and aim at the upper front plate, the question is of a different kind.
I always face this tank well, I'm not complaining that I don't know how to do it or not because I can do it without problems both in randoms and clanwars etc.
I'll explain..

 

If we look at the previous tanks in the tech tree, like obj263, the tier 9 tank is configured with an extremely armored upper part and with a front weakspot big enough and easy to penetrate and with the right dimensions that absolutely go to balance the rest of the frontal armor.
The same cannot be said for the tier X which has an absolutely meaningless frontal general armor concept compared to the tier 9 with a minimal weakspots on the lower front , distorting in my opinion the very meaning of weakspots compared to vehicles before the X tier.

 

it is a totally wrong concept in my opinion to conceive , if I were a developer I would tend to give continuity to the weakspots of vehicles in technological trees, obviously taking into account the differences in the tiers 



PanzerVor87 #5 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:13 AM

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This tank is the ultimate noob machine imho, arguably worse than Type 5 now that the latter lost the big derp and pay2win ammo.

The frontal arc has no weakspots at all, and by "weakspots" I mean weak armor that can actively be exploited with standard ammo, not laughably overarmored crap like this thing's cupola and rangefinder, or the pixel-sized strip at the bottom of the front bumper.

This thing has no business being what it is. Either greatly nerf the mobility, because something like this has no business going so fast, or actually nerf the armor, or do a bit of both.

ValkyrionX #6 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:17 AM

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View PostPanzerVor87, on 12 July 2019 - 10:13 AM, said:

This tank is the ultimate noob machine imho, arguably worse than Type 5 now that the latter lost the big derp and pay2win ammo.

The frontal arc has no weakspots at all, and by "weakspots" I mean weak armor that can actively be exploited with standard ammo, not laughably overarmored crap like this thing's cupola and rangefinder, or the pixel-sized strip at the bottom of the front bumper.

This thing has no business being what it is. Either greatly nerf the mobility, because something like this has no business going so fast, or actually nerf the armor, or do a bit of both.

 

personally I did not understand the "nerf" of this tank, I personally would have acted differently , leaving the upper part intact leaving it extremely armored and decreasing only the resistance of the rangefinder and making the lower front plate a weakspot similar to that of obj263 to give a sense of continuity to the physical configuration of the armor in the branch  and a style of play similar to tier 8 and 9 vehicles , a su101 and an obj263 if played as a 268 v4 are made out in 20 seconds as they are definitely more balanced taking into account the level differences

the 268 v4 has no continuity with the previous tanks

 

 


Edited by ValkyrionX, 12 July 2019 - 10:22 AM.


Kozzy #7 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:22 AM

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View PostBlackBloodBandit, on 12 July 2019 - 08:52 AM, said:

I don't get your question.. as they didn't change ANYthing about the armor lay-out. Glad I don't meet them very often.
08:58 Added after 6 minutes

If I check it on tanks.gg and load premium (360pen) with a 268 v4 it says max 260 effective armor, but it's still an auto-bounce angle..

 

You are right:

 

...but I do find in game that very rarely is it an issue i.e. we won't be on the exact same elevation.  Drilling the upper plate is fairly reliable in most cases.

 

View PostValkyrionX, on 12 July 2019 - 09:01 AM, said:

 

the question is not to press the 2 key and aim at the upper front plate, the question is of a different kind.
I always face this tank well, I'm not complaining that I don't know how to do it or not because I can do it without problems both in randoms and clanwars etc.
I'll explain..

 

If we look at the previous tanks in the tech tree, like obj263, the tier 9 tank is configured with an extremely armored upper part and with a front weakspot big enough and easy to penetrate and with the right dimensions that absolutely go to balance the rest of the frontal armor.
The same cannot be said for the tier X which has an absolutely meaningless frontal general armor concept compared to the tier 9 with a minimal weakspots on the lower front , distorting in my opinion the very meaning of weakspots compared to vehicles before the X tier.

 

it is a totally wrong concept in my opinion to conceive , if I were a developer I would tend to give continuity to the weakspots of vehicles in technological trees, obviously taking into account the differences in the tiers 

 

Oh I agree it is yet another case of idiot-proof, over-armoured, nonsensical tank balancing from WG.  Tanks shouldn't be 100% immune to standard ammo.



DeadLecter #8 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:23 AM

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V4 is a very strong tank but it's not that OP anymore. It has horrible traverse speed, bad DPM and the alpha is lower than other assault TDs(650 vs 750). The armor has very tough lower plate but the upper plate relies on auto bounce angle, meaning if you are in a taller tank, say E100 and shooting down on it, then you can go through. Or if your tank fires HEAT then since HEAT bounces at 85 deg instead of 70 for AP and APCR, then you should be able to pen the upper plate if you're on the same level.

 

Just like IS-7, now V4 is mostly good for farming T8s and T9s and doesn't really stand out in TX battles anymore. Still I believe it is better than other assault TDs like Foch B and 155 that are pretty much auto pen for gold rounds, or E3 and Badger that are super slow. It's definitely one of the best TDs but TDs don't really have much to say in this game anymore.

HTs and MTs all have powerful guns and can take care of the most heavily armored vehicles and they don't have the drawbacks of TDs either. 

MTs are good for randoms or where there is strategy and a need for multi role fighting style. HTs are good for modes like Ranked battles where everyone goes to 1 flank to farm each other. TDs and LTs are only good for randoms and maybe some maps but in general they are obsolete to me. 

The one thing TDs have going for them is their penetration which makes them good for F2P players so they won't have to press the 2 key that often. 

 

So to answer your question, I say V4 is a strong tank and one of the best TX TDs in the game but in general it is not that OP to be a real problem against TX guns.



ValkyrionX #9 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:24 AM

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View PostKozzy, on 12 July 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

 

You are right:

 

...but I do find in game that very rarely is it an issue i.e. we won't be on the exact same elevation.  Drilling the upper plate is fairly reliable in most cases.

 

 

Oh I agree it is yet another case of idiot-proof, over-armoured, nonsensical tank balancing from WG.  Tanks shouldn't be 100% immune to standard ammo.

 

I see that you have grasped my concept


Kozzy #10 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:27 AM

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View PostValkyrionX, on 12 July 2019 - 09:24 AM, said:

 

I see that you have grasped my concept

 

Or we could say you are reiterating a point that has been made and agreed by many for quite some time ;)

Dava_117 #11 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:29 AM

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The tank itself is still problematic to pen. Luckily now is far less played in random. In any case, I tend to use HE shell aimed at the junction between the engine deck and the casemate, to maximize the damage. Alternatively you can facehug it and shoot down un the 100mm UFP. Normally it would be at autobounce angle but from so close and aiming down it became an easy pen for any AP shell!

Same goes for any tank aiming down on it from a ridge. I took on out with KV-4 AP once, shooting down on him from the mid ridge of Cliff map.

Or you can go for the rangefinder if he is stupid enough to not wriggle while reloading.



ValkyrionX #12 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:29 AM

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View PostDeadLecter, on 12 July 2019 - 10:23 AM, said:

V4 is a very strong tank but it's not that OP anymore. It has horrible traverse speed, bad DPM and the alpha is lower than other assault TDs(650 vs 750). The armor has very tough lower plate but the upper plate relies on auto bounce angle, meaning if you are in a taller tank, say E100 and shooting down on it, then you can go through. Or if your tank fires HEAT then since HEAT bounces at 85 deg instead of 70 for AP and APCR, then you should be able to pen the upper plate if you're on the same level.

 

Just like IS-7, now V4 is mostly good for farming T8s and T9s and doesn't really stand out in TX battles anymore. Still I believe it is better than other assault TDs like Foch B and 155 that are pretty much auto pen for gold rounds, or E3 and Badger that are super slow. It's definitely one of the best TDs but TDs don't really have much to say in this game anymore.

HTs and MTs all have powerful guns and can take care of the most heavily armored vehicles and they don't have the drawbacks of TDs either. 

MTs are good for randoms or where there is strategy and a need for multi role fighting style. HTs are good for modes like Ranked battles where everyone goes to 1 flank to farm each other. TDs and LTs are only good for randoms and maybe some maps but in general they are obsolete to me. 

The one thing TDs have going for them is their penetration which makes them good for F2P players so they won't have to press the 2 key that often. 

 

So to answer your question, I say V4 is a strong tank and one of the best TX TDs in the game but in general it is not that OP to be a real problem against TX guns.

 

I have not stated in any way that the 268 v4 is OP 

 

I'm just stating that it is a tank that does not have continuity with the vehicles before to the tier X and with an incorrect armor configuration compared to that of the previous vehicles in the tech tree 

 

in addition to this concept, I would like to mention that vehicles that do not have heat , but only apcr as special ammunition, may have some additional problems given the difference in the effective penetration angle between these two different ammunition

moreover, the few times it happens to play tier 8 in the random and to meet a tank with an armor configuration of this kind can be something absolutely problematic.

I dare not imagine how less experienced players behave in a similar situation and how annoying it can be

 

obviously we are only talking about situations where a frontal battle against this tank takes place


Edited by ValkyrionX, 12 July 2019 - 10:38 AM.


Homer_J #13 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:37 AM

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The armour on it's own would be fine if it didn't run around the battlefield like an F16

Simeon85 #14 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:39 AM

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Still OP and needs further nerfs -

 

Posted Image

 

The only thing the nerf did was create a myth about the tank and made it less played, people hear 'nerf' and they think tanks become worthless but its still far too all round good as a tank.

 

And yes a proper armour layout would be more sensible, like it having the lower plate as a proper weakspot. 



ValkyrionX #15 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:40 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 12 July 2019 - 10:37 AM, said:

The armour on it's own would be fine if it didn't run around the battlefield like an F16

 

no, the concept of armor is wrong as it has nothing to do with the tanks prior to the tier X

Homer_J #16 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:42 AM

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View PostValkyrionX, on 12 July 2019 - 10:40 AM, said:

 

no, the concept of armor is wrong as it has nothing to do with the tanks prior to the tier X

 

I don't have a problem with tanks having good frontal armour but that should come at a price when it comes to mobility.  You may have a different opinion but I don't think you should be able to penetrate everything from the front.

ValkyrionX #17 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:47 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 12 July 2019 - 10:42 AM, said:

 

I don't have a problem with tanks having good frontal armour but that should come at a price when it comes to mobility.  You may have a different opinion but I don't think you should be able to penetrate everything from the front.

 

if you give [wg] a logical continuity to a technological tree with weakspots more or less in common between the different tiers and similar general characteristics you cannot change everything at tier X

 

I really want to see if an obj263, a su101 or a su100m1 played as an obj268 v4 have the same survival opportunities :)


Edited by ValkyrionX, 12 July 2019 - 10:47 AM.


Homer_J #18 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:50 AM

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View PostValkyrionX, on 12 July 2019 - 10:47 AM, said:

 

if you give a logical continuity to a technological tree with weakspots more or less in common between the different tiers and similar general characteristics you cannot change everything at tier X

 

In your opinion.

 

View PostValkyrionX, on 12 July 2019 - 10:47 AM, said:

 

I really want to see if an obj263, a su101 or a su100m1 played as an obj268 v4 have the same survival opportunities :)

 

Can't comment on the 263 but the other two are pretty good at bouncing lower and same tier shells, just as 268 does.  But they are nowhere near as mobile, which is usually when they face problems.



Rati_Festa #19 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:50 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 12 July 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

Still OP and needs further nerfs -

 

Posted Image

 

The only thing the nerf did was create a myth about the tank and made it less played, people hear 'nerf' and they think tanks become worthless but its still far too all round good as a tank.

 

And yes a proper armour layout would be more sensible, like it having the lower plate as a proper weakspot. 

 

The V4 and the Maus got a new lease of life when the Type5 has neutered :) as well. Changing that one tank has made others far more viable again.



FataL_ShadowZ #20 Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:56 AM

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I don't have the Bobject yet however I have experiences with the others:

  • SU-100M1 - Bounces incoming shots so much that its often the go to tank for bounce missions
  • SU-101 - Bounces literally nothing and doesn't last long when played like the Bobject. Atrocious tank.
  • Obj263 - Unlocked it but haven't bought yet. Incredible frontal armour layout, night and day compared to SU-101. I was 1v1ing one of these in the village on Erlenburg in my T95 and could not penetrate this thing anywhere from front on (with the top gun too).

Edited by FataL_ShadowZ, 12 July 2019 - 10:57 AM.





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