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Need advice for Object 705


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Faramir22 #1 Posted 14 July 2019 - 01:35 AM

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Simply put, i cant deal damage in battles. Tank is quite good at being just wall but the cannon is literally warcrime aimed against its user. Battles where i have 400+- damage arent rare because of that. If i faced only tier 9 it would be probably good but honestly cant even remember time when i was top tier in this thing. Mostly if Tier X is present, its represented by bunch of heavies that are basically impenetrable for me. Sure i can spam HE for "great" effect, getting barely 800 damage, sometimes more sometimes less. Then i look at post-battle stats and i really want to just sell the tank when i see that other tanks often have like 3k+ damage.

 

Where i am doing mistake? Do i really have to spam gold/HE or what?



Benistown_GagsoisbisteDD #2 Posted 14 July 2019 - 02:00 AM

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Which gun are you using? i'd personally would use the 130mm one, since the soft stats are the same, only the dpm, premium pen and accuracy is worse, but having more dmg pays off.

There isnt really any secret sauce to the 705, just try find a corner to abuse. Otherwise the armor is pretty useless against tier 10 and 9 heavy tanks.

Dont be afraid of using gold, you'll be better off firing 1 gold shell and penning 1/1 than spamming ap and penning 1/4

Faramir22 #3 Posted 14 July 2019 - 02:32 AM

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Used both of them, now using the latter one (probably 130mm??) Honestly both are terrible ...

Yeah that tank is amazing at sidescraping but ... well thats it. I can sidescrape really well and hold some points quite easily. Until enemy realise that while i am big fat russian tank i am also toothless and i cant do a jackass to them in return. Not to mention that i can basically leave the battle the moment some HE spammer comes around like weaboo moving house with naval-grade cannon or some British "1600hp per shot using premium HE" crap.

Dorander #4 Posted 14 July 2019 - 02:54 AM

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Whenever you are "bottom tier" in a tier 9, that means there are 10 enemy tanks of equal tier and only 5 of top tier. That means there's virtually no deterrent to you being useful in a battle, two-thirds of the enemies are equal to you. Additionally there's five people of tier 10 whose job it is to match the actions of the enemy tier 10s, that's not by definition your job. As with every similar situation, stop pretending that it's your job to compensate for higher tier people, it isn't.

 

That said, tier 9s are far from useless against tier 10s. However it's entirely possible for you to be useless against anything. There is nothing wrong with your tank, tier for tier, you've got perfectly acceptable penetration and alpha stats, so that is not the problem. Your tank is far from useless against tier 10 either, especially if you load premium ammunition. You might have something against doing that, I don't really know, but it's important to realise that this is the job of premium ammunition; to deal with armour you cannot otherwise penetrate. If you think you can always face higher tiers without pressing that 2 key, think again.

 

However, playing a heavy, it's perfectly possible to end up in a situation where you can't penetrate the enemy, and they cannot penetrate you. This has nothing to do with tier design; this is related to gun and armour design. This is again the same problem for any heavy. If you can't penetrate the enemy in a reinforced position and you can't push the flank, you can't do anything. The game is effectively a staring contest and you have to out-patience your opponent, or risk a flanking charge. This is not a problem of your tank, other equal tier heavies face the same problem. You have to decide if you can survive the flank charge and break the line, or if you can't because you are outnumbered and are better off delaying the enemy numbers while your team wins the flank.

 

The 705 works just fine. It's a good all-rounder, it doesn't have any significant advantages or disadvantages compared to other heavies of its tier. If anything it's pretty straightforward to play. If you can't damage enemies, this is a matter of positioning at best, you not knowing what to aim for at worst. It's nothing to do with the tank's design.



Faramir22 #5 Posted 14 July 2019 - 04:26 AM

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What about you read what i posted instead of comming in and being all-knowing-demigod hmm? I am heavy (quite fat one atop of that) so i must go where heavy tanks go, guess what happens when there is Tier X which is almost always represented by heavy tanks? I meet Tier X Heavy Tank, what a suprise! *edited* Normal ammo is next to useless given what gun the tank is using and i am not going to load all-gold and do "press 2 to get skill" meme, thanks.

 

I never said that there is something wrong with the tank nor its design of which you are accusing me of. It might be good all-rounder and quite decent med basher but thats it. If i do job of heavy i end in staring contest and guess what? That crapis not profitable at all, not in credits and especially not in XP. And tank that is "progressing" by 500xp per long and boring battle is definitely anathema to fun gameplay.

 

Question i asked was rather simple, is there anything i can do to actually do some damage or i am just sitting in meme thicc tank that can only stare?

03:29 Added after 3 minutes

The lower tiers are present, yes. But not in my area of action. They are usually just bunch of meds and light brawling around in some other part of the map. If there is heavy on my tier or lower, they usually dont show up because apart from me, they usually cant sidescrap against Tier X. So i cant even shoot them.

 

I might sound pretty aggresive here, but trust me that i am getting fed up with my friends constantly having near orgasm when they are playing tier IX, telling me how xyz tank is good etc. Yeah thats *edited* nice that you guys enjoy your game, i am in the meantime sitting in thicc trashcan that while cant be penned cant pen back at all -_-


Edited by SilviettaG, 14 July 2019 - 03:28 PM.
Inappropriate language


RamRaid90 #6 Posted 14 July 2019 - 04:37 AM

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View PostDorander, on 14 July 2019 - 01:54 AM, said:

Whenever you are "bottom tier" in a tier 9, that means there are 10 enemy tanks of equal tier and only 5 of top tier. That means there's virtually no deterrent to you being useful in a battle, two-thirds of the enemies are equal to you. Additionally there's five people of tier 10 whose job it is to match the actions of the enemy tier 10s, that's not by definition your job. As with every similar situation, stop pretending that it's your job to compensate for higher tier people, it isn't.

 

That said, tier 9s are far from useless against tier 10s. However it's entirely possible for you to be useless against anything. There is nothing wrong with your tank, tier for tier, you've got perfectly acceptable penetration and alpha stats, so that is not the problem. Your tank is far from useless against tier 10 either, especially if you load premium ammunition. You might have something against doing that, I don't really know, but it's important to realise that this is the job of premium ammunition; to deal with armour you cannot otherwise penetrate. If you think you can always face higher tiers without pressing that 2 key, think again.

 

However, playing a heavy, it's perfectly possible to end up in a situation where you can't penetrate the enemy, and they cannot penetrate you. This has nothing to do with tier design; this is related to gun and armour design. This is again the same problem for any heavy. If you can't penetrate the enemy in a reinforced position and you can't push the flank, you can't do anything. The game is effectively a staring contest and you have to out-patience your opponent, or risk a flanking charge. This is not a problem of your tank, other equal tier heavies face the same problem. You have to decide if you can survive the flank charge and break the line, or if you can't because you are outnumbered and are better off delaying the enemy numbers while your team wins the flank.

 

The 705 works just fine. It's a good all-rounder, it doesn't have any significant advantages or disadvantages compared to other heavies of its tier. If anything it's pretty straightforward to play. If you can't damage enemies, this is a matter of positioning at best, you not knowing what to aim for at worst. It's nothing to do with the tank's design.

 

The problem is that often times IT IS your job, or you will lose the battle. You can't rely on your top tier guys to be able to deal with their top tier guys, you can only rely on yourself in this game.

 

That said, The 705 is very capable, and all round it's far  better than its tier  X counterpart. The gun is reasonably accurate for a small boomstick and it has very very good side armour. It can hold and control corridors well and it's also not slow when it comes to a push. As said, this sounds more like a player problem, as I had no issues with the tank at all.

 

Edit:

 

Justto add, you're not a very experienced player, so your friends telling you these tanks are good have probably spent more time learning the game and feel more comfortable at that tier. You're just not there yet, and that's ok. But don't try and force high tiers until you're ready.


Edited by RamRaid90, 14 July 2019 - 04:40 AM.


Negativvv #7 Posted 14 July 2019 - 05:04 AM

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Maybe slow @ss tanks are not OPs thing?

 

I liked Heavies when I first started but now I like them fast with accurate guns and or decent gun depression. Preferably 20hp a tonne power to weight or more.



RamRaid90 #8 Posted 14 July 2019 - 05:41 AM

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View PostNegativvv, on 14 July 2019 - 04:04 AM, said:

Maybe slow @ss tanks are not OPs thing?

 

I liked Heavies when I first started but now I like them fast with accurate guns and or decent gun depression. Preferably 20hp a tonne power to weight or more.

 

I think a lack of high tier gameplay is likely more to do with it.

 

OP is not that experienced at higher tiers and doesn't tend to perform as well.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #9 Posted 14 July 2019 - 06:46 AM

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View PostFaramir22, on 14 July 2019 - 04:26 AM, said:

What about you read what i posted instead of comming in and being all-knowing-demigod hmm? I am heavy (quite fat one atop of that) so i must go where heavy tanks go, guess what happens when there is Tier X which is almost always represented by heavy tanks? I meet Tier X Heavy Tank, what a suprise! So yeah i am pretty fucked in that regard. Normal ammo is next to useless given what gun the tank is using and i am not going to load all-gold and do "press 2 to get skill" meme, thanks.

 

No, this is a common mindset but it's just plain wrong. Too many people are stuck in the mentality that 'heavy tanks must go here'. If you know there is a Type coming down your flank and you still sit there in front of it and let it chew you up then you've only yourself to blame. You take your tank where you think it will be the most effective and that can often be to go with the meds and be the spearhead for the push that lets your meds do their thing. 

 

Use the top 122mm. The 130mm is worse in every way by comparison, the extra 50 damage is not even worth it. Standard rounds on the 122mm are fine, 248 pen is more than enough for most things, but if you need to fire gold then you fire gold. You'll lose more credits bouncing standard rounds all day or losing the game because you refuse to fire the appropriate ammo for the job than you will firing gold when required. 

 



4nt #10 Posted 14 July 2019 - 07:28 AM

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Should you carry on with 130, consider loading HE when facing those pesky hard targets? Even few solid hits from HE tend to make even types to reconsider herpderping against you,buying few seconds to consolidate position or retreating. Aim towards lower turret plate on even ground, or If possible the engine top.

XxKuzkina_MatxX #11 Posted 14 July 2019 - 07:28 AM

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Tanks with rear mounted turrets are situational and don't work well on every map so download some replays. Let's say 5 per spawn for each map and analyze what these guys are doing...

  • which gun works best?
  • how much gold are they carrying?
  • where to go on the map?
  • how are they positioning their tanks?
  • was the decision related to the enemy team's composition? (you need to watch that too)

 

You'll come up with a few working positions/techniques for playing this tank efficiently.



gunslingerXXX #12 Posted 14 July 2019 - 11:41 AM

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Do you shout "RASHAAA" each time you fire? I heard that helps a lot.

splash_time #13 Posted 14 July 2019 - 12:00 PM

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Usually when i have stock tank, i try to avoid tier 10s, or i use my tank advantage as possible as i can.

So, if you are in a match that belong to tier 10s, avoid joining front lines, and try to stay a bit farther, but stay in that area as "cover".

And can you tell us what gun are you using on it?


Edited by splash_time, 14 July 2019 - 12:03 PM.


Faramir22 #14 Posted 14 July 2019 - 12:08 PM

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Well considering that Object 705 is relatively noob friendly tank given its hard to get killed in it as long as you hump side of the building i would say i perform my role reasonably well as angle i hold is usually in hands of my team for most of the match and if enemy tanks try to push me and show their weakspots they actually do get punished cuz of the alpha. I am just sick of not being able to deal some constant damage (atleast my HP worth would be nice) because tanks that i meet in heavy spots are usually sidescrapping as well or are something like Conqueror where i cant really do much against. Sure i do carry HE and use it, but thats like scrapping the barrel when it comes to dmg done.

 

Honestly dont get me wrong but i cant really see myself going with meds. They usually go to places where i cant either sidescrap or i suffer because i am Russian tank with crazy bad depression, afterall i had to ban Westfield when i am playing Object 705 because heavy spot is just terrible for me as i cant even turn cannon at most people while keeping sidescrap up. Not to mention that i would probably get flanked by fast lights/mediums and torn to pieces considering that one usually cant rely on his teammates to cover him. Sometimes they do, mostly they dont :-/



splash_time #15 Posted 14 July 2019 - 12:08 PM

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If you are using the 130 calibre gun, the don't use it any longer, it has bad accuracy, bad penetration and long reload.

I  myself used the second gun. 



Faramir22 #16 Posted 14 July 2019 - 12:14 PM

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Using 130mm now but i had 122mm for long time, cant really see much of an difference really.

100% crew with first skill and almost second done, loader, heavy spall liner, toolbox.



AzoreanOutkast #17 Posted 14 July 2019 - 12:15 PM

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I used that one and liked it alot, when i played it i had no problem facing tier X tanks, i just avoided head ons if possible and the gun the 122mm is better choice.

 

As for the use, and i do this with the 705A (tier X) as well now, i try to avoid the "normal" corridors all HTs go, and instead suport my mediums or even try to push on the flanks with the suport of LTs, and that normally works really well since most players arent expecting to have to deal with a HT on those places, playing outside the box pays off, alot!

 

Its a good multipurposes tank, but excels at nothing!

Best use for it is as a suport tank, rather than a frontline brawler.

 

U should pick up experience before u go and use it, also having the proper equipment on it and a trained crew helps alot to get it to work, vertical stabilizer is a must, and not a bad bet to have rammer and also the thing to decrease aim time. As crew goes, all that improves gun handling and movement of the tank is a must.

 

In all after its set properly and if you use it wisely can be a very pleasant tank to drive around, i use my 705A from time to time and everytime i use it i miss been on the tier IX instead of it.



splash_time #18 Posted 14 July 2019 - 12:22 PM

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View PostFaramir22, on 14 July 2019 - 12:14 PM, said:

Using 130mm now but i had 122mm for long time, cant really see much of an difference really.

100% crew with first skill and almost second done, loader, heavy spall liner, toolbox.

 

If you want to deal high damage in a battle, then you have to know where are you going.

Map awareness is really important.

It's not enough to stick your tank to a corner or anywhere else, and expect that the enemies will come to your side and start shooting them, always try to get the best positions to block enemy tanks progress, and if they want to go forward, then, "Surprise I'm here".

Then you'll be able to deal damage.

And watch replays, they can help you a lot.


Edited by splash_time, 14 July 2019 - 12:27 PM.


Dorander #19 Posted 14 July 2019 - 01:22 PM

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View PostFaramir22, on 14 July 2019 - 03:26 AM, said:

What about you read what i posted instead of comming in and being all-knowing-demigod hmm? I am heavy (quite fat one atop of that) so i must go where heavy tanks go, guess what happens when there is Tier X which is almost always represented by heavy tanks? I meet Tier X Heavy Tank, what a suprise! So yeah i am pretty fucked in that regard. Normal ammo is next to useless given what gun the tank is using and i am not going to load all-gold and do "press 2 to get skill" meme, thanks.

 

I never said that there is something wrong with the tank nor its design of which you are accusing me of. It might be good all-rounder and quite decent med basher but thats it. If i do job of heavy i end in staring contest and guess what? That crapis not profitable at all, not in credits and especially not in XP. And tank that is "progressing" by 500xp per long and boring battle is definitely anathema to fun gameplay.

 

Question i asked was rather simple, is there anything i can do to actually do some damage or i am just sitting in meme thicc tank that can only stare?

03:29 Added after 3 minutes

The lower tiers are present, yes. But not in my area of action. They are usually just bunch of meds and light brawling around in some other part of the map. If there is heavy on my tier or lower, they usually dont show up because apart from me, they usually cant sidescrap against Tier X. So i cant even shoot them.

 

I might sound pretty aggresive here, but trust me that i am getting fed up with my friends constantly having near orgasm when they are playing tier IX, telling me how xyz tank is good etc. Yeah thats fookin nice that you guys enjoy your game, i am in the meantime sitting in thicc trashcan that while cant be penned cant pen back at all -_-

 

Oh I'm sorry, I was pretty drunk last night which apparently results in me writing like a demigod (which is hilarious) but I was under the mistaken impression you came here asking for advice. Must be because I read phrases like "Where i am doing mistake? Do i really have to spam gold/HE or what?" wrong and that's not actually wanting advice on gameplay situations and gold use. I also apparently got the phrase "the cannon is literally warcrime aimed against its user" completely wrong since you never said there's anything wrong with the tank.

 

Matchmaking sets the teams up so they are mirrored and deviates from this in only rare situations. It does not automatically make heavy tanks tier X and if you drive a tier IX heavy there's a virtual guarantee there's an enemy tier IX heavy on the enemy team. There's also plenty other tanks to shoot at if you don't blunder into the same spot again and again where you know you'll have problems.

 

And yeah, you do come off as pretty aggressive, I get the frustration of having bad games and feeling useless but don't come here and take it out on people who simply try to give you advice in regards to the question you posted and the comments you did make. It's not my fault, so keep your anger to yourself.



onderschepper #20 Posted 14 July 2019 - 02:20 PM

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View PostFaramir22, on 14 July 2019 - 01:35 AM, said:

Do i really have to spam gold/HE or what?

 

Yes, just like the Tier VII Heavies who face Tier IX Heavies with little chance of pen.

 

If you're feeling flush and in a rush then APCR is the way.

 

If you're feeling tight and slow is alright then HE.






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