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Yet another horrible example of WG thinking? Using loopholes..


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StinkyStonky #61 Posted 16 July 2019 - 04:16 PM

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View PostNaive, on 16 July 2019 - 02:50 PM, said:

If you don't care either way, why are you arguing a certain position then?.

Because it's interesting.

Go back to the bottom of page 1 where, in a repose to xx984, I said "it will be interesting to see (what WG do)".

Page 2 contains a reply by Snoregasm where he laid into me for being interested in whether whole clans would be punished.

He seemed to be (incorrectly) suggesting that I wanted whole clans to be punished and when I pointed out that wasn't my view, I was merely "interested".

That's where things went south.  Things like this wouldn't happen if solicitors could read what was written, but this particular one chose to contradict me with a ridiculous logical fallacy.

Basically suggesting that just because a clan might contain innocent players WG couldn't/wouldn't be able to punish the whole clan ... because of the rules.

 

On small scale sharing, does anyone really care ?  I certainly don't.  If someone plays for a friend or a sibling, so what.

Selling tanks for money is a different issue and I can understand (and have no issue with) WG turning a blind eye to the former and coming down hard on the latter.

 

If you play my account for an evening, because R/L means I can't make it, who really cares.

If you let me into your clan and help me win a tank because I paid you £50  ... I can see why WG might choose to punish your whole clan, not just you and me.

 

I think it has been interesting to see what has happened to PLYSM.

 

130+ ...  you're not in RANGR are you.  Those guys beat us by about 300 hit points to take our land.  It was a good (close) battle.



DaMP13R #62 Posted 16 July 2019 - 04:51 PM

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this has been quite entertaining :D anyone else got this open in a tab and just reading on 30 second countdowns.. StinkyStocky vs the planet :teethhappy:

Danger__UXB #63 Posted 16 July 2019 - 04:53 PM

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Altho i really do feel bad for the guys that just missed out on the tank (S) after putting all that personal effort and time in.. i would just like to say nice entertaining topic. so thanks for that.

 

A solid banana out of 10:popcorn:

 

 

 

 

 

 

....This broadcast has been interrupted..............Please carry on

 

 

 

 



_Crusad3r_ #64 Posted 16 July 2019 - 05:30 PM

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I see SS is still living up to his reputation :teethhappy:

Miss_Valkia #65 Posted 16 July 2019 - 06:43 PM

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View Post_Crusad3r_, on 16 July 2019 - 04:30 PM, said:

I see SS is still living up to his reputation :teethhappy:

 

He's got one outside the one he showed to me? Oh that's great. I wonder if he can run through his mind that 4 is less than 96? And for map control, after having it pointed out to him multiple times that the 96 squares will win. I'm not sure really want to say.

 

Having been in SJA before moving on, I need to say this, I would happily play with 90% of the players in there as they have an understanding of what the game is. And I will quote this from the night I got kicked from the discord by Stinky.

Stinky - "Why am I getting shot by a tank that I can't see"
Me - "What tank you in, and what is shooting you?"
Stinky - "I'm in a heavy, being shot by a scout"

Me - "Well, the light will out-spot you, and providing he plays his tank correctly, won't let you spot him."

 

I honestly struggle to understand how that needs to be explained. 


As for this: 

 

"Out of interest, what do you think is the minimum number of battles it would take you to earn 30k bonds ?  Asking for a friend."

 

Get an understanding of the game, join a good clan, with a solid team for clan wars, and play Tier 10s to farm bonds, and actually not that long, a couple thousand games maybe.

 

"Out of interest, what's the lowest Personal Rating for a tank winner that you know of ?  I found one with 4200ish.  20k battles, 48% WR (49% in the campaign), 850 WN8, been in his clan 6 months, finished in position 6000ish with 23k fame points after 90ish battles (all on the Basic front).  I don't for a minute think that this player bought their place."

 

Someone could have happily had a run of good games, or played the tank that why are good at. Wargaming personal rating with worth nothing. Is it just salt from the sea of salt that comes from Mr Stinky that he's upset that players who are statistically worse than him can have a set of good games, without having to jump straight to the conclusion that someone else was playing their account? Oh, but wait, I must be wrong, just like I was wrong about Frontlines engineering, that I must had been all wrong saying that it was the way to get general, then to have wargaming nerf it. Hmmmmmm. -ponders-

 

"Now you're getting it.  "or Something" could include anything they like, up to and including banning everyone in the clan.  We both know that's never going to happen, but not because of anything written or not written in the rules and not because it's "unfair"."

 

So you're calling for people who could have done better than you to have their entire clans banned? I'm not suggesting that there was no account sharing in that campaign, it wouldn't surprise me if there was, but calling full clans to be banned or be punished because of 1 or 2 people's behaviour is a bit extreme. That's like some turning around and lining up 50 people because one stole something and shooting them all. Get out of lala land and get a grip.

 

 

And now to watch the salt fest, like most people here, for it's nice to see that everyone else sees the salt. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1eHKf-dMwo



ivan8 #66 Posted 16 July 2019 - 07:08 PM

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I was just reading up this thread for some lulz since i saw it being circulated everywhere only to realize.....

View PostStinkyStonky, on 15 July 2019 - 10:36 AM, said:

 

Out of interest, what's the lowest Personal Rating for a tank winner that you know of ?  I found one with 4200ish.  20k battles, 48% WR (49% in the campaign), 850 WN8, been in his clan 6 months, finished in position 6000ish with 23k fame points after 90ish battles (all on the Basic front).  I don't for a minute think that this player bought their place.

He is 99.99% talking about me in this post.

Had the LOL of my life:trollface:



DiE9500 #67 Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:13 PM

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View Postivan8, on 16 July 2019 - 07:08 PM, said:

I was just reading up this thread for some lulz since i saw it being circulated everywhere only to realize.....

He is 99.99% talking about me in this post.

Had the LOL of my life:trollface:

 

Ivan man, your one and only trait of being bad at the game is making you famous kappa

eekeeboo #68 Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:44 PM

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View PostSnoregasm2, on 16 July 2019 - 06:33 PM, said:

 

 

Please refrain from being insulting and rude. 

 

EDIT: I can see I'm late to the personal attack party! Please everyone refrain from attacks and on-topic while i break out the invisi-broom! 


Edited by eekeeboo, 16 July 2019 - 10:46 PM.


Snoregasm2 #69 Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:55 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 16 July 2019 - 09:44 PM, said:

 

Please refrain from being insulting and rude. 

 

EDIT: I can see I'm late to the personal attack party! Please everyone refrain from attacks and on-topic while i break out the invisi-broom! 

 

Fair enough - my apologies.

 

At least you've deleted the worst of his ramblings . . .



eekeeboo #70 Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:56 PM

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View PostSnoregasm2, on 16 July 2019 - 09:55 PM, said:

 

Fair enough - my apologies.

 

At least you've deleted the worst of his ramblings . . .

 

I'm trying to work my way through the thread, trying to be fair about this and I understand this is a sensitive part, I'm only just joining this discussion so retroactively going to clean the topic, but about 1 more post being offensive from a boop of nope! 

 

OK - please keep on topic people and civil thank you! 


Edited by eekeeboo, 16 July 2019 - 11:03 PM.


Joc666 #71 Posted 17 July 2019 - 12:51 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 15 July 2019 - 10:36 AM, said:

Congrats to everyone who won a tank.  Commiserations to those who just missed out.

Out of interest, what do you think is the minimum number of battles it would take you to earn 30k bonds ?  Asking for a friend.

 

That's probably true, but for this campaign WG explicitly wrote it into the rules that selling spaces to win in game goods "will be punished".  It will be interesting to see if just the purchaser is punished or also other clan members.

 

 

 

Out of interest, what's the lowest Personal Rating for a tank winner that you know of ?  I found one with 4200ish.  20k battles, 48% WR (49% in the campaign), 850 WN8, been in his clan 6 months, finished in position 6000ish with 23k fame points after 90ish battles (all on the Basic front).  I don't for a minute think that this player bought their place.

 



Good sir, as I do realize you are talking about one of my members in the last paragraph I feel like I have to answer to that. First of all, what you are trying to say is... is that you deserve the tank more than he does... and yet his recent WN8 is much better than yours is - not great sure, but also not that bad. People tend to improve and PR is not a legit way of checking how good a player is, neither is overall WN8 or overall winrate. Next thing, you talk about the guy being in the clan for 6 months, don't you think that is a bit early to buy a spot in the clan? He even participated in the last campaign (where he did not get the reward tank as both the clan and him were worse at the tim. Also, if you asked the people who left our clan to join yours, they could tell you that the guy is legit and he played many advances with us and such, which is also a reason we gave him a chance - he participated in advances and therefore knows what focus fire is, knows the positions and is not afraid to push or shield teammates.

Also, you do realize that the skill of players is not the most important thing when trying to be successful in the campaign right? There are many other factors. Just an example, you guys have 2 people who easily received the tanks with us the last campaign while they were more than 10k points away with you guys. And im sure the guys only got better, not to mention that they received reward tanks with which they should be performing better than without them (at least that seems to be the rule). Have you thought that perhaps the FC is more of a factor there? Look, I bet I can play with clones of your players against your players with one team being FCed by me and the other one by you and I win 99/100 battles. You know, I have seen some of your battles, with H5VOC mostly, there were better players than in SJA iirc and all you do is camp. Are you really expecting to get reward tanks in that way? Sometimes you will have to attack too, not everyone is gonna push into you. I mean I guess i shouldn't be too hard on you since you did get a lot of "help" and "advices" from a certain clan that is always making promises about getting 50,60 reward tanks and they got like what, 5 in the last one? And 15 in this one? Great success i gotta say. The sad thing is people getting screwed over like that because they trust the stats of their FCs and experience, while there are more important things to take into account. As you said, we got a guy with 4k PR a tank and it was no issue at all, we just had enough x5 battles and points accumulate quickly.

Maybe another suggestion for your clan to perhaps do better next time (so I wont have to see yu complain on forums again) - don't let anyone FC. Just because someone says he is an FC or feels like he could be doesn't mean he will be, and it might be better if you jusst go back to good old camping of yours. I don't want to be rude but being a highly competitive clan that wants to receive reward tanks and such and also being "laid back", "no-stress", "everyone is allowed to join and play" kind of clan just doesn't work together.

Also, it seems like you have plenty of time to look at my players and how we did, and probably same with other clans, would it not be better that instead you try to focus on how your team played? What to improve? What strats can work and what you can make work? I think that will help you more than just trying to blame people and clans who are better than you with literally 0 evidence, just presuming something without even making a proper research? I mean, there must be a reason why most of your good players don't stay in the clan for long. If I was playing in your clan and saw the kind of posts you are making on the forums I would feel very ashamed to be in such clan. Why do you think pretty much noone likes your clan? Because you are bad? No. Because your players talk crapin randoms? No. Because of your commander? No. It is you, because all you do is blame and try to make others look bad while exaggerating your "successes" - that is not how you make a clan popular or good. I remember seeing somewhere that you said this was "your most successful campaign", your player with the most points has 5.7k (I know him for he used to play advances with us and he is a decent player who deserves to get a reward tank). That is "only" 15k points away from securing a tank. I would not call that a good campaign.

Now I know my post is a bit late, but I did have to take a break from WoT after the successful campaign as it was extremely stressful for me - managing 4 teams is not that simple. I also don't have time to spend on WoT forums where most messages are either complaining or trolling with very few useful threads/messages/discussions. A guy in my discord screenshoted me your post yesterday while I was drunk so couldn't answer you at that time either but I did get an urge to response to you so people won't actually think that we are "selling" spots (6 months before the campaign BTW). Maybe you should instead check some other clans who accept players who are waaaay below their requirements and join 2 weeks before the campaign and leave the clan soon after, but that is just a suggestion, maybe if you get enough people banned, you will be able to call this a good campaign with only 14800 points missing to get the tank for your top guy :child:

Edited by Joc666, 17 July 2019 - 01:04 PM.


Naive #72 Posted 17 July 2019 - 05:09 PM

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Em...

 

I don't for a minute think that this player bought their place.



DrunkSkills #73 Posted 17 July 2019 - 05:12 PM

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i  will give advice for these players who are complaining, "get better"

 



Joc666 #74 Posted 17 July 2019 - 06:54 PM

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View PostNaive, on 17 July 2019 - 05:09 PM, said:

Em...

 

I don't for a minute think that this player bought their place.

 

This is obviously sarcasm... why would he be pointing it out otherwise 

StinkyStonky #75 Posted 18 July 2019 - 12:03 PM

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I had intended to leave this thread for good, but I feel it's important to respond to Joc666's post.

 

View PostJoc666, on 17 July 2019 - 11:51 AM, said:

Good sir, ... what you are trying to say is... is that you deserve the tank more than he does... 

 

I must say that's it's very disappointing, that a response of 5 paragraphs, that has obviously been thought out, well written and required some non-trivial effort, contains such a glaring and obvious error in the second sentence.

Let's be clear.  It's plainly obvious to everyone that I don't deserve a reward tank from the Fire Trail campaign.  The clan I'm in didn't perform well enough.  That's indisputable and I don't know anyone who is claiming otherwise.  I certainly NEVER have.

Let's also be clear that I have NEVER complained about not getting a reward tanks.

I have also NEVER expressed any resentment about any player getting a tank by any means - even buying a place in a clan - I have repeatedly said, "I DON'T CARE". (see post at the top of this page)

 

This error of yours basically invalidates virtually everything you subsequently type.  Rather than pick your post apart, let me explain my actual motives.

 

One of the biggest problems on these forums is arrogance by high stat players (I call it out all the time).  It means that it's next to impossible for any middle or low stat player to vent frustration on the forums without some high stater shouting "Git Gud", "your not good enough", etc.

This thread is a good example.  The OP (a good player) was frustrated at just missing out.  Many of the early responses were ridicule and teasing. My response was "Congrats to everyone who won a tank.  Commiserations to those who just missed out."

 

The specific grievance of the OP was players who allegedly bought their way into high ranking clans.  There were many specific claims including (I'm paraphrasing not quoting) "only high stat players deserve/can win tanks", "only good clans can win tanks", "you can only win tanks if you fight on the Advanced Front".

I know that your clan (-RLD- for other readers who might think I'm talking to them) proves that many of these assertions aren't true.

 

So when it comes to my attitude towards -RLD- let me state a few things (that many readers of this wont know).  Some months ago a group from H5/SJA left SJA and joined -RLD-.  In the previous campaign all but 1 of them won a tank.  Since then 3 have returned to SJA, 2 have all but quit the game and 1 is still active in -RLD- and has just won a 2nd Reward tank (good for him).  It's obvious to me (from speaking to the 3 returned players and 1 who was offered a place in -RLD- but didn't take it) that NONE of these players bought slots in -RLD-. 

 

-RLD- is a very interesting clan.  It has lots of low stat players winning tanks but any cursory glance reveals that it is highly unlikely that any have bought slots (decent recent stats, long time in clan, etc.) and I have been told by players who I've known for over 3 years that that is not -RLD-'s secret (so I don't have to speculate, I've been specifically told by people I trust).

These event's are why I'm aware of -RLD-, not because I've been looking through results trying to find low stat winners (that would just be sad).

 

I really like the "No Naming and Shaming" forum rule.  Stat shaming is one of the most common forms of arrogance that I see on these forums and to have fun on these forums I have been using -RLD- as an example for quite a long time (this post is the first and will be the only time I mention -RLD- by name).  I've made a point of never naming your clan or any of your players but it's amazing how triggered the unicorns become when I tell them there are 5k PR players winning tanks and they aren't buying their places.

 

A few days before I came to this thread I was in a heated debate on another thread about whether clan wars reward tanks should be sold in the bond shop (personally I don't think they will be - it will be interesting to see).

I made the clam that it is easier to win a tank in an 11 day campaign than to grind 30k bonds (a guestimate of what might be needed to win a tank in the auction).  Clearly my statement is true for very high stat players in high performing clans (see post #6 in this thread).  It's probably not true for really crap players ... unless they have an angle (one angle being to buy a place in a top clan).

My claim enraged a lot of the unicorns.  It was fun.  What was particularly fun was to be able to use your clan to rub their noses in it.

 

One forum member (Naive, 3 posts up - I wasn't being sarcastic BTW), challenged me to reveal your clan.

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/712972-cw-tanks-available-for-bonds-soon/page__st__80__pid__17061296#entry17061296

He asked :-

Block Quote

 Ok can you please post these 5000 PR players that have gotten the tank? Its not naming and shaming since i'd genuinely like to know. Because if i know any 5k-6k PR players that have the tank, it was either a favor and they were allowed to join a clan way above their skill level, pay for it or play in a clan that does A LOT of CW/SH and has a decent FC (there are veeery few in that category)

My response :-

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/712972-cw-tanks-available-for-bonds-soon/page__st__80__pid__17061396#entry17061396

Block Quote

 Sorry, I think it would constitute naming and shaming.

The clan I'm talking about is the latter.  They have some excellent FCs and manage to make some really quite mediocre players pull off some spectacular results (they have good players too)

Perhaps "mediocre players" was a little harsh, "players with mediocre PRs" would certainly be fair.

Note that these posts were over a week ago, before this thread even existed and I can say they honestly reveal my attitude towards -RLD-.

 

So the final thing I want to say about my motives regards SJA and winning tanks.

I expressed this in a post last week.

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/712972-cw-tanks-available-for-bonds-soon/page__st__60__pid__17061197#entry17061197

Block Quote

 If these tanks were really important to me, it would be much, MUCH easier to get into a competitive clan and play 8ish battles a night for 2ish weeks.

 

I'm sticking with the much harder task ... trying to get my clan to win tanks rather than just transplant myself into a clan that can carry me.

 

 

So to close, congrats to you and your clan for your success in Fire Trail, I hope you enjoy the tanks you've all won.

64 tanks won by a 1200 ELO clan is pretty impressive.  It's more than CSA won !!

 



Snoregasm2 #76 Posted 18 July 2019 - 04:44 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 18 July 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

I have repeatedly said, "I DON'T CARE". (see post at the top of this page)

 

This error lie of yours basically invalidates virtually everything you subsequently type.  

You don't care, yet you type a wall of text.

 

As for the second line, a slight tweak and it can be fired right back at ya . . .



StinkyStonky #77 Posted 18 July 2019 - 05:07 PM

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Snore, your post isn't helpful.  It's just inflammatory for the sake of it.

 

I have repeatedly said, I don't care what WG do to punish account sharing or reward buying.

 

I am concerned about what Joc has said.  He did finally reveal "A guy in my discord screenshoted me your post yesterday while I was drunk" and that may explain the error in his second sentence.  I wouldn't categorise it as a lie.

I know that people thought I was lying when I claimed to know about a clan that was winning tanks for numerous low stat players.

To make it difficult for people to accuse me of lying I included links to posts I made before this thread was even started as evidence of my actual motives.

You obviously feel very comfortable calling me a liar, but I can assure others that you will not be able to cite a single example where I have lied.

 

I would suggest that eekeeboo now close this thread as your post has surely breached his boop of nope threshold.



Snoregasm2 #78 Posted 18 July 2019 - 06:14 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 18 July 2019 - 04:07 PM, said:

Snore, your post isn't helpful.  It's just inflammatory for the sake of it.

 

I have repeatedly said, I don't care what WG do to punish account sharing or reward buying.

 

I am concerned about what Joc has said.  He did finally reveal "A guy in my discord screenshoted me your post yesterday while I was drunk" and that may explain the error in his second sentence.  I wouldn't categorise it as a lie.

I know that people thought I was lying when I claimed to know about a clan that was winning tanks for numerous low stat players.

To make it difficult for people to accuse me of lying I included links to posts I made before this thread was even started as evidence of my actual motives.

You obviously feel very comfortable calling me a liar, but I can assure others that you will not be able to cite a single example where I have lied.

 

I would suggest that eekeeboo now close this thread as your post has surely breached his boop of nope threshold.

 

I don't think my post breached any forum rules.

 

I just thought it was in the public interest to point out the logical fallacy of your post. 



StinkyStonky #79 Posted 18 July 2019 - 08:37 PM

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Which logical fallacy would that be?  You know they all have names (many are Latin unfortunately).

 

Oh I see, you're just triggered at the ease with which I've been able to pull your posts to pieces.  And I taught you a new phrase so you're trying it out.  I get it.



Long_Range_Sniper #80 Posted 19 July 2019 - 06:50 AM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 18 July 2019 - 07:37 PM, said:

Which logical fallacy would that be? 

 

The following quote covers a few logical fallacies, but we'll go with....................

 

View PostStinkyStonky, on 12 July 2019 - 03:19 PM, said:

I'm sticking with the much harder task ... trying to get my clan to win tanks rather than just transplant myself into a clan that can carry me.

 

Argumentum ad misericoridiam






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