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WHAT SHELL AGAINST WHEEL OBJECTS


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reklakazala #1 Posted 15 July 2019 - 09:24 AM

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what type of shell is best against wheel vehicles

I play lot with kv122 

and my HE shell penetrate abot 60 mm

armor of wheel vehicle is about 20mm

Why my HE shell do 1/3 of normal damage?



NUKLEAR_SLUG #2 Posted 15 July 2019 - 09:24 AM

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Because it didn't penetrate.

Shacou #3 Posted 15 July 2019 - 09:37 AM

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It penetrates the wheel, but not the Hull. Wheel counts as spaced armor to some extent.

Dava_117 #4 Posted 15 July 2019 - 09:48 AM

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HE don't overmatch armour and don't have any normalization. Hitting at very high angle can result in a non penetration.

Also HE detonate after hitting anything. If they hit a spaced armour, as wheels in cars, they will detonate there and directly remove half of the potential damage.

Then the remaining damage will decrease with the distance untill it becomes zero or hit the primary armour.

 

HE is still the best choice to fight wheeled vehicles, because it can damage more wheels at once, slowing them down a lot more than AP.



Noo_Noo #5 Posted 15 July 2019 - 09:59 AM

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I prefer APCR to be honest. Higher shell velocity makes hitting them easier

reklakazala #6 Posted 15 July 2019 - 10:09 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 15 July 2019 - 09:24 AM, said:

Because it didn't penetrate.

 

why?

when I was in school 15 was smaller than 60?

09:10 Added after 1 minute

View PostNoo_Noo, on 15 July 2019 - 09:59 AM, said:

I prefer APCR to be honest. Higher shell velocity makes hitting them easier

 

i have notice than when i hit tank from my obj 257 , usually is over 400 damage

when I hit wheel its usually under 380 damage

09:15 Added after 6 minutes

View PostDava_117, on 15 July 2019 - 09:48 AM, said:

HE don't overmatch armour and don't have any normalization. Hitting at very high angle can result in a non penetration.

Also HE detonate after hitting anything. If they hit a spaced armour, as wheels in cars, they will detonate there and directly remove half of the potential damage.

Then the remaining damage will decrease with the distance untill it becomes zero or hit the primary armour.

 

HE is still the best choice to fight wheeled vehicles, because it can damage more wheels at once, slowing them down a lot more than AP.

 

eeee

nop

no

nein

niente

HE shell detonate directly on target, but when you use time fuse( it delay detonation little bit) than it can penetrate ( and that is that value we speak about)

when you have 20 mm of armor , there is no way to make 60 mm armor

also , they are box type , not sloped armor type

aaaand there is just 1 tiny little thing. in 120mm shell you have 3-4 kg of TNT

enough to crush some smaller bridge

and damage done by HE doesent depend on distance( that was subject of one of updates 2-3 years ago)

09:19 Added after 10 minutes

View PostShacou, on 15 July 2019 - 09:37 AM, said:

It penetrates the wheel, but not the Hull. Wheel counts as spaced armor to some extent.

 

so its true

Special police forces wear truck tire on their chest , not kevlar

whole idea of space armor is excellent

so you put 2 armor plated 10mm thick and space between them cca 20-30 cm and that is best known armor at world

what do you think  how much less steel tank will use?

you must report to all tank manufacturers , you will earn fortune



4nt #7 Posted 15 July 2019 - 10:37 AM

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Why do you do this again? WHAT IS REAL DOESN'T COUNT IN THIS GAME!

GAME, ffs.

You have been taught how the GAME Works multiple times and you still cling to same 'butbutbut IRL' arguments that have no bearing in the game. Get it? If GAME mechanics say that spaced armor cuts HE damage to half, your opinion is null. You want realism? There are other games, but I guess those won't satisfy your requirements. So, PMCs are your only hope. GL with that.

If you want to kill the wheelchairs you can shoot just about anything at them. Stop shooting the wheels. 50% of hull sides, 100% of front and rear hull as well as all turret are there to shoot. Just effin stop shooting those tires!

Balc0ra #8 Posted 15 July 2019 - 11:15 AM

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View Postreklakazala, on 15 July 2019 - 09:24 AM, said:

what type of shell is best against wheel vehicles

I play lot with kv122 

and my HE shell penetrate abot 60 mm

armor of wheel vehicle is about 20mm

Why my HE shell do 1/3 of normal damage?

 

Because I'm willing to bet you hit modules vs armor. Wheels cover half the side on some of them. And your HE detonating on those don't detonate inside the tank to do the full damage. That and some of them like the tier 6 that has no wheels across the middle to cover up their armor. But has a spare wheel on the side that works as spaced armor instead. Hit that directly and your HE damage roll will be half, if that.

 

And your 60 HE pen can get 45mm on a low roll. That won't be enough for even the mantle on the tier 7. Or the frontal hull on the tier 8 premium. And less so on some parts of his turret. As your shell caliber has no effect there vs if you used AP.

 

 



Wux777 #9 Posted 15 July 2019 - 11:15 AM

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I would go on HE, because for them, from arty perspective, is the most important to hit their wheels, not to damage them. When they are slow down, then they are easy to kill.

TungstenHitman #10 Posted 15 July 2019 - 11:55 AM

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Timing is your tactic really. I use the same tactic I use against any fast vehicle, when the game allows it that is and I don't get hit with laggy stuttery whatever these cars cause to break. Anyway, we are all creatures of habit and with light tanks/cars active scouting tends to follow a predictable pattern, each player has their own but you can learn their dance moves quickly enough, the weakness is mostly during their retreat, they are not looking behind them generally especially with a fast car but more importantly it follows a pattern and there are parts of the map they feel safest and they like to retreat to at different moments as they press and retreat, then they rinse and repeat. During these moments the are leaving, they zig and zig etc but there are always usually .5 second windows when they straighten up and don't turn. During those little moments, boom, you send a shell up their rear.

 

That's how you take them out reliably, they all do this. maybe not every time but sooner or later they will make this straight line moment and of course, if they make a mistake at any stage in between, your all over that too immediately. Other than that, again wait for moments when they take on a hill on your opposite flank, this slows them down to more reliably land shots on them if your gun is not amazing in terms of accuracy, soft stats and shell velocity. I've crunched many during their retreats, when the game allows it of course, and with pretty much any tank, shell, velocity it's the same trick really. They are at their most "missable" normally when they are coming forwards and that's not surprising really since they're looking at where they're going and have normally decided their looped run direction so they'll be dancing as well as they can make that car dance so ya, when they turn to run, that's when they're weak, just hold your shot for those opportune moments that they try climb a hill or straighten up between wiggles. I've derped many a car for 900->1000+ with a T49 so shell velocity isn't nearly as important as timing. They're still terrible for this game btw and the majority of the playerbase wouldn't feel bad about them gone, be much happier.

 

Just because I can counter them and just because they're hard to play or whatever, doesn't mean it's ok for them to be in the game, they really annoy me and many others. We want to play some tank v tank but their disruptive insta spot tactics from almost immediately into the battle just sells out team distribution and who is going where, this removes any real tactics and the element of surprise. Enemy movements intel has pretty much won wars since year dot, why do you think it would be any different in this game? One team knows where the other team has gone while the team without a car doesn't and has to wait longer so can only react to enemy tanks that have already distributed to counter them since they bloody know where you're going from the start. If the car player himself has a relatively low impact in terms of his personal dmg that doesn't matter it's his early intel and deep enemy territory intel is what's winning the battle as his team moves and presses and arty punishes all these feedbacks. You just can't get away with that trying to do the same with a conventional light tank.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #11 Posted 15 July 2019 - 11:57 AM

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View Post4nt, on 15 July 2019 - 10:37 AM, said:

If you want to kill the wheelchairs you can shoot just about anything at them. Stop shooting the wheels. 50% of hull sides, 100% of front and rear hull as well as all turret are there to shoot. Just effin stop shooting those tires!

 

Come on, be reasonable, that would require he learn to aim. You ask too much. 



Bonzo_dog #12 Posted 15 July 2019 - 12:04 PM

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use any shell you like , it does'nt matter its all RNG problem has existed long before wheelies arrived , shot batchat from 100 metres with E100 ap shell bounced off

 

reality is a myth in this game , just shoot em all hope for the best

 

have fun :)



reklakazala #13 Posted 15 July 2019 - 12:17 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 15 July 2019 - 11:15 AM, said:

 

Because I'm willing to bet you hit modules vs armor. Wheels cover half the side on some of them. And your HE detonating on those don't detonate inside the tank to do the full damage. That and some of them like the tier 6 that has no wheels across the middle to cover up their armor. But has a spare wheel on the side that works as spaced armor instead. Hit that directly and your HE damage roll will be half, if that.

 

And your 60 HE pen can get 45mm on a low roll. That won't be enough for even the mantle on the tier 7. Or the frontal hull on the tier 8 premium. And less so on some parts of his turret. As your shell caliber has no effect there vs if you used AP.

 

 

 

my dear Bishop, when wheel cars was intoduced in game , my kv 122 killed them easy

now, dont

with one HE shell few month before, boom 600 damage

now? not

 

11:18 Added after 0 minutes

View PostBonzo_dog, on 15 July 2019 - 12:04 PM, said:

use any shell you like , it does'nt matter its all RNG problem has existed long before wheelies arrived , shot batchat from 100 metres with E100 ap shell bounced off

 

reality is a myth in this game , just shoot em all hope for the best

 

have fun :)

 

i do, but its fun to get on nerves those wotalibans
11:23 Added after 5 minutes

View Post4nt, on 15 July 2019 - 10:37 AM, said:

Why do you do this again? WHAT IS REAL DOESN'T COUNT IN THIS GAME!

GAME, ffs.

You have been taught how the GAME Works multiple times and you still cling to same 'butbutbut IRL' arguments that have no bearing in the game. Get it? If GAME mechanics say that spaced armor cuts HE damage to half, your opinion is null. You want realism? There are other games, but I guess those won't satisfy your requirements. So, PMCs are your only hope. GL with that.

If you want to kill the wheelchairs you can shoot just about anything at them. Stop shooting the wheels. 50% of hull sides, 100% of front and rear hull as well as all turret are there to shoot. Just effin stop shooting those tires!

 

you know what is DOGMA

in religion, dogma is group of non questionable beliefs

they dont have anything with reality

Holly Pope in Rome is example( why he is Holly and why he cant make mistake )

 



Wux777 #14 Posted 15 July 2019 - 12:25 PM

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View Postreklakazala, on 15 July 2019 - 12:17 PM, said:

 

 

 

you know what is DOGMA

in religion, dogma is group of non questionable beliefs

they dont have anything with reality

Holly Pope in Rome is example( why he is Holly and why he cant make mistake )

 

 

Ako si mu rek'o. :D

 

Btw, you removed Balcan subforum and there is some things that can't be translated on english.


Edited by Wux777, 15 July 2019 - 12:27 PM.


AzoreanOutkast #15 Posted 15 July 2019 - 12:35 PM

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Despite APCR with higher shell velocity probrably makes u be able to score a hit on one, it also is expensive and those WV can absorve (eat) the shells well, so HE is still the best choice since as it detonates it causes splash damage, even if little it at least does something to them, and if enough ppl are splashing HE near them, them there is a good chance u can actually hurt them or get them killed.

 

WV break game, should be nerfed in speed and made so that the game pyshics do affect them too, or removed!



4nt #16 Posted 15 July 2019 - 12:39 PM

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View Postreklakazala, on 15 July 2019 - 12:17 PM, said:

 

my dear Bishop, when wheel cars was intoduced in game , my kv 122 killed them easy

now, dont

with one HE shell few month before, boom 600 damage

now? not

 

11:18 Added after 0 minutes

 

i do, but its fun to get on nerves those wotalibans
11:23 Added after 5 minutes

 

you know what is DOGMA

in religion, dogma is group of non questionable beliefs

they dont have anything with reality

Holly Pope in Rome is example( why he is Holly and why he cant make mistake )

 

So let me get this straight-

 

You have been playing a video game for Xk battles, and you press the Battle Button daily for yy times. You do not like how the games rules are. You complain about those rules almost weekly on forums. People try to explain you why and how the rules of this video game are.

 

Now comes the part which baffles I believe most of us. When people do not care about your feelings about how a video game works (do note, the very game you STILL play after z months after initial letdown), you dig your heels and start multi-month tirade across multitude of threads. All posts are repetition of same theme. No answer are even considered by you, but you insult and disparage those who not agree with you (here again, most posters). You simply do not wish your little reality to be shaken.

 

And then, when finally called into account for your pointless crusading, then you start using religious themes in your insults. Everyone not taking your piss is suddenly a dogmtist etc.

 

Hmm. 

 

Sounds pretty much like trying to reason with a fanatic.

 

TBF I'm going to take you as a troll from this point on. It is far more comfortable thought than a frothing sackcloth guy pressing his crucifix against his breast that you give away now.


Edited by 4nt, 15 July 2019 - 12:42 PM.


Dava_117 #17 Posted 15 July 2019 - 12:41 PM

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View Postreklakazala, on 15 July 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

eeee

nop

no

nein

niente

HE shell detonate directly on target, but when you use time fuse( it delay detonation little bit) than it can penetrate ( and that is that value we speak about)

when you have 20 mm of armor , there is no way to make 60 mm armor

also , they are box type , not sloped armor type

aaaand there is just 1 tiny little thing. in 120mm shell you have 3-4 kg of TNT

enough to crush some smaller bridge

and damage done by HE doesent depend on distance( that was subject of one of updates 2-3 years ago)

 

This game has just a simplified mechanics for HE.

In game, HE shell don't bounce, so you can get very steep angle if you hit the extreme side of the car round turret (as EBR 90 in example).

Also in game HE detonate at contact so, if you hit a wheel, you will pen it and then the detonation occurs on the other side of the wheel. 

And no, after the detonation the damage suffers a reduction up to the blast radius.

So is totally possible to hit the EBR frontal wheel quite far from the pike nose and get a very low damage count.



Nethraniel #18 Posted 15 July 2019 - 01:01 PM

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Quote

i do, but its fun to get on nerves those wotalibans

Quote

you know what is DOGMA

in religion, dogma is group of non questionable beliefs

they dont have anything with reality

 

Sums up the whole contents and intention of the thread...

Not, that reklakazala is rather known for exactly this kind of 'discussion'


 



kk40270 #19 Posted 15 July 2019 - 01:24 PM

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I played about 150 games with my t49 derb and try to find out how he works. Well if u hit them front or back, u will get easy 700 - 1000 damage, but if u hit side, its all rng. Lowest damage was 27hp and normally i made 200 - 300.

 

I think there is no matter what u shoot. Aim well or use autoloader. My t71 likes wheelies. 

 



4nt #20 Posted 15 July 2019 - 01:32 PM

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View Postkk40270, on 15 July 2019 - 01:24 PM, said:

I played about 150 games with my t49 derb and try to find out how he works. Well if u hit them front or back, u will get easy 700 - 1000 damage, but if u hit side, its all rng. Lowest damage was 27hp and normally i made 200 - 300.

 

I think there is no matter what u shoot. Aim well or use autoloader. My t71 likes wheelies. 

 

This so much. OP doesn't care and doesn't understand, but any others who for some reason come to this trainwreck might get something out of it.






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