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WG? EVEN BLOODY ACTIONMAN GOT A SCORPION BRITISH LIGHT TANK !


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Ragoutrabbit #61 Posted 16 July 2019 - 11:37 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 16 July 2019 - 11:09 PM, said:

 

The British line up to and including Tier 6 also has no shortage of remarkably effective tanks in it.

 

I never understood that "British tanks are rubbish" line either.

 

Most of the British trees are for the most part garbage with a few stand outs like the Cromwell.

 

The new lights are probably among the worst tanks in the game they're worse than tanks in other trees 1-2 tiers lower than them and they have zero purpose in the game as other tanks do the same job but far better.



Simeon85 #62 Posted 17 July 2019 - 10:37 AM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 17 July 2019 - 03:42 AM, said:

There are more tanks that came out just fine than came out OP. 

 

I am not sure this is something particularly to be proud of considering how obviously OP/bad many of the tanks were before release but still came out in that state.

 

Most of the informed playerbase said the 430U, Bobject, Maus buffs etc. were clearly too good before they were released, and they were right, and many of the playerbase said tanks like the tier 10 lights, FV4202, etc. would be bad on release on and they were right. 

 

This current situation with the tier 10 British lights IMO makes the balance team look incompetent.  I get the idea of starting low and working up, but to chose that terrible state they chose as a starting point is just embarrassing IMO.  Anyone with even a passing interest and knowledge in the game could see these tanks were terrible and are in need of massive buffs. 

 

And based on the current 2nd test 'buff' to the Manticore, we will need about 10 common tests before these tanks are competitive.

 

Putting out one of the worst tier 10s ever seen onto public test and then buffing it by tiny amounts is just insulting to the players who have given all their feedback on how bad it is. 



eekeeboo #63 Posted 17 July 2019 - 10:57 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 17 July 2019 - 09:37 AM, said:

 

I am not sure this is something particularly to be proud of considering how obviously OP/bad many of the tanks were before release but still came out in that state.

 

Most of the informed playerbase said the 430U, Bobject, Maus buffs etc. were clearly too good before they were released, and they were right, and many of the playerbase said tanks like the tier 10 lights, FV4202, etc. would be bad on release on and they were right. 

 

This current situation with the tier 10 British lights IMO makes the balance team look incompetent.  I get the idea of starting low and working up, but to chose that terrible state they chose as a starting point is just embarrassing IMO.  Anyone with even a passing interest and knowledge in the game could see these tanks were terrible and are in need of massive buffs. 

 

And based on the current 2nd test 'buff' to the Manticore, we will need about 10 common tests before these tanks are competitive.

 

Putting out one of the worst tier 10s ever seen onto public test and then buffing it by tiny amounts is just insulting to the players who have given all their feedback on how bad it is. 

 

It's something to note when there's 500+ vehicles and a person indicates a handful were stronger than others. 

4nt #64 Posted 17 July 2019 - 11:13 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 17 July 2019 - 10:37 AM, said:

 

I am not sure this is something particularly to be proud of considering how obviously OP/bad many of the tanks were before release but still came out in that state.

 

Most of the informed playerbase said the 430U, Bobject, Maus buffs etc. were clearly too good before they were released, and they were right, and many of the playerbase said tanks like the tier 10 lights, FV4202, etc. would be bad on release on and they were right. 

 

This current situation with the tier 10 British lights IMO makes the balance team look incompetent.  I get the idea of starting low and working up, but to chose that terrible state they chose as a starting point is just embarrassing IMO.  Anyone with even a passing interest and knowledge in the game could see these tanks were terrible and are in need of massive buffs. 

 

And based on the current 2nd test 'buff' to the Manticore, we will need about 10 common tests before these tanks are competitive.

 

Putting out one of the worst tier 10s ever seen onto public test and then buffing it by tiny amounts is just insulting to the players who have given all their feedback on how bad it is. 

I cannot remember now, what was the last time PT tanks were actually made balanced when something was clearly wrong in them?

 

It really wouldn't be this bad a reaction if only the br LTs would have been even on the level of poorest LTs, but they break the WGs former statement differentiating LTs and WVs. British LTs are like german LTs, but with dpm going below WVs and VR being equal! Both qualities were consistently marketed as being poorest in WVs. No wonder people are dissapointed and angry with confusion.

 

I'm far from confident that these key issues are addressed, even within 10 PT iterations. I'm guessing early november release, with minor tweaks on aimtime, mobility and ammo count.



bitslice #65 Posted 17 July 2019 - 01:40 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 15 July 2019 - 02:52 PM, said:

 

Can't take anyone seriously who thinks this is true.

 

Tortoise: arguably one of the best tier IXs.

 

Badger: Solid TD and one of the best constant damage dealers.

 

Caernarvon, Conq, Super Conq : Amongst the best tanks in their tier.

 

Cromwell: One of the greatest ever tanks in its tier, still one of the most popular.

 

Cent 7/1 and Cent AX: Not great, but certainly not bad tanks. Useable.

 

FV4005: One of the most feared tanks in the game.

 

 

This is not to say the lights are anything good, they're trash, but claims that british vehicles are bad in general are complete nonsense.

 

Thanks for proving my point for me

 

All those tanks you've just listed are Tier IX or X

EVERY tech tree has OK tanks at Tier IX or X

 

The British line has the Cromwell, and apart from a couple of niche play style tanks that I personally might like, the rest are just slow trash with multiple flaws

 

Look at the other Tech trees, they all have great tanks at low tiers, the British line is trash until you've grinded all the way up to Tier X

Screw that...

 

.



Tramp_In_Armour #66 Posted 17 July 2019 - 02:28 PM

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View Postbitslice, on 17 July 2019 - 01:40 PM, said:

 

Thanks for proving my point for me

 

All those tanks you've just listed are Tier IX or X

EVERY tech tree has OK tanks at Tier IX or X

 

The British line has the Cromwell, and apart from a couple of niche play style tanks that I personally might like, the rest are just slow trash with multiple flaws

 

Look at the other Tech trees, they all have great tanks at low tiers, the British line is trash until you've grinded all the way up to Tier X

Screw that...

 

.

 

Nope. In lower tiers, you have Covenanter (not great, but not terrible either, so not trash), Sherman III derp, which is the same as the M4 derp people like so much, Achilles, which isn't bad, Challenger, which is excellent, Comet, which is a great all-rounder. Can't comment on the arty as I haven't played it, but there are many worse low tier tanks than the Brits. And yes, Matilda is slow, but again, is nowhere near the worst for its tier. In fact, in a same tier game, it is to be feared if you don't have a Luchs handy. But there are too many low tier horrors in French and Polish tech tree to render the Brits as an awful line to grind.

bbmoose #67 Posted 17 July 2019 - 02:34 PM

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View Postmalachi6, on 15 July 2019 - 01:41 PM, said:

Assaults the intelligence of the people that created the games he plays.

 

Asserts a group of people agreeing on a point cannot be wrong.

 

Uses the argument of authority to promote his viewpoint.

 

States respect to all players.  While insulting the developers.  This is an oxymoron.

 

Give me a genuine reason to take you seriously?

 

*edited*

Edited by Daxeno, 17 July 2019 - 04:07 PM.
Naming and shaming.


bitslice #68 Posted 17 July 2019 - 04:03 PM

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View PostTramp_In_Armour, on 17 July 2019 - 01:28 PM, said:

 

Nope. In lower tiers, you have Covenanter (not great, but not terrible either, so not trash), Sherman III derp, which is the same as the M4 derp people like so much, Achilles, which isn't bad, Challenger, which is excellent, Comet, which is a great all-rounder. Can't comment on the arty as I haven't played it, but there are many worse low tier tanks than the Brits. And yes, Matilda is slow, but again, is nowhere near the worst for its tier. In fact, in a same tier game, it is to be feared if you don't have a Luchs handy. But there are too many low tier horrors in French and Polish tech tree to render the Brits as an awful line to grind.

 

Again, proving my point, go look at server winrate for those vehicles,

 

https://wotcharts.eu/ServerAvg

 

out of 604 tanks, this is how those British tanks rank...

 

Covenanter 521

Sherman III 258

Challenger  292

Comet       341

Matilda     201

 

and just to be fair, these are the ones I like:

Cromwell 160

Bishop    256

FV304    288

 

 

See? They are all statistically average/poor, and even the Luchs @ 156 outranks them all...

 

I can't recall the last time I even saw a Comet or a Challenger in a game.


Edited by bitslice, 17 July 2019 - 04:06 PM.


Tramp_In_Armour #69 Posted 17 July 2019 - 04:55 PM

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View Postbitslice, on 17 July 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

Again, proving my point, go look at server winrate for those vehicles,

 

https://wotcharts.eu/ServerAvg

 

out of 604 tanks, this is how those British tanks rank...

 

Covenanter 521

Sherman III 258

Challenger  292

Comet       341

Matilda     201

 

and just to be fair, these are the ones I like:

Cromwell 160

Bishop    256

FV304    288

 

 

See? They are all statistically average/poor, and even the Luchs @ 156 outranks them all...

 

I can't recall the last time I even saw a Comet or a Challenger in a game.

 

But statistically average is how most nations tanks are, Russians being probably the exception. I mean, if you rank tanks by nation, are Brits the lowest scoring at the bottom? I don't know how to read statistics, so I don't know, but it would be an interesting comparison.

RamRaid90 #70 Posted 17 July 2019 - 05:11 PM

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View Postbitslice, on 17 July 2019 - 12:40 PM, said:

 

Thanks for proving my point for me

 

All those tanks you've just listed are Tier IX or X

EVERY tech tree has OK tanks at Tier IX or X

 

The British line has the Cromwell, and apart from a couple of niche play style tanks that I personally might like, the rest are just slow trash with multiple flaws

 

Look at the other Tech trees, they all have great tanks at low tiers, the British line is trash until you've grinded all the way up to Tier X

Screw that...

 

.

 

You clearly are struggling to read what I wrote.

 

I didn't say OK tier Xs.

 

I said the British tier IXs and Xs are amongst the BEST.

 



XxKuzkina_MatxX #71 Posted 17 July 2019 - 05:13 PM

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View PostTramp_In_Armour, on 17 July 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

But statistically average is how most nations tanks are, Russians being probably the exception. I mean, if you rank tanks by nation, are Brits the lowest scoring at the bottom? I don't know how to read statistics, so I don't know, but it would be an interesting comparison.

 

There is no such thing, good and bad tanks exist across all nations, classes and tiers. Performance is measured according to the tank's win rate vs. the player's win rate. Look at the graph below and note at which point does the tank's curve cross the reference (linear) line. Also look at how much difference (delta) the tank's curve has above the reference line which indicates the advantage you get by playing the tank.

 

Cromwell B

 

This is just a brief explanation of the tank's curves and how to look at them. The whole discussion about british tanks being bad is absurd and i won't be taking part in that!


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 17 July 2019 - 06:26 PM.


Bulldog_Drummond #72 Posted 17 July 2019 - 07:22 PM

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View Postbitslice, on 17 July 2019 - 12:40 PM, said:

 

Thanks for proving my point for me

 

All those tanks you've just listed are Tier IX or X

EVERY tech tree has OK tanks at Tier IX or X

 

The British line has the Cromwell, and apart from a couple of niche play style tanks that I personally might like, the rest are just slow trash with multiple flaws

 

Look at the other Tech trees, they all have great tanks at low tiers, the British line is trash until you've grinded all the way up to Tier X

Screw that...

 

.

 

Well, that's your opinion.  Just sticking to Tiers 2 through 6, I have found all the below British tanks giving me decent results (52%+ w/r) and I have many of them as keepers.  

 

The British Heavy line at lower tiers is poor, and it could be that experience of that sways opinions.

 

  • AT8
  • Archer
  • Grant
  • Alecto
  • Excelsior
  • Matilda
  • AC4 Exp
  • Valentine
  • Sentinel
  • Matilda BP
  • Cruiser I
  • Cruiser III
  • Cruiser IV
  • Valentine AT
  • Bishop
  • Sherman III
  • Cromwell B
  • FV 304
  • Medium II
  • Lloyd GC


MrKane #73 Posted 06 August 2019 - 10:07 PM

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View PostKartoshkaya, on 15 July 2019 - 02:57 PM, said:

 

Except Messi and Ronaldo are great players. British tanks ? Hmmmmm....

 

Well, british tanks totally wasted Sovjet at the Golan hights.



arthurwellsley #74 Posted 06 August 2019 - 10:17 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 17 July 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

 

It's something to note when there's 500+ vehicles and a person indicates a handful were stronger than others. 

 

The problem is eek that the UK light tanks as produced by WG presently are extraordinarily poor. At first glance it would appear that the developers haven't really thought about their gameplay. They seem to want to develop an AMX Even 90 with a larger gun. However the UK light tier X actually looks a worse tank than the tier VIII Even 90.

 

In addition WG missed out the Scorpion, Scimitar etc. Why develop a light tank line for a country that built thousands of FV101 and not model that tank in the game? It rather smacks of incompetence. As I said elsewhere;

WG realistically should now

a. Admit their errors.

b. Ditch these ideas and write off the development time and cost.

c. go back to the drawing board.

d. start the line at tier I

e. Maybe glance at some of the player trees on the forums.

f. Send the development team to the Bovington tank museum.

g. Use the historic tanks that were built for probably eight of the ten tiers.

h. Aim to finish the line with the Vickers VFM 5.

i. Make absolutely 100% sure that the FV101 Scorpion with about 3,000 built is in the tree.

j. Put in the Scorpion with the 90mm

k. Put in the Scimitar.

 

examples;

Tier 1: Rolls Royce.

Tier 2: Vickers 6-ton

Tier 3: Vickers Light Tank Mk. VII Tetrarch

Tier 4: Vickers Light Tank Mk. VIII Harry Hopkins

Tier 5: FV101 Scorpion

Tier 6: FV107 Scimitar

Tier 7: Scorpion 90 (maybe) or FV301 or Prodigal see photograph below.

Tier 8: Vickers 24t (leads onto the Vickers MBT Mk. 1 at Tier 9 and Vickers MBT Mk. 4 at Tier 10)

Tier 9: (?)

Tier 10: Vickers VFM 5

 

OR

Tier 7: A46

Tier 8: FV301

Tier 9: Scorpion 90

Tier 10: Vickers VMF

 

Look at this thing;

It comes from Project Prodigal to build air portable light tanks. There were several versions built. This one has a fully rotating turret and a 17 pounder gun. Wouldn't that tank look fantastic in WoT? Why isn't it in the tech tree?

 

Most interesting of all the UK tested an innovative special 32 pounder gun for light tanks, and subsequently put it into an aircraft see;

http://forum.worldof...7#entry16125247

 

Such a gun would make a really interesting tier X tank.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #75 Posted 06 August 2019 - 10:29 PM

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Well if you got the time to write all that, why don't you go and watch how they actually play on the live server? :)

 






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