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2 days of Team Battles - Winrate higher than 55% and this is the absurd result


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ValkyrionX #1 Posted 16 July 2019 - 12:25 PM

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having learned that the WG, without any real reason , intends to remove the TBs in patch 1.6 I wanted to try to get back to 8k of PR because after some bad attempts I had dropped to around 7780
 
From yesterday I tried again to reach the 8k again and despite the WR above 55%in the last 54 games and a WR of 60% in the last 20 games the result is disastrous, from about 7780 I fell to -7500
 
Spoiler
 
Just to try, I wanted to ask for a reply via ticket and obviously I was sent back to the forum, as always.
 
I love this mode as it is the true essence of team play but something about PR must be done.
 
Thanks for the attention

Edited by ValkyrionX, 16 July 2019 - 12:27 PM.


ExclamationMark #2 Posted 16 July 2019 - 01:46 PM

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55% WR in TBs is very low. If you want to raise your PR by playing TBs, you need a high winrate, 70% at least.

Also, even losing one game can lower your PR dramatically. Last time I played TBs (with a WR of around 90%), losing one game could lower your PR by 50, and you'd need to play 5x that just to get back to what you lost...



ValkyrionX #3 Posted 16 July 2019 - 02:40 PM

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View PostExclamationMark, on 16 July 2019 - 01:46 PM, said:

55% WR in TBs is very low. If you want to raise your PR by playing TBs, you need a high winrate, 70% at least.

Also, even losing one game can lower your PR dramatically. Last time I played TBs (with a WR of around 90%), losing one game could lower your PR by 50, and you'd need to play 5x that just to get back to what you lost...

 

this makes no sense 

Spurtung #4 Posted 16 July 2019 - 02:50 PM

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View PostValkyrionX, on 16 July 2019 - 01:40 PM, said:

 

this makes no sense 

 

Yet, it happens.

 

It follows a bit the logic of "winning against a better team is meh but losing against a worse team is a no-no".



Bordhaw #5 Posted 16 July 2019 - 06:51 PM

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View PostValkyrionX, on 16 July 2019 - 01:40 PM, said:

 

this makes no sense 

 

Maybe that's why TB is being removed....

eekeeboo #6 Posted 16 July 2019 - 06:58 PM

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As answered in the announcement thread, because the game mode is used by too few people vs resources required to maintain and upkeep the game mode with plans coming to fruition for the rest of this year. 

ValkyrionX #7 Posted 17 July 2019 - 12:29 AM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 16 July 2019 - 06:58 PM, said:

As answered in the announcement thread, because the game mode is used by too few people vs resources required to maintain and upkeep the game mode with plans coming to fruition for the rest of this year. 

 

it doesn't matter to anyone if the Tb are not played in mass, if they are played, and are played every day, it makes no sense to remove them

 

Improving them was too difficult, wasn't it?

 

yet another missed opportunity

 

 

 


Edited by ValkyrionX, 17 July 2019 - 12:32 AM.


UrQuan #8 Posted 17 July 2019 - 01:00 AM

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You got to keep in mind that the PR gain/loss after a win/loss is relative to the PR rating of the teams, both yours as the opponent. A team of high PR folks fighting mostly lower PR folks won't get much points on wins & will drop plenty on a loss.

Dingers maintain around 50% WR in TB's & that is enough to be neutral to my PR rating. Do keep in mind that Dinger teams are a mix of every conceivable skill.

 

It's not a mode to farm PR rating contrary to popular belief. Sure, a good team can farm PR rating pretty well, but one loss against a meh team can cost you dearly in PR points & some teams that look mediocre through ratings are actually pretty good (better then XVM would tell you), because they run alot of TB's & can catch good players offguard due to it, as TB's have their own dynamic to work with (mainly thanks to the two base system)

 

As example, the Dingers have pounded some good teams into the ground, but we also got waltzed over by some red teams. In the end, it is a mode best played for fun (and XP/credits really) as it offers quick & fun battles, what's not to enjoy about that.


Edited by UrQuan, 17 July 2019 - 01:12 AM.


Spurtung #9 Posted 17 July 2019 - 01:36 AM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 16 July 2019 - 05:58 PM, said:

resources required to maintain and upkeep the game mode

 

Can they be that many? I mean, the mode could even be used as an "exclusive for tournaments" and it would still pay off.

 

What about grand battles?

 

 

I mean, what are WG's expectations, really? If there's 30k players online on weekdays, and considering most of those are playing randoms, what kind of numbers would make anything be considered a success?



Leepants #10 Posted 17 July 2019 - 01:56 AM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 16 July 2019 - 05:58 PM, said:

As answered in the announcement thread, because the game mode is used by too few people vs resources required to maintain and upkeep the game mode with plans coming to fruition for the rest of this year. 

 

eek - could you quantify that, please? So what's the ratio required to give the effort that means "too few people" considering WGs income, so actually resourcing this would impact WG how? I suspect WG won't drop into negative equity to employ some folk to make this work........

 

If it's for example,"only" 30k people, it's ok to "ignore" 30 THOUSAND people? What a gift to have and headlines to make - "WG sacrificed £XX to make 30k people happy". Or "because WG didn't want to (or not have ) £0.XX% profit, they (we??) decided to ignore 30K people". Yep, can't please everyone all the time, but....



eekeeboo #11 Posted 17 July 2019 - 05:45 PM

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View PostValkyrionX, on 16 July 2019 - 11:29 PM, said:

 

it doesn't matter to anyone if the Tb are not played in mass, if they are played, and are played every day, it makes no sense to remove them

 

Improving them was too difficult, wasn't it?

 

yet another missed opportunity

 

 

 

 

it does matter I'm sorry to say. Everything in the game costs money to maintain and if it's not used by a vast majority of your players it becomes cost inefficient and the resources are better used elsewhere. 

 

Improvements have been used and changes made. The game mode overall was not appealing enough or the rewards not high enough then that's not a good thing to need this for people to play the mode vs randoms. 

16:47 Added after 1 minute

View PostSpurtung, on 17 July 2019 - 12:36 AM, said:

 

Can they be that many? I mean, the mode could even be used as an "exclusive for tournaments" and it would still pay off.

 

What about grand battles?

 

 

I mean, what are WG's expectations, really? If there's 30k players online on weekdays, and considering most of those are playing randoms, what kind of numbers would make anything be considered a success?

 

grand battles are folded into the normal game mode. The resources for a separate mode when you consider the quality testing and making sure everything works and it's in every patch on the server and to be downloaded. These things quickly add up if a small part of your player base uses it when you could focus on other game modes that are more popular. 
16:48 Added after 3 minutes

View PostLeepants, on 17 July 2019 - 12:56 AM, said:

 

eek - could you quantify that, please? So what's the ratio required to give the effort that means "too few people" considering WGs income, so actually resourcing this would impact WG how? I suspect WG won't drop into negative equity to employ some folk to make this work........

 

If it's for example,"only" 30k people, it's ok to "ignore" 30 THOUSAND people? What a gift to have and headlines to make - "WG sacrificed £XX to make 30k people happy". Or "because WG didn't want to (or not have ) £0.XX% profit, they (we??) decided to ignore 30K people". Yep, can't please everyone all the time, but....

 

I can't give that info unfortunately but I don't use small and comparison to the historical battle lightly. And it was a really small portion of the playerbase 

Spurtung #12 Posted 17 July 2019 - 05:56 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 17 July 2019 - 04:45 PM, said:

Improvements have been used and changes made. The game mode overall was not appealing enough or the rewards not high enough then that's not a good thing to need this for people to play the mode vs randoms.  

 

I remember a certain ladder where teams could progress and earn rewards...

 

So, can I summarize your statement as a shot on someone else's foot followed by a dramatic "why can't you enjoy it?"



JocMeister #13 Posted 17 July 2019 - 06:19 PM

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Who the hell cares about PR? Its even more meaningless than wn8. 

LordMuffin #14 Posted 18 July 2019 - 12:42 AM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 17 July 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

 

it does matter I'm sorry to say. Everything in the game costs money to maintain and if it's not used by a vast majority of your players it becomes cost inefficient and the resources are better used elsewhere. 

 

Improvements have been used and changes made. The game mode overall was not appealing enough or the rewards not high enough then that's not a good thing to need this for people to play the mode vs randoms. 

16:47 Added after 1 minute

 

grand battles are folded into the normal game mode. The resources for a separate mode when you consider the quality testing and making sure everything works and it's in every patch on the server and to be downloaded. These things quickly add up if a small part of your player base uses it when you could focus on other game modes that are more popular. 
16:48 Added after 3 minutes

 

I can't give that info unfortunately but I don't use small and comparison to the historical battle lightly. And it was a really small portion of the playerbase 

Frontlines and Ranked battles would be even less cost efficient if you didn't bribe players with reward tanks to play them. 

 

TB is played by a portion of the playerbase and we/they do it depite not being bribed to do so.

 

How about trying to construct a mode that attracts players and that gets a stable playerbase without usage of bribing.

Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a mode that players enjoy outside of random battles, instead of having modes players only play for a reward and only see as a tiresome grind.


Edited by LordMuffin, 18 July 2019 - 12:45 AM.


ValkyrionX #15 Posted 18 July 2019 - 09:25 AM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 17 July 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

 

it does matter I'm sorry to say. Everything in the game costs money to maintain and if it's not used by a vast majority of your players it becomes cost inefficient and the resources are better used elsewhere. 

 

Improvements have been used and changes made. The game mode overall was not appealing enough or the rewards not high enough then that's not a good thing to need this for people to play the mode vs randoms. 

 

The Wargaming bill enough to allow a server to host the TBs, in 2018 WG have invoiced around +400,000,000 euros or am I wrong? We are waiting for the WG group earnings for 2018/2019 in the meantime.


Honestly the excuse of the economic cost makes water from all sides , so as to say that the TBs do not give prizes etc etera does not stand up because in the past it was possible to participate in tournaments and tier 8 ranked battles with awesome prizes in this specific game mode , WG have absolutely discouraged this mode by removing the tier 8 ranked battles , WG devs have not the slightest attempt to improve the mode trying to make it current and excellent as alternative to the other game modes leaving it to die on purpose.

 

You also have the courage to say that we have, in addition to the random ones, the ranked tier X [which sucks to all] and the Frontline mode, which no one is forced to play and which has nothing to do with TBs.

 

In TBs I have the opportunity to improve my PR , to play in teamspeak or discord with players from other clans and other nationalities and find new friends to play with , always discovering new things and knowing better players than me who can teach me something or to whom I can paradoxically teach something , having fun together and really playing as a team, which in other modes is not possible and where the team play is reduced to the platoons of just 3 players.


No one has specifically requested the removal of the TBs, as no one asked you many other things in the past that you've done , yet you go ahead like a train without asking our opinions and without giving alternatives of choice but we are as always in front of a rubber wall that takes unilateral choices without asking for feedback and without calling into question the players who every day have the care to read and write on this forum because they have the big defect of loving this game.

 

 

 

As I wrote earlier , yet another missed opportunity.

 

 

 

 

 



StinkyStonky #16 Posted 18 July 2019 - 01:00 PM

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View PostValkyrionX, on 16 July 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:

From yesterday I tried again to reach the 8k again and despite the WR above 55%in the last 54 games and a WR of 60% in the last 20 games the result is disastrous, from about 7780 I fell to -7500

 

Sorry I Lolled.

 

This is basically why I quit TBs.  Last time I played I lost 60 in 1 battles.  That's 1% drop from 1 loss.  A won a couple and so quit -40 for the session.  It took me 3ish months to get it back.

 

The really curious thing is there are players whose PR NEVER changed playing TBs.  Not even by 1 point.  Mine would go up or down 20-30 with each win/loss and theirs would stay static for the whole evening.

 

Tickets to Support just got "Working as intended".

 






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