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Are you guys having fun?

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Gkirmathal #21 Posted 16 July 2019 - 07:11 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 16 July 2019 - 05:11 PM, said:

 

The unfortunate truth is, without that frustration, many players are not inclined to pay and thus keep the lights on and the developers working.

 

That's a bold statement, for a red ribboned opinion ;)

 

So is this a universal truth in the whole free to play game publishing industry? Or is it just just a design philosophy of many, and in the end a choice how the product is designed and monetized by a publisher?

 

The statement of the need for frustration to monetize something, can actually also be reversed (less frustration > more inclination to pay in a product) and TBH it would make the same amount of sense from a philosophy, design, monetization and thus a business perspective.

 

Wouldn't you say?

Edited by Gkirmathal, 16 July 2019 - 07:17 PM.


Element6 #22 Posted 16 July 2019 - 07:16 PM

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Despite runnig with a very bad WR from returning after 3 months of not playing, I must admit it has been quite enjoyable last 3 days.

eekeeboo #23 Posted 16 July 2019 - 07:34 PM

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View PostGkirmathal, on 16 July 2019 - 06:11 PM, said:

 

That's a bold statement, for a red ribboned opinion ;)

 

So is this a universal truth in the whole free to play game publishing industry? Or is it just just a design philosophy of many, and in the end a choice how the product is designed and monetized by a publisher?

 

The statement of the need for frustration to monetize something, can actually also be reversed (less frustration > more inclination to pay in a product) and TBH it would make the same amount of sense from a philosophy, design, monetization and thus a business perspective.

 

Wouldn't you say?

 

This is a general universal truth for any free-to-play game. Encourage people to pay and play. Make the game enjoyable. But make sure you give a purpose for those paying, otherwise.... why would people pay? 

 

For instance you can earn the more credits with premium account, or play lots of battles at low and mid tiers. One situation is frustrating for some players, but good incentive to buy premium time. 

 

If you have no benefit from your premium content, less people are likely to purchase it in the long run. That's the balance to create from your sentence and why you can still play this game as a free to play player completely OK, but life becomes a little easier and you grind a little faster as a paying customer :) 



gav00 #24 Posted 16 July 2019 - 07:48 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 16 July 2019 - 06:56 PM, said:

 

No one rigs anything I'm sorry to inform you. 

 

The losing streams are usually due to commiting repeated errors due to frustration, it's just as possible to change your play style and mix things up and go on a winning streak. For every person on a losing streak, there must be a person on a winning streak, in the end all being balanced out through RNG and the element that you can't win every time all the time. 

 

So if this has stopped you from supporting the game financially, I'm sorry to say that this will not improve as the rigging is non-existant and you are seeing something that isn't there. 

 

Are you on the development team, or even have anything to do with the backend? If not, you have no idea whether your statement is true or false.

eekeeboo #25 Posted 16 July 2019 - 07:53 PM

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View Postgav00, on 16 July 2019 - 06:48 PM, said:

 

Are you on the development team, or even have anything to do with the backend? If not, you have no idea whether your statement is true or false.

 

yes I do. This has been checked, rechecked. Answered hundreds of times and even disproved by the community members like baldrick. 

 

 



ExclamationMark #26 Posted 16 July 2019 - 08:13 PM

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Next time you are not having fun, please, make sure to post to the forums again. Posts like these are incredibly rare.

iztok #27 Posted 16 July 2019 - 08:15 PM

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Hi!

> Are you guys having fun?

No, for more than a year. Constantly fighting tier-8 monstrosities did break fun for my preferred tier-6 tanks. Piling more and more stuff into game, dumbing-down gameplay, nerfing un-needed things, "fixing" things that didn't need fixing...

 

Haven't played a game for nearly a year.

 

BR,  Iztok



Luchs_Luthor #28 Posted 16 July 2019 - 08:16 PM

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The real problem is that spending money on the game doesn't address or fix any of the major causes of frustration in the game. No amount of money will fix the unbalanced tanks, tiers, teams and maps. If the developers were trying to cause players frustration they sure as hell succeeded and have perhaps done too well.

 

It might be a good idea for them focus less on causing players frustration and more on fixing all the problems with the game which seem to be causing more and more players to stop spending money.



eekeeboo #29 Posted 16 July 2019 - 08:18 PM

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View Postiztok, on 16 July 2019 - 07:15 PM, said:

Hi!

> Are you guys having fun?

No, for more than a year. Constantly fighting tier-8 monstrosities did break fun for my preferred tier-6 tanks. Piling more and more stuff into game, dumbing-down gameplay, nerfing un-needed things, "fixing" things that didn't need fixing...

 

Haven't played a game for nearly a year.

 

BR,  Iztok

 

if you're not playing the game... it is a fact you cannot have fun in it.... This is true! 
19:18 Added after 0 minutes

View PostLuchs_Luthor, on 16 July 2019 - 07:16 PM, said:

The real problem is that spending money on the game doesn't address or fix any of the major causes of frustration in the game. No amount of money will fix the unbalanced tanks, tiers, teams and maps. If the developers were trying to cause players frustration they sure as hell succeeded and have perhaps done too well.

 

It might be a good idea for them focus less on causing players frustration and more on fixing all the problems with the game which seem to be causing more and more players to stop spending money.

 

you will see this with mm fixes. Tank rebalance. Friendly fire removal and a whole host of other changes this yet alone :) 

Leroy_Jenkinss #30 Posted 16 July 2019 - 09:07 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 16 July 2019 - 07:34 PM, said:

 

This is a general universal truth for any free-to-play game. Encourage people to pay and play. Make the game enjoyable. But make sure you give a purpose for those paying, otherwise.... why would people pay? 

 

For instance you can earn the more credits with premium account, or play lots of battles at low and mid tiers. One situation is frustrating for some players, but good incentive to buy premium time. 

 

If you have no benefit from your premium content, less people are likely to purchase it in the long run. That's the balance to create from your sentence and why you can still play this game as a free to play player completely OK, but life becomes a little easier and you grind a little faster as a paying customer :) 

 

Yeah that's not true my boy. I'm sure i didn't spend a single cent of League of Legends in 8 years of playing that game and i love that game today same as the first day.But you give me great idea eek i will go from this forum right now log into my League account and go spend some money for skins beacuse that's how online free to play games should be monetized.

This game just throws everything through a window that i learned in my 20+ years of gaming.And that is no matter how much you skill have in WoT you can throw that all out of window when there is a RNG there is no consistency in this game.

 

I got penned 7 times in row by Achilles while i was driving my AT8 at max render distance dude was just spamming APCR from 600m and not  a single bounce while i was just angling my front plate more and more and more to see how much this BS called RNG can crapon someone.

Next game me in AT8 against enemy AT8 perfect time to test this RNG BS i bounced 6 times in a row on front plate of AT8 while having same gun and APCR as Achilles from less than 100m.

And in that moment i just ALT F4 game

 

Me the guy who was playing CS 1.6 professionally for 10 years, who pulled insane clutches back in the days, who won countless tournaments is just slap in the face on me and my intelligence to play this game.

 

I didn't touch this game 3 months and i plan to stay that way.



eekeeboo #31 Posted 16 July 2019 - 09:30 PM

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View PostLeroy_Jenkinss, on 16 July 2019 - 08:07 PM, said:

 

Yeah that's not true my boy. I'm sure i didn't spend a single cent of League of Legends in 8 years of playing that game and i love that game today same as the first day.But you give me great idea eek i will go from this forum right now log into my League account and go spend some money for skins beacuse that's how online free to play games should be monetized.

This game just throws everything through a window that i learned in my 20+ years of gaming.And that is no matter how much you skill have in WoT you can throw that all out of window when there is a RNG there is no consistency in this game.

 

I got penned 7 times in row by Achilles while i was driving my AT8 at max render distance dude was just spamming APCR from 600m and not  a single bounce while i was just angling my front plate more and more and more to see how much this BS called RNG can crapon someone.

Next game me in AT8 against enemy AT8 perfect time to test this RNG BS i bounced 6 times in a row on front plate of AT8 while having same gun and APCR as Achilles from less than 100m.

And in that moment i just ALT F4 game

 

Me the guy who was playing CS 1.6 professionally for 10 years, who pulled insane clutches back in the days, who won countless tournaments is just slap in the face on me and my intelligence to play this game.

 

I didn't touch this game 3 months and i plan to stay that way.

 

As you may well remember with LoL the old system was designed to frustrate you with the grind into buying the runes/rune pages and even levelling up. You will also remember those good old days when new champs came out and how much fun you generally had when you were on the free-to-play rotation without a selection of champions handy. LoL was able to build up a huge playerbase with all of this which enables to go into the model they have no which still has some questionable elements. 

 

The simple matter is, most free to play games that are only cosmetic dependent on sales do not generally last as long as Tanks has with as large and healthy a monetisation and player base. There is skill required to do well at the game, with or without RNG. RNG overall is pretty much required if you want to have an element of unpredictability about things. Love it or hate it, when it's a simple case of math "this shell will pen and do this damage" you quickly remove any element of excitement or challenge. That you need for a game to stay engaging in the long run. 

 

For the APCR, the angling of an AT8 is difficult when you consider the numerous weakspots on the tank, at range or not. You can take the time to learn those moments and overcome or remain frustrated. But I would be most interested to see your replay for your absolute worst luck possible for those 6 bounces when aimed properly and correctly at the tank or the weakspots. 

 

I am sure you were a good CS 1.6 player, but Tanks requires a different set of skills, play style and strategy than CS. You can retain map awareness to an element, but not many other things transfer than perhaps reaction rates which is trumped by tank knowledge, weakspot and the ability to relocate and work as a team. 



Gkirmathal #32 Posted 16 July 2019 - 09:35 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 16 July 2019 - 06:34 PM, said:

 

This is a general universal truth for any free-to-play game. Encourage people to pay and play. Make the game enjoyable. But make sure you give a purpose for those paying, otherwise.... why would people pay?

 

Good question, why would people pay?

In my view people become willing to do purchases, if a game offers them a good enough healthy balance between enjoyment, a.k. positive 'frustration' and negative frustration factors.

 

Though I do not think premium account, and the perk it offers on progression vs free, gives a complete enough picture.

 

Block Quote

 

For instance you can earn the more credits with premium account, or play lots of battles at low and mid tiers. One situation is frustrating for some players, but good incentive to buy premium time. 

 

If you have no benefit from your premium content, less people are likely to purchase it in the long run. That's the balance to create from your sentence and why you can still play this game as a free to play player completely OK, but life becomes a little easier and you grind a little faster as a paying customer :) 

 

Yeah I agree with the function of WoT prem account in your example and what it gives.

It can definitely increase part of the enjoyment players perceives in their progression through the game. I enjoyed the few free prem days given :) and I was inclined to perhaps get some prem time for an ongoing grind.

 

But due to some of those negative frustration factors I regretfully became reluctant again. A WoT premium account for me does not offset enough some of those negatives factors. That by design cannot be influenced (luckily!) by a player, but does induce frustration in players.

 

I think that for a lot of players that is a contributing factor why some takes frequent breaks or just leave (invested or not) all together.

sabre_ferret #33 Posted 16 July 2019 - 09:46 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 16 July 2019 - 06:56 PM, said:

 

No one rigs anything I'm sorry to inform you. 

 

The losing streams are usually due to commiting repeated errors due to frustration, it's just as possible to change your play style and mix things up and go on a winning streak. For every person on a losing streak, there must be a person on a winning streak, in the end all being balanced out through RNG and the element that you can't win every time all the time. 

 

So if this has stopped you from supporting the game financially, I'm sorry to say that this will not improve as the rigging is non-existant and you are seeing something that isn't there. 

 

Yeah, purple stats = repeated errors.  Do you even play the game?

Dorander #34 Posted 16 July 2019 - 09:47 PM

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View PostLeroy_Jenkinss, on 16 July 2019 - 08:07 PM, said:

 

Yeah that's not true my boy. I'm sure i didn't spend a single cent of League of Legends in 8 years of playing that game and i love that game today same as the first day.But you give me great idea eek i will go from this forum right now log into my League account and go spend some money for skins beacuse that's how online free to play games should be monetized.

This game just throws everything through a window that i learned in my 20+ years of gaming.And that is no matter how much you skill have in WoT you can throw that all out of window when there is a RNG there is no consistency in this game.

 

And how many other games do you know that have succesfully monetized their otherwise free to play product into a hundreds of millions or billions of euros/dollars company merely by selling cosmetic items?

 

See every time people make this argument, they refer to League. But I'm having a hard time finding other examples of games who tried this and didn't simply die off. Yet there are plenty examples of free to play games with itemization or other advantages in their payment schemes that survive and thrive. League didn't hit upon a winning financial strategy, it got exceedingly lucky.



Randomar #35 Posted 16 July 2019 - 09:57 PM

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If I was Wargaming I'd start to work on something that save the game!
The last time that had have a positive impact was when they have introduced the swedish faction.
Everything else after that was negative for the number of Players.

Homer_J #36 Posted 16 July 2019 - 09:58 PM

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View PostOldtanker68, on 16 July 2019 - 04:33 PM, said:

 

Ill take an extended break.

Ive had it.

 

 

 

 

 

Didn't you quit 18 times already?

 

I won't bother with battle count as I can sniff an alt account a mile away.  You will be merrily playing on your main while whining using this one.



24doom24 #37 Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:02 PM

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Yes, watching 5 tier 10 mediums lose a flank against a single tier 8 tvp is very fun while all the lights camp at base.:facepalm:

Leroy_Jenkinss #38 Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:21 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 16 July 2019 - 09:30 PM, said:

 

As you may well remember with LoL the old system was designed to frustrate you with the grind into buying the runes/rune pages and even levelling up. You will also remember those good old days when new champs came out and how much fun you generally had when you were on the free-to-play rotation without a selection of champions handy. LoL was able to build up a huge playerbase with all of this which enables to go into the model they have no which still has some questionable elements. 

 

The simple matter is, most free to play games that are only cosmetic dependent on sales do not generally last as long as Tanks has with as large and healthy a monetisation and player base. There is skill required to do well at the game, with or without RNG. RNG overall is pretty much required if you want to have an element of unpredictability about things. Love it or hate it, when it's a simple case of math "this shell will pen and do this damage" you quickly remove any element of excitement or challenge. That you need for a game to stay engaging in the long run. 

 

For the APCR, the angling of an AT8 is difficult when you consider the numerous weakspots on the tank, at range or not. You can take the time to learn those moments and overcome or remain frustrated. But I would be most interested to see your replay for your absolute worst luck possible for those 6 bounces when aimed properly and correctly at the tank or the weakspots. 

 

I am sure you were a good CS 1.6 player, but Tanks requires a different set of skills, play style and strategy than CS. You can retain map awareness to an element, but not many other things transfer than perhaps reaction rates which is trumped by tank knowledge, weakspot and the ability to relocate and work as a team. 

 

Come on dude back in the LoL when there was still IP system you could buy runes dirt cheap for IP you got really fast.Rune pages was expensive to buy for IP and RP and only advantage they give you was a tiny bit of flexibility when in champ select and i can bet you 95% of playerbase back then was having two rune pages like me and yet even with two rune pages you could still replace the runes anytime you want in your rune pages but not when you was already in the lobby for game.People complain about that and what Riot did, they removed Runes and now we have only mastery that is free and fully unlocked day one.

One thing that is also good with LoL is that you can buy any champ with real money anytime and yet Riot are constantly buffing and nerfing those champs without hesitation for game balance and WG cant do the same with premium tanks is beyond my mind but OK.

 

AT8 and weakspots dude do you play this  game AT8 have only one weak spot frontally on commander hatch that is still 152mm thick that you need to hit in the center to be able to pen rest of tank front is 203mm flat.Im somewhat ok with RNG if RNG is true RNG and not a tool to help those 45% to hit shoots on the move and pen things they aren't suposed to pen.

Im sure this game is rigged to pull everyone to that 50%

 

 I remember once a SU 152 pen my jumbo uper plate that was angled so hard that was an autobounce for every round in the game to bait a shot and win the game and yet somehow dude pen about 175 mm effective well angled armor with its 135mm of pen on its AP rounds and no he didn't overmatch anything he just flush hit my uper plate and left me on  like 12 hp and i just stop and look like WHAT how. Surprise Surprise dude was 42% player i wonder how he pen that hmmmmmm.

Only thing i'm sure about that i never ever raged in any game before i installed WoT on my comp or break any hardware.

Now i can say i break 3 keyboards playing WoT.

 

 



psychobear #39 Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:40 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 16 July 2019 - 09:18 PM, said:

 

you will see this with mm fixes. Tank rebalance. Friendly fire removal and a whole host of other changes this yet alone :) 

 

MM fixes? Thought you guys have fixed the MM. Are you working on it again? Should we expect a well balanced MM in say a couple of years time? Or more?

Tank rebalance? If i remember correctly, you started a big rebalance process when Sandbox was first launched, some years ago. Started with tier 10 and said once that was fixed, you'd move down the tiers and balance everything. In fact, all you've managed to achieve was f*ck up tier 10 balance even more, making the tier virtually unplayable. Then you've stopped and completely forgot about the whole balancing thing. Should we expect the same this time? I definitely think so.

Friendly fire removal? That's not needed and won't fix any of the core problems of the game. But hey, "fixing" unnecesary things while completely ignoring the real problems is one of the core traits of your company, so that's that.

A whole host of other changes this yet alone? Lots of words for saying nothing, don't you think?

 

And by the way, when are you going to address the artillery problem?!!! 

 

Sorry for the maybe harsh tone, but you guys should really consider one thing: our patience has limits too, and it seems that more and more of us are just about reaching them, which directly reflects into dropping of player numbers as well as dropping of paying players numbers. If nothing else, that should at least be of concern to you. But it looks like it isn't. Oh well.


Edited by psychobear, 16 July 2019 - 11:02 PM.


TungstenHitman #40 Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:46 PM

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Not too much lately I don't know is it school kids or what but the standard is really bad and teammates are the biggest problem for me at the moment they either follow me or grief. Not only clueless but a sh*tty "this is my spot!" boom! sort of attitude to go with along with pushers and blockers just really a lot lately no wonder they are bringing in a no team damage soon since they must be inundated with tickets and player numbers dropping from bans and I eventually get tilted myself obviously there's only so many battles of that sort of snotty childish clueless guff you can take before you have enough and stop playing for the evening. I hope things settle down again soon.

Edited by TungstenHitman, 16 July 2019 - 10:47 PM.





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