Jump to content


Tank class balance


  • Please log in to reply
7 replies to this topic

PowJay #1 Posted 17 July 2019 - 11:53 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 39304 battles
  • 5,234
  • Member since:
    09-07-2012

Please do not assume that this is another MM rant, although it is MM-related.


I cannot understand why we don't have greater balance between tank classes in battle. I know that things like ToTT and other events can push a certain vehicle or class to be very popular, but what about normal MM?

 

We all know that many players would like the limit on SPGs to be changed, and surely it can be. I already receive the warning that SPGs can wait longer to get into battle and then poof! As if by magic, half a second later I am in a battle with three SPGs. On Mines, or Ensk, or Paris. Then I play another class of vehicle and it's Malinovka, Prokhorovka and Sand River with NO SPGs at all.


Fine, you say. I would rather battles like that, but they are not really. If WG cut the SPG limit to two- except in extreme circumstances, we would have SPGs in most battles, but never three. Just accept that you can't have it all ways.

 

But my thread concerns LTs today. Again, why are we getting city battles with five LTs and then open-map battles with none, or one? The other day on Ruinberg, there were five LTs and WVs, while a battle on Malinovka had exactly zero LTs on each side.


The problems are multiple and have cons for both sides. An overdose of LTs/WVs makes it very difficult for anyone doing a spotting mission, and when they are co-ordinated, it can mean instant death for anyone spotted or found alone. A derth of LTs/WVs means that you only need one YOLO idiot or camper and your TDs are blind and dead. Just now on Pilsen our LT took to the extreme edge of the map beyond the rail line and was the first to die. The opposition LT did the same. In the end, a TS-5 scouted the middle for the enemy and was quite effective- right up until the point where I killed him!

 

Camping LTs, Brawling LTs, YOLO LTs: you only need one or two of these on your team and TDs and SPGs may be blind. Then you get five in the next battle- in Himmelsdorf and what do they (specifically) have to do- especially if they are trying to complete a Light Tank spotting mission.


We've all seen those HT and TD parties as well. Surely the fact that many battles have 3 SPGs and 5 LTs and others have neither is a degree of proof that MM could be tweaked to try and address this problem.



WhoCares01 #2 Posted 17 July 2019 - 12:27 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 19531 battles
  • 650
  • Member since:
    04-21-2015

Don't like the idea. The way it is, it provides more variety over many battles. Also creating favorable situations, like being the sole LT in an open map, particularly great for spotting missions, super-HT in open map w/o fartys, significantly improving chances to do bounce missions, etc...

Following your idea, it would boil down to more uniform battles, significantly increasing the repetitive boredom factor.



PowJay #3 Posted 17 July 2019 - 12:35 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 39304 battles
  • 5,234
  • Member since:
    09-07-2012

View PostWhoCares01, on 17 July 2019 - 11:27 AM, said:

Don't like the idea. The way it is, it provides more variety over many battles. Also creating favorable situations, like being the sole LT in an open map, particularly great for spotting missions, super-HT in open map w/o fartys, significantly improving chances to do bounce missions, etc...

Following your idea, it would boil down to more uniform battles, significantly increasing the repetitive boredom factor.

 

A fair point. Perhaps you don't play as many TDs as I do. You need to remember that this is supposed to be a "team" game. Yeah! I know as well! We are supposed to work together while also trying to achieve individual goals set by either WG or by ourselves. A light tank cannot win a match alone, but can certainly lose one. LTs still have a camo advantage on the move to enable them to scout and yet they are not present on open maps where they can shine.

 

The only reason I play LTs is for spotting/LT campaign missions. I can do OK in them, although I don't shine often. I always TRY to prioritise scouting- at least early on- because that is (or should be) my primary role on open maps. But when I play TDs we get the one idiot who wants to be a heavy, or a TD or just decides to redline camp until the opportunity arises to do something with minimal risk- as I also saw yesterday.


Can we at least get two LTs per battle? I am not suggesting a hard limit, but none on Prokhorovka and five on Ensk is just- in a word- silly!



Rati_Festa #4 Posted 17 July 2019 - 12:42 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 49078 battles
  • 2,330
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    02-10-2012

A lot of the balance issues would be alleviated by better map design. Some of the meta structure on maps is so rigid it's created some very stale predictable play. Your scenario of 5 lights on Paris, I actually like as that means there are far less brawlers and the whole battle changes into view range, map control and flanking/wolf packing focus battle, rather than wait until the match is decided by 4 orange/red noobs driving Type 5's and Is7's.

 

This game would be infinitely improved with a focus on producing more maps like Sand River and Redshire, where all tanks can get involved and have multiple options/roles. The inclusion of maps like Paris, Himmelsdorf and Mines are just degrading the game imo. Producing maps that are class unfriendly ( even for arty :) ) is just annoying customers... it's never a good idea.



WhoCares01 #5 Posted 17 July 2019 - 01:02 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 19531 battles
  • 650
  • Member since:
    04-21-2015

View PostPowJay, on 17 July 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

 

A fair point. Perhaps you don't play as many TDs as I do. You need to remember that this is supposed to be a "team" game. Yeah! I know as well! We are supposed to work together while also trying to achieve individual goals set by either WG or by ourselves. A light tank cannot win a match alone, but can certainly lose one. LTs still have a camo advantage on the move to enable them to scout and yet they are not present on open maps where they can shine.

 

The only reason I play LTs is for spotting/LT campaign missions. I can do OK in them, although I don't shine often. I always TRY to prioritise scouting- at least early on- because that is (or should be) my primary role on open maps. But when I play TDs we get the one idiot who wants to be a heavy, or a TD or just decides to redline camp until the opportunity arises to do something with minimal risk- as I also saw yesterday.


Can we at least get two LTs per battle? I am not suggesting a hard limit, but none on Prokhorovka and five on Ensk is just- in a word- silly!

But none on Prokh can also be great for a STRV or stealthy MT to take the aggressive spotting position which he would never do if there were LTs around.

Just as well as a no farty Prokh allows an assault gun to push, like me in my T95 in a tier 10 battle yesterday (in that case after our LTs died as well), in the end survived with barely a scratch received, 1.5k damage done (baaad, I know :(, bounced 3x on E75 ), >5k bounced, >6k spotting; certainly wouldn't do that if there were 4 fartys around...


Edited by WhoCares01, 17 July 2019 - 01:03 PM.


VonniVidiVici #6 Posted 17 July 2019 - 01:24 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 38691 battles
  • 12,519
  • Member since:
    03-18-2013

That's the glory of complete randomness. I wouldn't want to see it changed for two reasons: the first is that I think it would increase queue times, and those are nowhere near as short as they used to be as it is.

Second is that I in no way trust WG not to screw up anything class-related. Didn't they expect paper TD's to "use their armour" in some recent event or other?



PowJay #7 Posted 17 July 2019 - 01:40 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 39304 battles
  • 5,234
  • Member since:
    09-07-2012

The concept of the heavy scout is something I have seen and done myself, although HTs are one of my least-played classes. MTs are my second-most played vehicle class and if scouts are absent or dead, then I do try to do what meds to best- be versatile- depending on which med it is.

 

 

There does seem to be a significant issue- IMHO- with players who want to play LTs as any other class of vehicle than as scouts. I know that not all LTs were "scouts" in the MM sense of the word, and I know that some do it better than others, but when I see bottom-tier LTs getting in the way of HTs trying to brawl with other HTs while vast areas of the map are being controlled by the enemy, it really does annoy me- to avoid the censors.

 

Other than arming LTs with pea-shooters, so that players are forced to scout or not play, I don't know what the answer is. Perhaps some additional benefit to scouting achievements would be an incentive, but other than that, I have to admit that I have nothing particular in mind.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #8 Posted 17 July 2019 - 02:31 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 33585 battles
  • 4,095
  • [FISHY] FISHY
  • Member since:
    06-13-2015

For one thing you have to bear in mind that the MM can only work with what is in the queue so if players aren't rolling out a convenient mixture of tank classes you are going to get odd matchups.

 

That said, I have no problem with things the way they are. So long as both sides have the same lineup it's as fair as it can get and having an unusual lineup keeps things interesting. 






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users