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Chieftain Question


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TungstenHitman #1 Posted 17 July 2019 - 04:06 PM

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So,

 

Since this tank is new and there's going to be a lot of them flooding T10 which means everything playing T8 tanks and upward are going to encounter them a lot I am just looking for info on how to deal with these frontally on the plethora of corridor and hull down map. So where's their frontal weak spots?

 

I was just playing around with the 3D model on tanks.gg and it doesn't look like the finished offering so it's hard to know. As it is, it looks like the only frontal weak spot is it's lower plate and a 2 pixel pancake sized commanders hatch on the turret. Everything else is reading 310mm->600+ effective armor and highly angled which is basically immune even to the best of premium ammo. Surely not right?

 

https://tanks.gg/tank/t95fv4201/model



If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #2 Posted 17 July 2019 - 04:13 PM

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There are thee 0.0mm view holes in the front plate pointing left, front and right

 

Load up with big fat number 3 HE rounds and blast away until you can flank it



Cobra6 #3 Posted 17 July 2019 - 04:15 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 17 July 2019 - 03:06 PM, said:

So,

 

Since this tank is new and there's going to be a lot of them flooding T10 which means everything playing T8 tanks and upward are going to encounter them a lot I am just looking for info on how to deal with these frontally on the plethora of corridor and hull down map. So where's their frontal weak spots?

 

I was just playing around with the 3D model on tanks.gg and it doesn't look like the finished offering so it's hard to know. As it is, it looks like the only frontal weak spot is it's lower plate and a 2 pixel pancake sized commanders hatch on the turret. Everything else is reading 310mm->600+ effective armor and highly angled which is basically immune even to the best of premium ammo. Surely not right?

 

https://tanks.gg/tank/t95fv4201/model

 

Well, Wargaming has been hard at work the past 4-5 years to remove all viable frontal weak spots for same tier standard ammo, so yes.

All is normal in WoT where weak spots have more flat armour then same tier standard ammo has penetration.

 

Cobra 6



If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #4 Posted 17 July 2019 - 04:19 PM

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You will need arty to shoot at it and EBRs to flank it

 

Thank god for arty and EBRs



XxKuzkina_MatxX #5 Posted 17 July 2019 - 04:19 PM

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Take a look at the model in armor inspector. It shows the correct armor values.

cro001 #6 Posted 17 July 2019 - 06:12 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 17 July 2019 - 04:06 PM, said:

So where's their frontal weak spots?

 

Spoiler

 



TungstenHitman #7 Posted 17 July 2019 - 06:26 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 17 July 2019 - 03:19 PM, said:

Take a look at the model in armor inspector. It shows the correct armor values.

 

Excellent site thanks, I'll mark it for checking out other tanks too in future. The wot.gg is not complete with it's Chieftain armor inspector just yet and the lower plate looked like a thin little slither that would be hard to hit but I don't think that's the case. It's still a very strong armored tank and if the lower plate is hidden damn near invisible looking but it's a tier10 heavy and when you consider the likes of the IS-7 etc I guess that's nothing too uncommon but just makes the "special ammo change" hypocritically clueless and laughable since as mentioned there are so many maps tailored for these style of tanks to drool along or work a ridge impervious to everything other than SPG and the odd small little hp trim from a big caliber firing HE. 

 

It is a heavy tank after all and supposed to be able to push flanks effectively I guess. Real problem is the other stats that go with a tank like this. So, it has the God like frontal armor, fine, different tools for different jobs but if this game is supposed to be balanced and broken in different tanks for different job then why too do these higher tier heavy tanks get other stats that make them very much able to play every sort of role? I mean, take this tank, along with many other top tier heavy tanks, it has the armor but it also has view range SO great that with a decent crew you don't even need to use optics to achieve 445+ view range, and that's even before food is added, why the foch should a heavy tank get that level of view range?? does this give light tanks a role to play then? Well on most maps the answer is no not really, since a light tanks supposed superior view range and camo is massively negated by a bloody heavy tank without optics and when it comes to it's firepower this heavy tank has a 1.85 second aim time, .31 dispersion, laughably good 1150 shell velocity, 270 standard pen and 320+ gold along with decent alpha and awesome DPM so it's just as good if not better than TD's at picking out weak spots and sniping... again what the foch is that about? and it's even pretty decent mobility so the real question here is why have the balance dept in WG given higher tier heavies all these other God like abilities? Makes no sense.

 

Every class should in ways be reliant on other classes within the team to create this rock paper scissors sort of situation to create genuine pros and cons to playing each and every class along with each class serving a purpose, not a heavy tank being the complete package wrapped in invincible frontal armor. If there's genuinely supposed to be some rock paper scissors sort of balance between playing each class then the view range and accuracy needs to get smashed for heavy tanks, not be the spotter, the TD, brawler and heavy tank all at the same time. Think it's way too late for that though and it's not going to change anytime soon. Moving on.... 



XxKuzkina_MatxX #8 Posted 17 July 2019 - 06:42 PM

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But it's a reward! :)

 

Seriously though, one of the balancing factors WG uses is quantity. There are not much of those running around in tier 10 (4924 as per wot-news). You can see the same with the Type 62, E25, Defender, etc.

 

Still a very strong tank and it also partially killed the Chieftain Mk.6.



Dava_117 #9 Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:29 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 17 July 2019 - 06:42 PM, said:

But it's a reward! :)

 

Seriously though, one of the balancing factors WG uses is quantity. There are not much of those running around in tier 10 (4924 as per wot-news). You can see the same with the Type 62, E25, Defender, etc.

 

Still a very strong tank and it also partially killed the Chieftain Mk.6.

 

To be fair server population, as ammo capacity, should not be a balancing factor. Just because it's rare it should not be OP.

_6i6_ #10 Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:31 PM

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ive had two of those today in 2 straight t10 matches, not fun against them with E75

ExclamationMark #11 Posted 17 July 2019 - 11:03 PM

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Well, if it's hulldown, there are none. If it isn't, LFP and cupola are weak, though good luck hitting the cupola. The chances of you coming across a player in a Chieftain which will allow you to get a shot on their cupola is a slim to none. 

Sides and rear are weak though, which is nice. 



Benistown_GagsoisbisteDD #12 Posted 17 July 2019 - 11:05 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 17 July 2019 - 06:26 PM, said:

 

Excellent site thanks, I'll mark it for checking out other tanks too in future. The wot.gg is not complete with it's Chieftain armor inspector just yet and the lower plate looked like a thin little slither that would be hard to hit but I don't think that's the case. It's still a very strong armored tank and if the lower plate is hidden damn near invisible looking but it's a tier10 heavy and when you consider the likes of the IS-7 etc I guess that's nothing too uncommon but just makes the "special ammo change" hypocritically clueless and laughable since as mentioned there are so many maps tailored for these style of tanks to drool along or work a ridge impervious to everything other than SPG and the odd small little hp trim from a big caliber firing HE. 

 

It is a heavy tank after all and supposed to be able to push flanks effectively I guess. Real problem is the other stats that go with a tank like this. So, it has the God like frontal armor, fine, different tools for different jobs but if this game is supposed to be balanced and broken in different tanks for different job then why too do these higher tier heavy tanks get other stats that make them very much able to play every sort of role? I mean, take this tank, along with many other top tier heavy tanks, it has the armor but it also has view range SO great that with a decent crew you don't even need to use optics to achieve 445+ view range, and that's even before food is added, why the foch should a heavy tank get that level of view range?? does this give light tanks a role to play then? Well on most maps the answer is no not really, since a light tanks supposed superior view range and camo is massively negated by a bloody heavy tank without optics and when it comes to it's firepower this heavy tank has a 1.85 second aim time, .31 dispersion, laughably good 1150 shell velocity, 270 standard pen and 320+ gold along with decent alpha and awesome DPM so it's just as good if not better than TD's at picking out weak spots and sniping... again what the foch is that about? and it's even pretty decent mobility so the real question here is why have the balance dept in WG given higher tier heavies all these other God like abilities? Makes no sense.

 

Every class should in ways be reliant on other classes within the team to create this rock paper scissors sort of situation to create genuine pros and cons to playing each and every class along with each class serving a purpose, not a heavy tank being the complete package wrapped in invincible frontal armor. If there's genuinely supposed to be some rock paper scissors sort of balance between playing each class then the view range and accuracy needs to get smashed for heavy tanks, not be the spotter, the TD, brawler and heavy tank all at the same time. Think it's way too late for that though and it's not going to change anytime soon. Moving on.... 

 

Funnily enough chieftain is kinda like the 430u, the armor layout is the same ufp about 250eff for ap, pennable lower and amazing turret and the soft stats for gun are almost the same 430u having slightly better soft stats and chieftain slightly better aimtime.
Chief is slower, but has depression and the premium rounds of both have good and bad side so they more or less are equal.

Obvs if you are firing apcr its going to weak af against the ufp since it relies on angle, but heat should slice trough it like butter on even ground.
 

tajj7 #13 Posted 18 July 2019 - 08:32 AM

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Hull down you can't, the cupola is hard to hit and is pretty much hidden with gun depression.

 

Lower plate is v.weak though so if you can see that even from an angle should be an easy pen.

 

Hull down basically go somewhere else or hope the player over peeks, I noticed that a lot of players in ranked over peeked in them and often exposed their sides or lower plate. 

 

It's a ridiculously strong tank for a competent player, which most of the owners are. But I suppose the only positive here is they are quite rare so they will only annoy time to time, even last night when you'd expect a lot more of them to be out as the rewards were released I didn't see that many. 



kuszi1994 #14 Posted 18 July 2019 - 11:34 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 18 July 2019 - 07:32 AM, said:

Hull down you can't, the cupola is hard to hit and is pretty much hidden with gun depression.

 

Lower plate is v.weak though so if you can see that even from an angle should be an easy pen.

 

Hull down basically go somewhere else or hope the player over peeks, I noticed that a lot of players in ranked over peeked in them and often exposed their sides or lower plate. 

 

It's a ridiculously strong tank for a competent player, which most of the owners are. But I suppose the only positive here is they are quite rare so they will only annoy time to time, even last night when you'd expect a lot more of them to be out as the rewards were released I didn't see that many. 

Alot of plebs got it to.. so y its just an idiotproof tank which does not have to be in game at any point :/ similar to 907 and his ufo armor lower plate are so small and sometimes its bounce you down to left and right



Balc0ra #15 Posted 18 July 2019 - 11:53 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 17 July 2019 - 06:26 PM, said:

 

Excellent site thanks, I'll mark it for checking out other tanks too in future.

 

They have a mobile app too that's rather handy and shows the same UI and model details.

 

As a tier 8 you can forget about the turret and the upper hull. Or lower plate at times. Even less so if he holds the ridgeline and using max gun depression. Cupola is way to small to hit at med range reliably. But if he comes in at an angle. The armor behind the upper portion of the skirts is about 170 effective vs 250+ on the front hull or lower plate. That's the only spot I've hit them reliably as a lower tier.



TungstenHitman #16 Posted 18 July 2019 - 01:45 PM

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Not to worry, like you guys say, not that many people have them so only 8 per battle instead of all 30... doh!

 



sokolicc #17 Posted 18 July 2019 - 03:47 PM

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I have both Chieftain and 907 and don't use them in randoms.
From ruski meds 140 is my first tier 10 and my ruski go-to tank, with much much better gun.
Chieftain have somehow derpy gun handling, unlike conq and only strong part is frontal turret armor. Rest is crap and artas are raping him badly. And i am bored from it, campaign was annoying, i am tired of seeing Chieftain in my garage.

So, in capable hands even 121 is op.
For me far worse issue is 279(e).
You're struggling even with 330-340 heat for upper plate especially since it's tall tank and on flat ground it's even stronger.
14:48 Added after 1 minute

View PostTungstenHitman, on 18 July 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

Not to worry, like you guys say, not that many people have them so only 8 per battle instead of all 30... doh!

 

 

Of course you see them, people just got tanks and want to try them.


Edited by sokolicc, 18 July 2019 - 04:31 PM.





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