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New Personal Reserves for Frontline


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Zmago5000 #101 Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:05 AM

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I JUST HOPE the price is not too high,  that I wil be able to  get that Chinese HT that requires P6 .


 



SoupFork #102 Posted 22 July 2019 - 03:05 PM

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Frontline: playing 10 full marathons to earn just 2 tanks, on the same map over and over again and by month 6 the majority of the players still have no clue what to do.

WG: This is fun!



Sael_ #103 Posted 22 July 2019 - 03:53 PM

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Oh boy, this is gonna be a long post. Please bear with. :D

 

View PostVokatius, on 18 July 2019 - 01:52 PM, said:

Sooooooo at first, you bump the XP requirements between FL 2018 and FL 2019 up by roughly 100% and now you would like to sell us some boosters that increase the gained XP by 100% to make the progression as easy as last year.....

Oh well, still better than releasing more Op premium tanks.

View PostVarzA, on 18 July 2019 - 03:09 PM, said:

 

So you have realized that many ppl simply don't want to bother with Frontlines because of the astronomical increases in XP needed for each stage now (3x as much as the original).

 

Well, that's good, but the question is .... why buy them when they will probably cost an arm and a leg ?

 

PS: In case someone missed this, this is a fix (that will cost money) to a problem that WG themselves created.

 

Well, first FL happened for a relatively short duration as a one time only event, while for this year it was brought back with a different structure and duration - one week every month for most of the year. If the event is longer, how wrong could it be that the requirements to complete it are also higher? :D

Now, the mode was brought back due to its popularity, people loved it mainly because it was fun to play. The current progression system was added as a plus, for the interest of that part of the audience that likes to dedicate themselves to a game mode with a specific goal/prize in mind, and likes the challenge of reaching it by putting in regular amounts of effort. If the challenge were to be too easy or too short to complete, the prizes would lose their value (not to mention rarity and prestige) and the game mode would get boring very fast for that type of players. Making the challenge tough but fair ensures the longevity of the mode, and a higher amount of fun to be had by playing it overall.

Your feedback concerning the progression however has been pointing in the direction of it being a bit too much time consuming and grindy in general, so we have decided to do something to aid you in your journey. If we were to suddenly reduce the requirements, we would be rendering useless a lot of the effort that part of the players have already largely invested to reach the point they are at, so we have opted for something that won't erase the challenge, but will make it more tolerable to face.

 

View PostJumping_Turtle, on 18 July 2019 - 05:33 PM, said:

So you made an error, saw players quiting, found a solution, but still have to make money out of it ...

 

How typical Wargaming

View Postmgns, on 18 July 2019 - 01:59 PM, said:

Introduced during the later part of the season, when people are real tired of the grind but with the end just barely in sight. Probably at about the same point when they know people will give up on the vehicle marathons and just buy the damn thing. Funny how that worked out!

 

For the version being tested right now, the personal reserves are free if you earn them by playing random battles. We understand, however, that some players are experiencing a certain burn out, so we put a price on them to be obtained immediately. If we were to give them away with no effort and no price, it would not be very cool in regards of those that have been investing a lot of time and effort grinding their way up until now, would it? Heck, some are protesting about this right now, even if there's still effort to be put/a price to pay with this fix. :D

 

View PostRittmeister39, on 18 July 2019 - 02:03 PM, said:

FL not so popular anymore? People don't like it because everybody has arta+spotting "skill" and you get sh1t on by roaming packs of EBRs?

How to fix that? Ah yes, give them xp-cookies so they feel better playing a mode they despise.

makes sense

 

This change is not being introduced as an universal cure for every single issue perceived by the community. You have expressed negative feelings concerning how tough the grind is, and we're implementing something new to follow up on your feedback concerning this issue. Other problems flagged by the community may require more data to be gathered and more internal testing before we're able to fix what needs fixing.

Let's take the introduction of a new map for example! A normal map for random battles requires a long process to be made, tested, balanced and changed before being released. A map for FL is like a bunch of maps for random battles having to come all together, so you can imagine this increases time before release significantly, and yet there's a new one on the way that should be released at least before the year ends if no mishaps take place.
This is an essential process that you definitely don't want to rush just for the sake of variety, as a map not built or tested properly will make for bad gameplay.

 

View PostZamieszki, on 18 July 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

The only reason I play frontline is to unlock missing modules on stock tech tree tier 8s, before taking them to randoms.

If I didn't do that I would not touch this mode at all.

 

 

There are very many reasons to play or not play FL mode. Some people play it for the prizes, some others just for fun. We're not telling you how to play what to play, we're trying to offer something to look forward to for every type of player out there. Some players didn't get involved with FL at all, and that's why there is an entire rest of the game still there to entertain them. :D

 

View Postvixu, on 19 July 2019 - 06:12 PM, said:

Are there any plans on when reserves will be introduced? Will there be enough time to get those from randoms before episode 7?

 

Currently we are testing them, so we won't know the answers to these questions until this phase is over and we will decide whether we want to test another change or implement them in the client.

 



Weak_man #104 Posted 22 July 2019 - 04:26 PM

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Next year if You make that xp between levels to be reported to the next battle (not to be stolen by xp after every game) and introduce boosters from begining will not be that bad.

Now grinding is exhausting even if I get to major almoust every game (and this with more than 60 % gold and even then with more than 10-15 no damage shoots).



Covenant_R #105 Posted 22 July 2019 - 05:04 PM

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View PostSael_, on 22 July 2019 - 03:53 PM, said:

Oh boy, this is gonna be a long post. Please bear with. :D
[LOTS OF INFO]


Thank you for offering some insight.
At its base, Frontline is a good game mode, but, there are a  lot of things that make it into the grind and the frustration that comes with it. The dependency on time is very steap, but had it not been as frustrating as it can be, it would've been fine by itself, so I really appreciate the boosters, since I when starting out had lots of time, and currently don't.

 

Good Stuff

* Same tier gameplay.

* Large scale map with freedom of movement.

* Good credit making, less need to use premium ammo.

* Heavily objective based game mode.
* Both Cap and Targets.

* Somewhat varied map design. Could be taken further with even a city cap, etc.

 


Worse Stuff

I do however have a few things about what makes it so frustrating despite the great base it has.

 

Grinding time is severe…
And the stepping in conjunction with the time gating of a round being fixed time and steps between ranks being very high makes that last shot missed more frustrating and remembered then all shots made into the next rank.

Rank Games Time 23m/game Prestige Prestige 10
General 26 598 9h58m 99h40m
Major 34 782 13h2m 130h20m
Captain 51 1173 19h33m 195h30m
Lieutenant 88 2024 33h44m 337h30m
Sergeant 204 4676 77h57m 779h20m

 

 

The other largest frustrations are the following, only limited this to the most important, because it really adds a lot of frustration that really wouldn't be there.


UI/General
* Front Team Listing - Not being able to view the fronts

- Instead of My Front / All Fronts.... why not just add…. 1st, 2nd, 3rd and All Fronts. That way you can see how many players are on each front before you spawn.
* Spotting XP - Non existent. I can spot a cap, making it possible for people to shoot the cap, get 3500 spotting damage, and it does almost nothing to FLXP meter.

* Only one map - Being worked on - cant wait for the next map.
 

Caps
* Sitting in a cap, gathering 100 cap points, then get hit by 5 arty strikes, and finally killed by arty itself, only to die, all teammates surviving, capping 5 seconds later, and getting nothing for holding out for several minutes in a cap.

- Fix would be to have two components to cap, one for all cap point tics, one for completing the cap.

Repair Circles
* Being shot at by arty, bombed by arty consumables, defenders that move behind and camp the repair circles. Total frustration that it triggers the cooldown so you are out for more minutes or need to take the next circle far away. often they are placed in ways so they can be easily seen and shot at.

- Make repair circles immune to strikes from above.


Spawns
* C-Spawn especially is somewhat isolated, and most often the seen as the worst spawn, because it offers easy defense, and little traverse between flanks for attacking side. Also the spawn is prone to being spawn camped by defending team that go in and bottle up taking control of the attackers repair circle. Just a bridge on the attackers side would do a lot here and moving a repair circle back behind defensive lines.
* Second part is as soon as any first line ABC is capped, defenders spawn move too far back into DEF territory on all fronts, making defense impossible to get back to the point if its being capped.


Targets
* Opening up the targets before at least two cap second line caps have been taken jumbles the whole field around, or end the round prematurely because a single platoon goes in and start killing off targets to end the round quickly.

Consumables
* Having any tank with 3 consumables choosable freely is sadly ripe for abuse, arty was at least limited, now with heavy having the ability, defensive heavy platoons not only being hard to take down with shots, but when they also have 6 arty strikes they ripe for abusing defense mechanics. While LT's feels a bit too anemic compared to before considering they are the most vulnerable to said arty, and often the ones being first in cap.
- An easy fix would be to just give every tank 2 slots, or only allow for one offensive slot with the other 1 or 2 slots being utility/defensive. So you can never equip double arty strikes.
 



undutchable80 #106 Posted 22 July 2019 - 05:30 PM

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View PostSael_, on 22 July 2019 - 03:53 PM, said:

 

We understand, however, that some players are experiencing a certain burn out, so we put a price on them to be obtained immediately. If we were to give them away with no effort and no price, it would not be very cool in regards of those that have been investing a lot of time and effort grinding their way up until now, would it? 

 

That is why I wrote this:

View Postundutchable80, on 22 July 2019 - 08:47 AM, said:

 

On the other hand, test it by all means, but save the introduction for next year's FL campaign, so we all can benefit equally. Or compensate those players that have put in the time until now with free FL XP boosters; Have you reached P8? You get 50 FL XP boosters. P7? 40 boosters. Etc etc, with P4 or less receiving 0 free boosters. Those that want to play catchup using this feature can pay for the booster. I already did with my time.

 



reesku #107 Posted 22 July 2019 - 06:39 PM

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View PostSael_, on 22 July 2019 - 03:53 PM, said:

Oh boy, this is gonna be a long post. Please bear with. :D

 

 

Your feedback concerning the progression however has been pointing in the direction of it being a bit too much time consuming and grindy in general, so we have decided to do something to aid you in your journey. If we were to suddenly reduce the requirements, we would be rendering useless a lot of the effort that part of the players have already largely invested to reach the point they are at, so we have opted for something that won't erase the challenge, but will make it more tolerable to face.

 

 

For the version being tested right now, the personal reserves are free if you earn them by playing random battles. We understand, however, that some players are experiencing a certain burn out, so we put a price on them to be obtained immediately. If we were to give them away with no effort and no price, it would not be very cool in regards of those that have been investing a lot of time and effort grinding their way up until now, would it?

 

 

So you're saying reducing the requirements for ranking up and progressing through prestiges would be unfair and would anger those who already grinded a lot with the old requirements. As opposed to now offering the option to buy that reduction for money... that's fair and cool? It will still anger those people the same way or perhaps even more, because the difference is that such normal reduction would also benefit the people who grinded a lot in the past, since they still have some prestige levels to go through, but now they will have to pay money to get that progression faster. (Yes yes, I know you can get them for free via random battles, but knowing your tactics chances of winning those reserves will be extremely low, like in case of the crew books). That change doesn't solve the problem of the people who grinded a lot in the past, it will only anger even more people.

 

It's apparent to everybody who follows this game for a longer period, that the only thing WG is interested in, is filling their pockets by squeezing as much money as possible. On one hand I can't blame the company for trying to increase the income, but on the other hand I can't comprehend how WG cannot understand that in the long run it would make even more money by introducing changes which are focused on making the game more player friendly, rather than focusing solely on quick injection of money by introducing changes which damage the game in the long run.

 

Even the so called "premium ammo rebalance" is focused on changing the economy to increase the income, because WG don't want to address the lack of weakpoints and OP armored tanks, or MM to make 1 tier battles which would also help. Instead you're testing increasing the tanks HP and regular ammo damage. What this achieves is that tanks which you can't pen without premium ammo you're still not gonna pen, but now you will have to shoot more premium rounds to eliminate it thus making the whole thing even more expensive. And the lightly armored tanks which you can pen normally with regular ammo, yeah perhaps you would switch from premium, but who cares if he's getting penned by regular or premium if he doesn't have armor? This is not the solution to the problem people complain about (not me personally, I don't have problems with the current system). And you even stated yourself after the first iteration of the tests that you're lowering the difference in damage, because people were reluctant to use premium ammo, they would rather shoot regular even if they don't pen just to have possibility of dealing much bigger damage - and this would hurt your income. :) 

 

Sorry for going a little bit offtopic, but this was to proof my point, that despite a lot of PR and lovely phrases, the changes being introduced are not focused only on fixing the problems, but they're primarily focused on getting more and more money. And that's what upsets the playerbase the most, personally I can live with paying for playing nonstop with premium account, or buying some premium tanks from time to time, but seeing how every single thing you do is just to squeeze more and more from the people that love this game is just disgusting, and drives people away.



mgns #108 Posted 23 July 2019 - 12:23 AM

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View PostSael_, on 22 July 2019 - 02:53 PM, said:

 

For the version being tested right now, the personal reserves are free if you earn them by playing random battles. We understand, however, that some players are experiencing a certain burn out, so we put a price on them to be obtained immediately. If we were to give them away with no effort and no price, it would not be very cool in regards of those that have been investing a lot of time and effort grinding their way up until now, would it? Heck, some are protesting about this right now, even if there's still effort to be put/a price to pay with this fix. :D

 

You could have just removed the prestige 10 requirement from the AE...

 

But everyone knows why you didn't.



Firebrande #109 Posted 23 July 2019 - 12:41 AM

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Not impressed by this as this is aimed at the players who didn't commit early, they can catch up now by paying....

 

The Frontline massive increase in grind time, the changes reducing effective score during the campaign to achieve the unknown tank shouldn't now be made available by buying boosters.....



LastGod #110 Posted 24 July 2019 - 08:19 AM

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View PostSael_, on 22 July 2019 - 02:53 PM, said:

Oh boy, this is gonna be a long post. Please bear with. :D

 

 

Well, first FL happened for a relatively short duration as a one time only event, while for this year it was brought back with a different structure and duration - one week every month for most of the year. If the event is longer, how wrong could it be that the requirements to complete it are also higher? :D

Now, the mode was brought back due to its popularity, people loved it mainly because it was fun to play. The current progression system was added as a plus, for the interest of that part of the audience that likes to dedicate themselves to a game mode with a specific goal/prize in mind, and likes the challenge of reaching it by putting in regular amounts of effort. If the challenge were to be too easy or too short to complete, the prizes would lose their value (not to mention rarity and prestige) and the game mode would get boring very fast for that type of players. Making the challenge tough but fair ensures the longevity of the mode, and a higher amount of fun to be had by playing it overall.

Your feedback concerning the progression however has been pointing in the direction of it being a bit too much time consuming and grindy in general, so we have decided to do something to aid you in your journey. If we were to suddenly reduce the requirements, we would be rendering useless a lot of the effort that part of the players have already largely invested to reach the point they are at, so we have opted for something that won't erase the challenge, but will make it more tolerable to face.

...

Your argument there hold no water as described:

View Postreesku, on 22 July 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

 

So you're saying reducing the requirements for ranking up and progressing through prestiges would be unfair and would anger those who already grinded a lot with the old requirements. As opposed to now offering the option to buy that reduction for money... that's fair and cool? It will still anger those people the same way or perhaps even more, because the difference is that such normal reduction would also benefit the people who grinded a lot in the past, since they still have some prestige levels to go through, but now they will have to pay money to get that progression faster. (Yes yes, I know you can get them for free via random battles, but knowing your tactics chances of winning those reserves will be extremely low, like in case of the crew books). That change doesn't solve the problem of the people who grinded a lot in the past, it will only anger even more people.

 

Considering you can just buy the boosters for money... what's the difference between *lowering the requirements* and *boosting the the exp gain rate*? Both end with less general EXP needed to level up. There is 0 difference safe for the fact that we'd have to grind/pay for your "better" solution. How about fix the issue with exp between ranks going into the ether? That way you will both assist the grind since there will be no more "lost" exp AND you won't have to reduce the actual milestones? (Additionally the point of frustration of "the last missed shot for the rank" will also be solved which, if you have ever played the mode, you probably know that it's absolutely infuriating).

 

What's your argument against that, WG? I'm curious. Are you incapable of implementing that?






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