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Rhm. Skorpion vs. Rhm.-Borsig

skorpion balance bwt

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denisslovin #1 Posted 21 July 2019 - 11:44 AM

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Helleveryone!


I played with RHM Skorpion G and RHM BWT and I realised that the Skorpion G is a much better vehicle, maybe too good compared to BWT.

I will make a short comparison down below to show you why.


1. Skorpion is much faster than BWT

Skorpion - 60 km/h (forward) / 20 km/h (backward)

BWT - 35 km/h (forward) / 12 km/h (backward)

2. Skorpion have better power/weight ratio than BWT

Skorpion - 17 HP/t

BWT - 11.15 HP/t

3. Skorpion is much accurate than BWT

Skorpion - 0.29 (100m)

BWT - 0.34 (100m)

4. Skorpion have better aim time than BWT

Skorpion - 2.01 s

BWT - 2.21 s

5. Skorpion even have better armor and health than BWT

Skorpion - 30/16/20 and 1150 hitpoints

BWT - 20/10/8 and 1100 hitpoints

Skorpion only have slightly worse dispersion during movement (0.04 more than BWT) and slightly worse tank traverse and terrain resistance.

RHM BWT only have better camouflage, but is still not enough.


It is not difficult to see that the Skorpion is a better tank overall than RHM BWT, and I think that the difference between this two vehicle is too big, considering that the Skorpion is a premium tank which you can get it only by paying Wargaming. 

I think this gives a bad image to the company and it leaves to the game the impression of "pay to have much better tanks than the standard ones".

I know that the premium vehicles are more better and I don't blame that, but the difference between Skorpion and BWT can not be overlooked.


I propose to buff the hm. BWT and not to nerf the Skorpion,

because it is possible that those who own it may not be satisfied by the changes which will be brought.

Firstly, it will be better if BWT will be more accurate (maybe 0.30 or even 0.29 because is much slower than Skorpion and seems to be fair enough). Only with this change the tank will be more pleasant to play and the Skorpion will not be way to good than the standard TD's anymore and the F2P players will have part of a more better experience.


 

​Thank you for your patience and I hope that the Rhm.-Borsig will be a more competitive in the battlefield.

Do you thing that this changes will help?


Edited by denisslovin, 21 July 2019 - 09:44 PM.


JocMeister #2 Posted 21 July 2019 - 11:50 AM

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I´m sorry dude but I´m not even going to try and read that with that font and text size.

denisslovin #3 Posted 21 July 2019 - 11:55 AM

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View PostJocMeister, on 21 July 2019 - 12:50 PM, said:

I´m sorry dude but I´m not even going to try and read that with that font and text size.

 

Is Times New Roman and now I reduced the text size

Balc0ra #4 Posted 21 July 2019 - 12:09 PM

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Too god compared to it? Well depends on your style I guess. I find the Borsig better for my style. As one is faster, more accurate, but also taller. The other is slower, but has more DPM, camo and a lower profile and has the 15cm option. And thus  As when everyone presses 3. That HP difference won't matter much. 

 

View Postdenisslovin, on 21 July 2019 - 11:44 AM, said:

Firstly, it will be better if BWT will be more accurate (maybe 0.30 or even 0.29 because is much slower than Skorpion and seems to be fair enough). Only with this change the tank will be more

 

Keep in mind the Borsig has almost a 2 sec faster reload vs it. I suspect that's a factor for the dispersion difference. And the server-wide WR for both "Skinned version vs Borsig" are more or less the same. So one is not trailing behind the other. Unlike the Tiger II vs the Lowe. As the Tiger II's global WR is dropping each time I check it.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #5 Posted 21 July 2019 - 12:10 PM

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The borsig also has...

 

  • Double the camo values (22.52/13.51%) vs. (11.57/7.87%).
  • The option to use the 15cm gun with 750 alpha and 334mm HEAT penetration.
  • Slightly higher DPM using the 12.8cm (2666 vs. 2410).

 

Taking the above into consideration, is the Skorpion still 'much' better than the borsig? In my opinion no, they are different tanks with different play styles. Their efficiency depends on the map and the player's choices.



Valdemare_2 #6 Posted 21 July 2019 - 12:28 PM

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Skorpion is far better is u know the game.  Mobility .... gun depression ....  I played borsig yesterday, -5 gun depression is a real prob.  If u have troubles, u cannot relocate, that's the key of a fight.  

 

Nowdays, a fight last 5 mins, borsig need too much time to cross the map.  Borsig was a good one, was...

 

Dispersion of the borsig big gun is 0.4,  thats a lot.  Skorpion is 0.3.


Edited by Valdemare_2, 21 July 2019 - 12:34 PM.


ThinGun #7 Posted 21 July 2019 - 12:28 PM

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"Better" depends on the player.  

Spurtung #8 Posted 21 July 2019 - 12:31 PM

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"I want it to be better, therefore I'm claiming it's much worse than some other one. Pat my back and say yes."

UrQuan #9 Posted 21 July 2019 - 12:37 PM

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They're two tank destroyers fit for different roles (as mentioned above). They're pretty on par imo when you keep the different roles they fill in mind. Skorpion has the mobility, Borsig has the camo & gun choice. Don't see a need to buff/nerf either tank.

4nt #10 Posted 21 July 2019 - 12:56 PM

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View PostUrQuan, on 21 July 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

They're two tank destroyers fit for different roles (as mentioned above). They're pretty on par imo when you keep the different roles they fill in mind. Skorpion has the mobility, Borsig has the camo & gun choice. Don't see a need to buff/nerf either tank.

This. If one plays both same way it will always tilt to other tanks favor. Like comparing t-34-85 and strv-74. Apples and oranges, man.



JocMeister #11 Posted 21 July 2019 - 01:15 PM

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They are two completely different tanks. IMO you can´t compare them. Borsig is a full fledged sniper while the Skorpion is more of a MT than a TD.

 

The Skorpion is a better tank for good and better players while the Borsig is better for most players. IMO the Borsig is still one of the best non Swedish redline TDs in the game. The Skorpion is not an easy tank to play well and unless you really know what you are doing you will struggle to do more than 2 shots per game. Its like comparing the E50 and Skoda T50. Both are tier 9 MTs but they are vastly different and can´t be compared.  


Edited by JocMeister, 21 July 2019 - 01:16 PM.


Rainbowkiss83 #12 Posted 21 July 2019 - 01:20 PM

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Why people keep complaining about skorp instead of E25!!!???? :angry:
(or 3 arty per match for example :unsure:)

crnakoza #13 Posted 21 July 2019 - 01:43 PM

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They cannot be compared, just because they are both tier 8 and german and have fully traversable turrets doesn't mean they fit the same roles. So you like the Skorpion more, booo f*cking hooo.

 

Skorpion is like an oversized tier 8 hellcat with really bad camo. People like it because it is more flexible, it can be played almost like a medium if situation calls for it, just like hellcat can. Waffentäger is a pure bush wanking stealthy sniper ninja. It doesn't take too much brain to figure out that sniping TDs and other 'support' tanks are not flexible and are situational and completely team dependant.



Bulldog_Drummond #14 Posted 21 July 2019 - 01:49 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 21 July 2019 - 11:09 AM, said:

Too god compared to it? Well depends on your style I guess. I find the Borsig better for my style. As one is faster, more accurate, but also taller. The other is slower, but has more DPM, camo and a lower profile and has the 15cm option. And thus  As when everyone presses 3. That HP difference won't matter much. 

 

 

Keep in mind the Borsig has almost a 2 sec faster reload vs it. I suspect that's a factor for the dispersion difference. And the server-wide WR for both "Skinned version vs Borsig" are more or less the same. So one is not trailing behind the other. Unlike the Tiger II vs the Lowe. As the Tiger II's global WR is dropping each time I check it.

 

Agreed.  For what it's worth I can make the RhmB work, but not the Skorpion, the main reason being that the RhmB has outstanding camo and the Skorp has a flashing neon sign attached.  And as you say the RhmB has the option of the 15cm gun, which is not to everyone's taste but its HEAT will pen anything on the map and explodes with a massive Kaboom.  Personally I prefer the 15cm, despite its low velocity, as there will always be some opponents who go static for a few seconds.  From memory it is also a lot lighter than the 12.8cm stock gun.

7thSyndicate #15 Posted 21 July 2019 - 04:01 PM

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Genius!! we had no idea

vp56 #16 Posted 22 July 2019 - 12:42 AM

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There are plenty of tanks to consider, and you might have chosen the worst example. Congrats. Honestly, the RHM is a fair bit better when you consider the idea of default "TD gameplay". Heck, it's not pleasant to get whapped by a Skorpion, but you generally do spot the <censored> when they fire.

Xandania #17 Posted 22 July 2019 - 07:45 AM

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View PostRainbowkiss83, on 21 July 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

Why people keep complaining about skorp instead of E25!!!???? :angry:
(or 3 arty per match for example :unsure:)

 

Cause Skorp got alpha and pen, E25 got neither - just camo that is relevant on only some maps. - also, Skorps can badly hurt tier +2, E25 struggles with many tier 8s.

 

And arties are just arties... - no longer the threat they used to be by far



tajj7 #18 Posted 22 July 2019 - 08:26 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 21 July 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

The borsig also has...

 

  • Double the camo values (22.52/13.51%) vs. (11.57/7.87%).
  • The option to use the 15cm gun with 750 alpha and 334mm HEAT penetration.
  • Slightly higher DPM using the 12.8cm (2666 vs. 2410).

 

Taking the above into consideration, is the Skorpion still 'much' better than the borsig? In my opinion no, they are different tanks with different play styles. Their efficiency depends on the map and the player's choices.

 

This.

 

Plus the Borsig with the big gun is hilariously broken if you know what you are doing. 



Lagalaza #19 Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:00 AM

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Really want to get the Borsig now everyone is talking about the broken big gun. The ISU-152 is hilarious in the right situation, if the Borsig is the same or better, I want one!!  :bush:

ThinGun #20 Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:02 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 22 July 2019 - 08:26 AM, said:

 

This.

 

Plus the Borsig with the big gun is hilariously broken if you know what you are doing. 

 

Plus, there's something very manly about having the longest weapon on the map.





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