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Wheeled tanks - EBRs over powered, frustrating game play

Wheeled tanks EBRs Overpowered

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Citynomad #1 Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:33 AM

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Hello,

 

Please do something about the EBRs. They are ridiculously over powered. They are moving around like Mario carts in Nintendo and on top of that they manage to hit you at 90 km/h!!! They are destroying the game, especially in FL when they show up in wolf-packs. It is really frustrating when you put are you skills into the game and you are playing well and suddenly a flock of EBRs comes at you and in less than a minute its over! Like in FL when I reentered the game with a new tank, right there where I started a two EBRs came at me. No chance.Frustrating.

There is no way these vehicles were that "dynamic" as you love to label them in reality. Take a look at real video/film footage, there is no way these tanks move around like they do in WoT.  Please reconsider nerfing these tanks!

 

Kind regards

Citynomad



tajj7 #2 Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:45 AM

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1. Do we need another whine thread?

 

2. Nope they are not OP -

 

Posted Image



NUKLEAR_SLUG #3 Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:49 AM

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Spawn with your team. If you go off alone then getting chewed up by a light tank wolfpack, be it EBR or anything else, is entirely the expected and correct outcome

If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #4 Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:58 AM

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One word

LT432



4nt #5 Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:22 AM

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View PostCitynomad, on 22 July 2019 - 09:33 AM, said:

Hello,

 

Please do something about the EBRs. They are ridiculously over powered. They are moving around like Mario carts in Nintendo and on top of that they manage to hit you at 90 km/h!!! They are destroying the game, especially in FL when they show up in wolf-packs. It is really frustrating when you put are you skills into the game and you are playing well and suddenly a flock of EBRs comes at you and in less than a minute its over! Like in FL when I reentered the game with a new tank, right there where I started a two EBRs came at me. No chance.Frustrating.

There is no way these vehicles were that "dynamic" as you love to label them in reality. Take a look at real video/film footage, there is no way these tanks move around like they do in WoT.  Please reconsider nerfing these tanks!

 

Kind regards

Citynomad

 

If FL EBRs frustrate you this much,

 

1. Stop playing FL

2. ?

3. Profit

 



LordMuffin #6 Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:27 AM

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View Post4nt, on 22 July 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

 

If FL EBRs frustrate you this much,

 

1. Stop playing FL

2. ?

3. Profit

 

When the advices are:

 

Don't like WV - stop playing.

Don't like arty - stop playing.

Don't like MM - stop playing.

Don't like OP tanks - stop playing. 

Don't like UP tanks - stop playing.

Don't like some maps - stop playing. 

And so on.

 

There is no wonder why players are leaving and actual constructive discussion are not to be seen on this forum.



4nt #7 Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:41 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 22 July 2019 - 10:27 AM, said:

When the advices are:

 

Don't like WV - stop playing.

Don't like arty - stop playing.

Don't like MM - stop playing.

Don't like OP tanks - stop playing. 

Don't like UP tanks - stop playing.

Don't like some maps - stop playing. 

And so on.

 

There is no wonder why players are leaving and actual constructive discussion are not to be seen on this forum.

Thing is, OP is already on the way there. I merely take his whine into exaggerated conclusion. If OP is allowed to exaggerate, is it then surprising he might get some sarcastic answers? 

 

He doesn't seem to be willing to discuss. His mind is set and no amount of reasoning will change his mind about solution to his dilemma. He didn't ask for advice, merely rehashing same old complaint of WVs that has been around since their introduction, with same old arguments that boil down to 'I don't like them, so nerf them'.

 

Solutions have been presented in previous threads. Still he wished to open new thread, and initial post seem to indicate similiar expectations as those x OPs before him- pats on the back and wholesale acceptance of his opinion as the sole correct one. Now. I might be wrong, and next up he will ask for true advice, complete with replays where he has been stymied, but if previous threads are anything to go by, there will be insults against anyone who disagrees.

 

YMMV but I believe this thread was lost even before it began.



Oldewolfe #8 Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:46 AM

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Because it's a Logical Answer since None of you like the Other Answers...

 

First, Deal with them because they're Not OP nor Leaving, same as the Artillery....      Killing them is about Timing more than Aiming.....

 

Second, Try them for yourself and see just how Not OP they really are and How Often they're NOT Missed.....      This is why Most are played by Better Players, the Lesser Players Quit playing them....      Not as Easy as you Think to Play....

 

They are Played by People generally Better than You or I as is, I have little Issue killing one or getting him Killed....       And I can do it in a Big, Fat, Slow, Non Sniping Russian Heavy as well as Artillery....        The Issue is Taking the Time to figure them Out, once you do that, theu're Easy Pickings....



I_Gutmensch_Deluxe_I #9 Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:04 AM

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View PostIf_I_Die_You_Die_Too, on 22 July 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

One word

LT432

 

EBRs can circle LT432... happened to me more than once...

tajj7 #10 Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:21 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 22 July 2019 - 09:27 AM, said:

When the advices are:

 

Don't like WV - stop playing.

Don't like arty - stop playing.

Don't like MM - stop playing.

Don't like OP tanks - stop playing. 

Don't like UP tanks - stop playing.

Don't like some maps - stop playing. 

And so on.

 

There is no wonder why players are leaving and actual constructive discussion are not to be seen on this forum.

 

Where is the constructive discussion in the OP's thread, its another person who is just whinging because they got outplayed by something and instead of learning how to play against this new threat they have decided to start a whinge thread declaring something is OP.

 

Let's look at what the OP actually wrote -

 

Block Quote

 They are ridiculously over powered

 

False claim and zero evidence provided to support it either.

 

Block Quote

 They are moving around like Mario carts in Nintendo and on top of that they manage to hit you at 90 km/h!!!

 

Gross exaggeration plus an anecdotal claim, again with zero evidence and zero argument to explain why this is actually a bad thing. Basically the OP makes a presumptive statement that no tank should ever hit a tank at high speed. 

 

Block Quote

 They are destroying the game

 

Personal opinion spoken as if it is a given and is already confirmed, again zero evidence or argument to support it.

 

Block Quote

 It is really frustrating when you put are you skills into the game and you are playing well and suddenly a flock of EBRs comes at you and in less than a minute its over!

 

Another exaggerated anecdotal example with zero evidence provided.  Also makes a claim about skills the person does not really have.

 

Block Quote

 There is no way these vehicles were that "dynamic" as you love to label them in reality. Take a look at real video/film footage, there is no way these tanks move around like they do in WoT.  

 

And finally the good old 'realism' argument, which is just nonsense for a game as arcade as WOTs is, but is literally the only argument the OP has put up at all.

 

The OP got the responses his post deserved, there is no 'constructive discussion' with someone who makes posts like that, and they advice given, to stop playing is probably the best answer anyone can really give because things like facts, evidence, reason, explanation are not going to change the wrong opinions of a closed mind. 

 

 



arthurwellsley #11 Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:27 AM

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1. Look up the OP Citynomad.

2. Notice that on his account he only has 165 tanks played.

3. Filter the OP by nation and look at his French tanks. He has played the AMX ELC bis (badly). He has played the AMX 12 t (badly). He has played the AMX 13 75 (his highest tier french light tank at tier VII) much better by his account standards.

4. OP has no experience of playing the Wheeled vehicles but decides he is equipped to comment on them ....

 

5. Looking at Tajj's reference curve

tier VI AMD Panhard 178B seems to pretty much follow the reference curve and thus one could conclude is well balanced.

tier VII Hotchkiss EBR slightly difficult to read the curve but seems to be a margin below the reference curve, which does not really surprise me having played it, it seemed quite awkard with the turret so far back.

tier VIII Panhard AML Lynx 6 x 6 is well below the reference curve, possibly due to the stock grind, or possibly as it is just not very good.

tier VIII Panhard EBR 75 the premium. Well above the reference curve, is this because it has no stock grind, it's only owned by better players, or it is slightly too buffed? Time will tell.

tier IX Panhard EBR 90 hard to read the graph but seems to be slightly below the reference line. I am still on the Lynx.

tier X Panhard EBR 105 cannot see it on the graph.



tajj7 #12 Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:32 AM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 22 July 2019 - 10:27 AM, said:

1. Look up the OP Citynomad.

2. Notice that on his account he only has 165 tanks played.

3. Filter the OP by nation and look at his French tanks. He has played the AMX ELC bis (badly). He has played the AMX 12 t (badly). He has played the AMX 13 75 (his highest tier french light tank at tier VII) much better by his account standards.

4. OP has no experience of playing the Wheeled vehicles but decides he is equipped to comment on them ....

 

5. Looking at Tajj's reference curve

tier VI AMD Panhard 178B seems to pretty much follow the reference curve and thus one could conclude is well balanced.

tier VII Hotchkiss EBR slightly difficult to read the curve but seems to be a margin below the reference curve, which does not really surprise me having played it, it seemed quite awkard with the turret so far back.

tier VIII Panhard AML Lynx 6 x 6 is well below the reference curve, possibly due to the stock grind, or possibly as it is just not very good.

tier VIII Panhard EBR 75 the premium. Well above the reference curve, is this because it has no stock grind, it's only owned by better players, or it is slightly too buffed? Time will tell.

tier IX Panhard EBR 90 hard to read the graph but seems to be slightly below the reference line. I am still on the Lynx.

tier X Panhard EBR 105 cannot see it on the graph.

 

The EBR 105 is the original green line, it's on, just above or just below the reference curve across most of the skill spectrum.

 

Based on the Even 90, which has a similar reference curve to the EBR 75, its probably premium status (i.e no stock grind, good crews, ability to afford more premium ammo usage) that pushes it above the reference line (i.e Cromwell to Cromwell B comparison) 



Homer_J #13 Posted 22 July 2019 - 12:12 PM

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View PostCitynomad, on 22 July 2019 - 09:33 AM, said:

Take a look at real video/film footage, there is no way these tanks move around like they do in WoT.  

 

I've seen a Tiger I on the move and it's nothing like it does in WoT.  Your point is?



spidre #14 Posted 22 July 2019 - 12:28 PM

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Find them really annoying so stopped playing tier 7 and above. Still get the odd one in tier 6 but find that the game is enjoyable and profitable. I was rubbish in the high tiers anyway. Spending much less too.

LordMuffin #15 Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:28 PM

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View Post4nt, on 22 July 2019 - 10:41 AM, said:

Thing is, OP is already on the way there. I merely take his whine into exaggerated conclusion. If OP is allowed to exaggerate, is it then surprising he might get some sarcastic answers? 

 

He doesn't seem to be willing to discuss. His mind is set and no amount of reasoning will change his mind about solution to his dilemma. He didn't ask for advice, merely rehashing same old complaint of WVs that has been around since their introduction, with same old arguments that boil down to 'I don't like them, so nerf them'.

 

Solutions have been presented in previous threads. Still he wished to open new thread, and initial post seem to indicate similiar expectations as those x OPs before him- pats on the back and wholesale acceptance of his opinion as the sole correct one. Now. I might be wrong, and next up he will ask for true advice, complete with replays where he has been stymied, but if previous threads are anything to go by, there will be insults against anyone who disagrees.

 

YMMV but I believe this thread was lost even before it began.

Maybe, but why post a nonsense and irrelevant post at all then.

 

Give up before even trying.

 

He might not be willing to discuss, but on the other hand, none of the responses actually opened up for a discussion at all, and was just as one-sided as the OP.

13:32 Added after 4 minutes

View Posttajj7, on 22 July 2019 - 11:21 AM, said:

 

Where is the constructive discussion in the OP's thread, its another person who is just whinging because they got outplayed by something and instead of learning how to play against this new threat they have decided to start a whinge thread declaring something is OP.

 

Let's look at what the OP actually wrote -

 

 

False claim and zero evidence provided to support it either.

 

 

Gross exaggeration plus an anecdotal claim, again with zero evidence and zero argument to explain why this is actually a bad thing. Basically the OP makes a presumptive statement that no tank should ever hit a tank at high speed. 

 

 

Personal opinion spoken as if it is a given and is already confirmed, again zero evidence or argument to support it.

 

 

Another exaggerated anecdotal example with zero evidence provided.  Also makes a claim about skills the person does not really have.

 

 

And finally the good old 'realism' argument, which is just nonsense for a game as arcade as WOTs is, but is literally the only argument the OP has put up at all.

 

The OP got the responses his post deserved, there is no 'constructive discussion' with someone who makes posts like that, and they advice given, to stop playing is probably the best answer anyone can really give because things like facts, evidence, reason, explanation are not going to change the wrong opinions of a closed mind. 

 

 

If there is no hope of constructive discussion, why do you respond at all?

 

Your post was just as useful as his OP when it comes to create a constructive discussion.



tajj7 #16 Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:37 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 22 July 2019 - 01:28 PM, said:

Maybe, but why post a nonsense and irrelevant post at all then.

 

Give up before even trying.

 

He might not be willing to discuss, but on the other hand, none of the responses actually opened up for a discussion at all, and was just as one-sided as the OP.

13:32 Added after 4 minutes

If there is no hope of constructive discussion, why do you respond at all?

 

Your post was just as useful as his OP when it comes to create a constructive discussion.

 

What you mean my post that actually has some evidence that counters his claim? That is far more useful and constructive than what the OP wrote. 

 

And I respond so that whinging nonsense is not left unchallenged and doesn't become some sort of echo chamber.  That is how people get led down internet black holes because outlandish claims and views are aired but never challenged or fact checked, often brainwashing people into thinking they are correct. 



IntruderFI #17 Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:40 PM

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I love it how the wheel tanks defenders rush to these topics instantly.

If you even try to deny how broken those tanks are, you either enjoy playing those kind of tanks or you are seriously delusional.

 

I see that same chart posted OVER AND OVER again but not a single time when i asked an other chart has that been provided.

 

Bring me the chart of non penetrating hits.

We all know what tanks rules this chart by a large margin.

 

Entire tank line is broken and if you are defending it... well... don't think we have anything to talk about.



tajj7 #18 Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:43 PM

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View PostIntruderFI, on 22 July 2019 - 01:40 PM, said:

I love it how the wheel tanks defenders rush to these topics instantly.

If you even try to deny how broken those tanks are, you either enjoy playing those kind of tanks or you are seriously delusional.

 

I see that same chart posted OVER AND OVER again but not a single time when i asked an other chart has that been provided.

 

Bring me the chart of non penetrating hits.

We all know what tanks rules this chart by a large margin.

 

Entire tank line is broken and if you are defending it... well... don't think we have anything to talk about.

 

@Muffin

 

This would be a good example of why I post in these topics, otherwise you get loads of anti-wheeled vehicle people like this, making claims, not showing any evidence, statistics, logic or argument all just chatting to themselves thinking they are correct just because they all agree with each other, creating some sort of delusional echo chamber. 

 

---------------------------

 

IntruderFI - number of games in wheeled vehicles -  0

 

No surprise there. 

 

Block Quote

 If you even try to deny how broken those tanks are, you either enjoy playing those kind of tanks or you are seriously delusional.

 

They are not broken, and I am none of those things, you are just wrong and you have shown NOTHING to even vaguely support your point.

 

If you want to claim that something is broken you need to bring more to the table than just your opinion (which is  heavily based on ignorance) and insults towards anyone that dares to challenge your opinion. 

 

Block Quote

 

I see that same chart posted OVER AND OVER again but not a single time when i asked an other chart has that been provided.

 

Bring me the chart of non penetrating hits. 

 

We all know what tanks rules this chart by a large margin.

 

 

No such 'chart' exists, in fact I am not not sure how such a thing would be plotted on a chart. In fact I am not aware of any data that supports this which makes nonsense of your -

 

'We all know what tanks rules this chart by a large margin'

 

But logically a tank with no armour would not lead the way in non-penetrating hits and it is a giant slice of nonsense pie to suggest that a paper vehicle, that people occasionally hit in the wheels, would bounce more than some of the most OP heavy tanks in the game. 

 

However, even if we were to assume your absurd claim was correct, considering as I have shown, the WVs are generally well balanced if not a little underpowered in some cases, then if they had such an ability to absorb so many shots as you claim (which they don't), then logically it could be seen by the FACT they are not overperforming, that they need to absorb the odd shot to actually be competitive and do their role. 

 

Block Quote

 Entire tank line is broken and if you are defending it... well... don't think we have anything to talk about.

 

We don't have anything to talk about because all you have done is have a little rant because you haven't played wheeled vehicles so therefore have an ignorance of them and clearly cannot handle playing against them, so instead of learning to play, you whinge on the forums about them but crucially provide no argument or evidence to support your outlandish claims. 


Edited by tajj7, 22 July 2019 - 02:57 PM.


7thSyndicate #19 Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:51 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 22 July 2019 - 01:43 PM, said:

 

@Muffin

 

This would be a good example of why I post in these topics, otherwise you get loads of anti-wheeled vehicles fanatics like this, making claims, not showing any evidence, statistics, logic or argument all just chatting to themselves thinking they are correct just because they all agree with each other, creating some sort of delusional echo chamber. 

 

 

Curious enough i see all the time the same guy in every single wheelchair topic on this forum: you. Evidence, what? you´re not showing anything with trash win rate charts. They´re not op, just out of place and broken.

OmniWalou #20 Posted 22 July 2019 - 03:01 PM

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View PostIntruderFI, on 22 July 2019 - 02:40 PM, said:

I see that same chart posted OVER AND OVER again but not a single time when i asked an other chart has that been provided.

Bring me the chart of non penetrating hits.

We all know what tanks rules this chart by a large margin.

 

Care to first tell us where to find such information?

Although. Non-penetrating hits would count as blocked damage. Quick check from Dakilzzors stats;

with the tier 10, in 676 battles he has blocked a total of 7767 damage

with the tier 8 prem, in 170 battles he has blocked a total of 1939 damage

So conclusion is that he mostly blocks one shot from some low caliber guns every 20-30 games with the tier 10 and every 15-20 games with the tier 8 prem.

 

If you're implying that they block or absorb shots with wheels, you are wrong. Those shots are just critical hits with no armor hit box behind them. Same as it is with tracked vehicles.

Satisfied?







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