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Please dont let Frontline game mode die!


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R3dBaron #1 Posted 22 July 2019 - 01:07 PM

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Hello all,

 

Two years ago Wargaming made the smart move of teaming up with Bongfish in order to create WoT's best game mode yet: Frontline.

 

 

When Frontline started was a huge success and almost everyone was enjoying it wildly.

 

But then, 3 things happened:

 

1. Having just 1 map available made the game mode becoming stale;

2. With the introduction of wheelies in unrestricted numbers all other tanks start to struggle to counter their wolfpacks;

3. The 2019 season requires a very long (almost 1 year) effort for not so great rewards.

 

Having played this 2019 FL season for almost 700 battles I can identify some worrying trends:

 

1. Less players using the game mode as the time goes by;

2. More players giving up at the start of the game when they are defending (unrestricted wheelies numbers favours the attackers);

3. Games lasting much less time due to the wheelies effect (destroying the fun for all other vehicles and nullifying the XP/credits farming).

 

So what can Wargaming do to save Frontline?

 

Here are my 2 cents:

 

1. Restrict the wheelies numbers per front (10 players) to 2 max as is done for SPG (1 per front);

2. Add some other prizes for every Prestige level (more tanks, camos, crew skins, etc);

3. Quickly introduce more maps, the 1 in production as fast as possible and 2 or 3 more in the near future.

 

The bottom line is that Frontline mode is what this game should be in the future so all the money invested now in it will bring huge revenues.

 

I congratulate WG for introducing in the near future new personal reserves to speed up FL XP gain by 100%, that is very positive.

 

Thanks and best regards.


Edited by R3dBaron, 22 July 2019 - 01:08 PM.


HundeWurst #2 Posted 22 July 2019 - 01:33 PM

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Wheelchairs are an issue, but so are a lot of other tanks, such as lt432, Progetto, and other premiums.

 

The map is not well balanced, what is quit ahrd to do however.

It is just one map.

Players are still learning the mode after hundreds of battles, most dont learn fast.

Wargaming turned everything into a grind of epic proportions...

 

Its a boring experience with plenty of flaws.

 

I pretty much guess everyone would have been alright without the premium tanks as rewards for grinding frontline.... Maybe prestiging 5 times of the year to get tier 9 reward tank would have been a good incentive to play.

But now its just an abomination nobody can really enjoy, because of the endless repetition.



Spurtung #3 Posted 22 July 2019 - 01:57 PM

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View PostHundeWurst, on 22 July 2019 - 12:33 PM, said:

Wheelchairs are an issue, but so are a lot of other tanks, such as lt432, Progetto, and other premiums.

 

The map is not well balanced, what is quit ahrd to do however.

It is just one map.

Players are still learning the mode after hundreds of battles, most dont learn fast.

Wargaming turned everything into a grind of epic proportions...

 

Its a boring experience with plenty of flaws.

 

I pretty much guess everyone would have been alright without the premium tanks as rewards for grinding frontline.... Maybe prestiging 5 times of the year to get tier 9 reward tank would have been a good incentive to play.

But now its just an abomination nobody can really enjoy, because of the endless repetition.

 

Yup, it's just a boring chore to do over and over. I'm glad I managed two resets on each of the first two episodes. There's no way I can do that crap for much longer, and the extra credits mean little to me. I'm in it for the tank rewards and reach lvl 30 on each episode as fast as possible and close that door for another month.

Ragoutrabbit #4 Posted 22 July 2019 - 01:58 PM

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The mode is garbage.

LordSkyFury #5 Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:07 PM

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For me frontline was fun when it was first introduced. It was new and games were mostly composed from tech tree tanks. When frontline come back after few battle it wasn't fun anymore. Spam of op premium tanks is terrible in this game mode.

Mimos_A #6 Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:08 PM

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I can live with the wheelies if they'd introduce more maps. I really just can't be bothered spending full-time job-like hours grinding a single map for some rewards. If the mode would be available all the time, sure, but like this where you just have to go crazy on the same flawed map over and over for an entire week every once in a while, screw that.

onderschepper #7 Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:12 PM

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The mode seems to have become a Playground/ Test Track for Premium Vehicles which serves as a deterrent for players who are solely interested in playing for giggles, while earning Credits and XP plus receiving free consumables along the way.

 

I feel genuinely sorry for one player I saw in a match whose only vehicle was a Rental T-44-FL (240,000 Silver), thus they were almost certainly a newer player who had decided to give the mode a try and ended up with 5 respawns with very little reward.

 

It also feels backwards to me that people are paying for numerous Premium Vehicles so they can earn Premium Vehicles, but this is the way gaming works nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



DeathMetalDivision #8 Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:17 PM

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I also think that more maps would help a lot, but those maps should give those (slow) heavies a little more advantage as the lights/mediums have now on this one.

 

The only thing i'm afraid of is that when the maps favors heavies that it will become a stalemate between defenders so there should be some balance. But that last word in combination with Wargaming makes me really afraid.



If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #9 Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:23 PM

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Beats eternal randoms... aaargh

 

The Honeymoon period is over for Frontline

People will play it less often now because they mix Frontline with randoms, it breaks the tedium of a single mode

 

Some days I'm mainly FL, other days I mainly only have time for quick randoms

 

You've got to budget an undisturbed 20 minutes for a FL game



SuperOlsson #10 Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:29 PM

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Sometimes when defending the spawns are so messed up, like why would I choose to spawn in a heavy if it takes 3+ minutes to get to the fight? For me when respawning because enemy is capping EBR or lt432 are the only viable options, spawn in IS-3 and the enemies have time to cap 2-4 times before you are able to shoot anything. Sometimes when an lt is being aggressive it might even push back defender spawns by like 500 meters. One should be able to choose more spawns as a defender, and it would be more fun.

dan_dix #11 Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:46 PM

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My 2 cents (I stopped playing frontline this season). There is little incentive left to play this mode:

- If you don't have the top fast premiums (progetto, lt-432, ebr, Skorpion) you end up cannon fodder most of the time

- If you don't have premium time and play regular tech tree tanks or even the "mediocre" premium tanks the XP and credit revenues are not that much better than randoms

- The prestige points grind is too heavy to reach significant rewards

- There are always other more interesting offers in randoms while Frontine is on

 

At the end of the day, despite all its flaws Random mode is more appealing due to variety and the length of time you have to commit to a battle

 

I would be more interested in Grand Battles at all high tiers than in Frontline ATM. You can do personal missions in GB much easier



If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #12 Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:47 PM

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More spawning choices would deffo help FL gameplay for heavies

 

 

13:50 Added after 2 minutes

I would be more interested in Grand Battles at all high tiers than in Frontline

 

I only played it twice and unticked it

 

The proper name for Grand Battles is Big Randoms

The proper name for randoms is Small Randoms

 

FL is a totally different game


Edited by If_I_Die_You_Die_Too, 22 July 2019 - 02:51 PM.


Spurtung #13 Posted 22 July 2019 - 03:26 PM

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View PostDeathMetalDivision, on 22 July 2019 - 01:17 PM, said:

I also think that more maps would help a lot, but those maps should give those (slow) heavies a little more advantage as the lights/mediums have now on this one.

 

So...corridors like we already got in 90% of random maps? Yay...



Ragoutrabbit #14 Posted 22 July 2019 - 03:33 PM

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If you don't have a top tier premium medium or light the mode is a waste of time, you'll make significant less or even lose credits if you try to play the objectives and if you play 90% of the normal tanks you're nothing more than XP pinata for the progetto and skorpion hordes.

If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #15 Posted 22 July 2019 - 03:40 PM

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It deffo suits premium tanks but a top tech tree tank can compete

 

The key to helping you survive is a high skills crew with BIA vents rammer bla bla bla

 

Then even an average player can participate

 

Just don't camp, or you'll get plastered

and watch out for those EBRs

 

Edit

Currently grinding out a decent T69 crew for the next episode of FL


Edited by If_I_Die_You_Die_Too, 22 July 2019 - 04:07 PM.


tajj7 #16 Posted 22 July 2019 - 03:56 PM

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The problem IMO is they made it so winning doesn't matter.

 

I used to play Battlefield a lot, 64 player epic domination and rush games where the game would last like 30 minutes and like ebb and flow, when I first started playing Frontline I got a little of that feeling.

 

Until you realise winning doesn't matter, in fact winning too quickly actually hampers you and they have basically turned the mode into a rush to get a reward tank, where you go through a set of motions to get general and then rinse and repeat on the same map.

 

I have no issue with WVs, IMO what they need to do is tone down engineering so capping takes much longer. 

 

And they need to make the mode not about the grind, the grind should be relatively easy, but it should be about winning and losing, make it it a little easier to defend, make it so the guns are more valuable. 

 

And it needs another map and more consumables/perks to spice it up more and make it less repetitive 



Spurtung #17 Posted 22 July 2019 - 03:59 PM

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Funny thing is that whenever I had a stock (or grinding) tier 8, FL is where I'd develop them.

 

Last year it was the Pantera going in completely stock and coming out with the Standard B unlocked, and so far this year it has been the Lynx and the UDES 14 Alt 5.



ValkyrionX #18 Posted 22 July 2019 - 04:20 PM

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currently the Fl mode presents structural problems not to be ignored.

 

the map is absolutely in favor of the attacking team,  the base B is absolutely indefensible , the base A can be complicated but it is easier to defend, same thing for the base C.
On the second line the base D is probably the most difficult to defend , the base E and the base F are quite defensible.
As far as objectives are concerned, I think they are all quite defensible and at the same time attackable.

Another huge problem that I find, especially playing in defense on the first two lines of defense of the bases, is that too often the tank is spawned really too far this is a really huge disadvantage in many situations, it gets worse by far defends specific objective in the final line of defense, when I have to choose one of the 3 spawn areas, the tank is positioned in a position that has nothing to do with the one indicated in the map and this translates into having to travel a long distance, this especially when the objective 1 , objective 2 and objective 5 must be defended, the tank is substantially positioned at the end of the map within the base 3-4, too far away, facilitating a lot the attackers.


Another problem, no less serious, are the premium tanks, especially Progetto46 and ebr75, these two vehicles are a real catastrophe for this mode, the project 46 is a tank obviously op even in the hands of a tomato , and the ebr75 is a real thorn in the side and frankly these two tank in particular have made, at least for what concerns my experience,  really boring FL mode to play.
All the other premium [and not] tanks and are obsolete and useless cause this two true monstrosities.

 

Definitely another problem that I found and that is true both in attack and in defense, is that often the extra time is stopped, thus concluding the game without this extra time being played leaving often with a bitter taste in the mouth.


Another problem, actually a proposal, would be to have other game modes on this map, not only attack and defense, it would also be interesting a domination mode and hunt for the flag as it was in Rampage mode many years ago.

 

..and above all we are still waiting for the new map for this modality, announced now months ago.



Jack_Sparroxx #19 Posted 22 July 2019 - 04:49 PM

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View PostR3dBaron, on 22 July 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

Hello all,

 

Two years ago Wargaming made the smart move of teaming up with Bongfish in order to create WoT's best game mode yet: Frontline.

 

When Frontline started was a huge success and almost everyone was enjoying it wildly.

 

But then, 3 things happened:

 

1. Having just 1 map available made the game mode becoming stale; Fair point, 1 map makes this mode borring after a couple of days

2. With the introduction of wheelies in unrestricted numbers all other tanks start to struggle to counter their wolfpacks; I dont have an issue with wheelies, the 95% of players are complete muppets in wheelies.

3. The 2019 season requires a very long (almost 1 year) effort for not so great rewards. The rewards for the sta-2 and WZ is actually not bad for a minimum effort spread over a year for a F2P player, The emil and the four legged yank grind, yea not so much fun for anyone. And I'm not going to bother

 

Having played this 2019 FL season for almost 700 battles I can identify some worrying trends:

 

1. Less players using the game mode as the time goes by;  How do you know? do you have access to server statistics that the rest of dont have? please share.

2. More players giving up at the start of the game when they are defending (unrestricted wheelies numbers favours the attackers);  Again blaming wheelies, and I'm starting to suspect you are watching a bit too much SirFoch streams and he is the one that coined the fraise and keeps on crying about them. And again how do you know, can you back up your claim with actual data?  S*** team will be S*** regardless if its random pup games or FL mode.  

3. Games lasting much less time due to the wheelies effect (destroying the fun for all other vehicles and nullifying the XP/credits farming). I dont think I have had a sub-20 minutes game so far. 

 

So what can Wargaming do to save Frontline?

 

Here are my 2 cents:

 

1. Restrict the wheelies numbers per front (10 players) to 2 max as is done for SPG (1 per front); Hell no, then you team is having to rely on you wheelie driver actually being good, how does that work again on malinovka and prokorovka in randoms? oh yea the team with the crap scout win chance dropped significantly.  

2. Add some other prizes for every Prestige level (more tanks, camos, crew skins, etc); For the most part I agree, dosnt have to be "gret" tanks, perhaps some of the lower tier stuff so 

3. Quickly introduce more maps, the 1 in production as fast as possible and 2 or 3 more in the near future. Agree 100%, only reason why I dont play FL more is because there is only 1 map, not because of wheelies, spagettos, 3A's. LT's  and other semi-OP prem tanks

 

The bottom line is that Frontline mode is what this game should be in the future so all the money invested now in it will bring huge revenues.

 

I congratulate WG for introducing in the near future new personal reserves to speed up FL XP gain by 100%, that is very positive.

 

Thanks and best regards.

 

Biggest problem with the current map is that is very difficult to defend B area and almost impossible to take C area. People either suicide yolo or press J to get to a different zone. And the repawn areas is just complete GARBO, if you need to defend you would take a well armored heavy that can take a beating inj the cap area, but WG apparently thinks that driving a slow 30km heavy 1000m from a defence respawn to the cap area is a good thing. THIS is in my mind the primary reason why so many drive lights. And its why I mostly drive lights and fast mediums, wasting 4-5 minutes driving around in a heavy trying to get where you are needed, is both BORRING as F*** and it also wrecks your teams chances to win, regardless of the side you spawn on.

 

Only zone area I spawn in with a heavy, is in the center city where I can get in the fight fast with a slow heavy.  Leave the spawn points where there are now for lights, move spawn point for heavies ALOT closer to the action. People play this game to shoot S*** up, not drive around the country side, 

 


Edited by Jack_Sparroxx, 22 July 2019 - 05:08 PM.


DeathMetalDivision #20 Posted 22 July 2019 - 05:05 PM

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View PostSpurtung, on 22 July 2019 - 03:26 PM, said:

 

So...corridors like we already got in 90% of random maps? Yay...

 

That's why i said balance it. Now heavies are totally irrelevant. As other people said already, sometimes zones are lost even before you get there. When you need to defend, you are swarmed and killed within seconds. But that's not the real problem. It's when you need to attack and drive another 3-4 minutes to the next zone and hope they didn't capped that 1 too before/when you arrive. Then you have a real fun game. Would almost drown myself like an arty so i can respawn in something usefull in that case.




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