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Let's talk about realism


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Bulldog_Drummond #1 Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:14 PM

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A point I want to make right away is that this post is not a whine or in anyway a criticism of the game.  With some minor reservations, I like it, which is why I have been playing it for 7 years.  What this is more aimed at is the poster who has a gripe about something he doesn't like and damns it on the basis that it is not "realistic".  So let's look at some of the not realistic aspects of the game that no one ever complains about, while they focus on some other piffling detail of what is after all an arcade game.

 

  • You can resurrect your crew from dead using your Magic Potion of Immortality.  Multiple times.
  • You can fix your broken tracks or gun from inside the tank. Instantly.
  • You have these amazing things called Hit Points so, unlike real life tanks, you can survive multiple pens.
  • You have this remarkable ability to see an entire battlefield.  Watch the excellent film 'Lebanon' for a more accurate take on what a tank commander can see buttoned up.
  • If you aim at something it usually hits.  This would be great news to WW2 tank commanders.
  • You have all these amazing blueprint tanks and features and upgrades on tanks all of which are pure fantasy.
  • Ramming works
  • Driving underwater works

 

I am sure that there are many other points that I have overlooked but, as I say, these never come into consideration when people are arguing about "realism".


Edited by Bulldog_Drummond, 22 July 2019 - 09:14 PM.


Spurtung #2 Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:23 PM

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Artillery's accuracy. 

Frostilicus #3 Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:25 PM

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A (sadly deceased) good friend of mine used to play this game - he was a Gunner in a Warrior APC during his time as a Guardsman in the British Army.

He said that any exercise in that involved driving a tank through a wooded area usually involved most of the external bits of the vehicle getting ripped off, and usually a track jammed up with gunge :)

 

No real surprise that during WW2 most tankers would set the demolition charges and start walking rather than attempt some of the repairs we can carry out every minute or so in game!


Edited by Frostilicus, 22 July 2019 - 09:26 PM.


7thSyndicate #4 Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:36 PM

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Game is not real? how come? damn, i need to lie down for a bit

Bulldog_Drummond #5 Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:40 PM

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View PostFrostilicus, on 22 July 2019 - 08:25 PM, said:

A (sadly deceased) good friend of mine used to play this game - he was a Gunner in a Warrior APC during his time as a Guardsman in the British Army.

He said that any exercise in that involved driving a tank through a wooded area usually involved most of the external bits of the vehicle getting ripped off, and usually a track jammed up with gunge :)

 

No real surprise that during WW2 most tankers would set the demolition charges and start walking rather than attempt some of the repairs we can carry out every minute or so in game!

 

I believe it was not uncommon in the Desert and Normandy to abandon tank immediately if a shot dinged you, for the next was certain to penetrate, and a crew was a lot more valuable than a tank.

24doom24 #6 Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:44 PM

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omfg just go play War Thunder already:facepalm:

Dorander #7 Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:47 PM

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Aw man, are you saying those people who draw arbitrary lines in the immense abstractions between utter fantasy and complete reality don't actually have any justifications but their own desires?

 

Cheers old chap. :great:



Bulldog_Drummond #8 Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:50 PM

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View PostSpurtung, on 22 July 2019 - 08:23 PM, said:

Artillery's accuracy. 

 

Arty is obviously ludicrous, but arguably no more so than 30 tanks of mixed nationalities and eras battling it out.

20:53 Added after 2 minutes

View PostDorander, on 22 July 2019 - 08:47 PM, said:

Aw man, are you saying those people who draw arbitrary lines in the immense abstractions between utter fantasy and complete reality don't actually have any justifications but their own desires?

 

Cheers old chap. :great:

 

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slitth #9 Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:09 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 22 July 2019 - 08:14 PM, said:

A point I want to make right away is that this post is not a whine or in anyway a criticism of the game.  With some minor reservations, I like it, which is why I have been playing it for 7 years.  What this is more aimed at is the poster who has a gripe about something he doesn't like and damns it on the basis that it is not "realistic".  So let's look at some of the not realistic aspects of the game that no one ever complains about, while they focus on some other piffling detail of what is after all an arcade game.

 

  • You can resurrect your crew from dead using your Magic Potion of Immortality.  Multiple times.
  • You can fix your broken tracks or gun from inside the tank. Instantly.
  • You have these amazing things called Hit Points so, unlike real life tanks, you can survive multiple pens.
  • You have this remarkable ability to see an entire battlefield.  Watch the excellent film 'Lebanon' for a more accurate take on what a tank commander can see buttoned up.
  • If you aim at something it usually hits.  This would be great news to WW2 tank commanders.
  • You have all these amazing blueprint tanks and features and upgrades on tanks all of which are pure fantasy.
  • Ramming works
  • Driving underwater works

 

I am sure that there are many other points that I have overlooked but, as I say, these never come into consideration when people are arguing about "realism".

 

Seeing around corners and over houses is also a cool trick for a tank.

and that glowing siluet can't be good for the crew.

 

But I still can't figure out how the got the incorporeal gun-barrels to work.

 



Element6 #10 Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:14 PM

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Humans undoubtedly have more than 5 senses, but a sense to tell us when someone has seen us is something that I believe belongs in the realm of unrealistic. 

Edited by Element6, 22 July 2019 - 10:14 PM.


onderschepper #11 Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:15 PM

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Realism is a fine line in games with many falling prey to the censor's hammer over the years for their portrayals being too accurate, though they were historically accurate - for example World at War was banned in Japan due to its portrayal of violence against Japanese soldiers during the War in the Pacific.

 

Likewise studios have to balance entertainment against realism, considering what players would enjoy doing repeatedly versus what would become a tedium and thus deter players from the game.

 

Full Spectrum Warrior was heavily based in reality and developed in partnership with the US Military to provide players with a true to life experience of commanding a squad of soldiers, with no ability to run & gun themselves and instead relying on their team to execute orders to kill, move etc. This game received mediocre sales and reviews, sliding into obscurity in the years since its launch.

 

All of that being said, one way or another players are going to complain. :)



_6i6_ #12 Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:22 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 22 July 2019 - 10:14 PM, said:

A point I want to make right away is that this post is not a whine or in anyway a criticism of the game.  With some minor reservations, I like it, which is why I have been playing it for 7 years.  What this is more aimed at is the poster who has a gripe about something he doesn't like and damns it on the basis that it is not "realistic".  So let's look at some of the not realistic aspects of the game that no one ever complains about, while they focus on some other piffling detail of what is after all an arcade game.

 

  • You can resurrect your crew from dead using your Magic Potion of Immortality.  Multiple times.
  • You can fix your broken tracks or gun from inside the tank. Instantly.
  • You have these amazing things called Hit Points so, unlike real life tanks, you can survive multiple pens.
  • You have this remarkable ability to see an entire battlefield.  Watch the excellent film 'Lebanon' for a more accurate take on what a tank commander can see buttoned up.
  • If you aim at something it usually hits.  This would be great news to WW2 tank commanders.
  • You have all these amazing blueprint tanks and features and upgrades on tanks all of which are pure fantasy.
  • Ramming works
  • Driving underwater works

 

I am sure that there are many other points that I have overlooked but, as I say, these never come into consideration when people are arguing about "realism".

 

you forgot the newest addition of realism in the game...the dragster tanks aka EBR's

 

in any case...it is a game - it was never actually promoted as a tank sim so they can do pretty much what they want, can;t they?



Bulldog_Drummond #13 Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:40 PM

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View Post_6i6_, on 22 July 2019 - 09:22 PM, said:

 

you forgot the newest addition of realism in the game...the dragster tanks aka EBR's

 

in any case...it is a game - it was never actually promoted as a tank sim so they can do pretty much what they want, can;t they?

 

Precisely the point I was hoping to make.

 

I doubt that anyone sane would want to play a realistic WW2 era tank sim, which in most cases would be along the lines of:

 

"Can you see anything, Sergeant?"

"No Sir"

KABOOM

Vehicle explodes

 

 



ThinGun #14 Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:53 PM

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I think it's hysterical that people believe that this game is realistic.  Something like 60% of the vehicles never saw action, and yet people whinge about 'innacurate camo'.  Vehicles drive through walls and trees that would stop a real tank dead, and yet they moan about bouncing shells.  

 

The relationship that WoT has with real armoured warfare is the same that Pong has with tennis.



WindSplitter1 #15 Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:55 PM

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View Postonderschepper, on 22 July 2019 - 09:15 PM, said:

 

Full Spectrum Warrior was heavily based in reality and developed in partnership with the US Military to provide players with a true to life experience of commanding a squad of soldiers, with no ability to run & gun themselves and instead relying on their team to execute orders to kill, move etc. This game received mediocre sales and reviews, sliding into obscurity in the years since its launch.

 

This is because players simply can't bother themselves with overly complex controls. Realism is simply too toxic for the player.

 

There was this Combat Flight Sim that took you 15 minutes just for the pre-flight check.

BMS Falcon, another CFS, has a fully clickable cockpit. Good luck learning the controls of an F-16

LOMAC (along with its DCS Universe), takes you ages to reach the objective... then you're shotdown by a random missile

Il-2 Sturmovik 1946, 7 minutes of flying (more if you join a full real server) followed by 7 seconds of utter helplessness got me out of there after being pretty much a veteran map builder.

 

In short. People want "quick in getting into action", which most MMOs excel at. WoT is no exception for this rule - quite the opposite. While CD/DVD games often don't have a solid community to offer, much less in the case of simulators = no reason to get those as they barely have any online play, mind a few exceptions.



4nt #16 Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:03 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 22 July 2019 - 10:40 PM, said:

 

Precisely the point I was hoping to make.

 

I doubt that anyone sane would want to play a realistic WW2 era tank sim, which in most cases would be along the lines of:

 

"Can you see anything, Sergeant?"

"No Sir"

KABOOM

Vehicle explodes

 

 

For that authentic feeling there is that another game.



unhappy_bunny #17 Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:14 PM

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View PostThinGun, on 22 July 2019 - 09:53 PM, said:

I think it's hysterical that people believe that this game is realistic.  Something like 60% of the vehicles never saw action, and yet people whinge about 'innacurate camo'.  Vehicles drive through walls and trees that would stop a real tank dead, and yet they moan about bouncing shells.  

 

The relationship that WoT has with real armoured warfare is the same that Pong has with tennis.

 

I thought Pong was used by all tennis pros as a training aid, and was part of the qualification tournament for Wimbledon. Another illusion shattered by the demon that is reality.

onderschepper #18 Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:41 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 22 July 2019 - 10:55 PM, said:

 

This is because players simply can't bother themselves with overly complex controls. Realism is simply too toxic for the player.

 

There was this Combat Flight Sim that took you 15 minutes just for the pre-flight check.

BMS Falcon, another CFS, has a fully clickable cockpit. Good luck learning the controls of an F-16

LOMAC (along with its DCS Universe), takes you ages to reach the objective... then you're shotdown by a random missile

Il-2 Sturmovik 1946, 7 minutes of flying (more if you join a full real server) followed by 7 seconds of utter helplessness got me out of there after being pretty much a veteran map builder.

 

In short. People want "quick in getting into action", which most MMOs excel at. WoT is no exception for this rule - quite the opposite. While CD/DVD games often don't have a solid community to offer, much less in the case of simulators = no reason to get those as they barely have any online play, mind a few exceptions.

 

The only realistic MMOs I know of are Medieval themed, which is probably the easiest genre in which to remain realistic.

 

Quite notably they are mostly of the Buy to Play Model, with a few exceptions.



Leepants #19 Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:46 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 22 July 2019 - 09:40 PM, said:

 

Precisely the point I was hoping to make.

 

I doubt that anyone sane would want to play a realistic WW2 era tank sim, which in most cases would be along the lines of:

 

"Can you see anything, Sergeant?"

"No Sir"

KABOOM

Vehicle explodes

 

 

 

There is one! Although not just t0nkz. Infantry too. And no, I can't remember the damn name........ Tis an odd name, IIRC..... At least one of WoT / WoWS YouTubers plays it occasionally...

AvengerOrion #20 Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:51 PM

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View PostLeepants, on 22 July 2019 - 11:46 PM, said:

 

There is one! Although not just t0nkz. Infantry too. And no, I can't remember the damn name........ Tis an odd name, IIRC..... At least one of WoT / WoWS YouTubers plays it occasionally...

 

By any chance you mean Red Orchestra?




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