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Suggest me a Heavy tank please


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Poll: Which Tank would you pick to bounce shots and holding flanks? No hulldown ! (37 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

Which tank line would you grind for this purpose?

  1. E75 / E100 (7 votes [11.48%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.48%

  2. Maus (16 votes [26.23%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 26.23%

  3. obj.705A (12 votes [19.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.67%

  4. AMX M4 51 (4 votes [6.56%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.56%

  5. M103 / E5 (1 vote [1.64%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.64%

  6. S.Conqueror (21 votes [34.43%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 34.43%

I would chose a TD instead

  1. T95 / E3 (22 votes [59.46%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 59.46%

  2. Tortoise / Badger (5 votes [13.51%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.51%

  3. Jg.Pz.E100 (10 votes [27.03%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 27.03%

You are going to regret chosing a tank only for the armor and bounce capacity

  1. Then chose what you like, you gonna regret it anyway (10 votes [21.28%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 21.28%

  2. Is better to chose a Hulldown tank and adapt to maps (19 votes [40.43%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.43%

  3. Pick the faster one ! (8 votes [17.02%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 17.02%

  4. Pick the Boomstick ! (10 votes [21.28%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 21.28%

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Furibiondo #1 Posted 23 July 2019 - 09:57 AM

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Hello, since today i mostly played mediums and lights beacouse i felt i had more impact to the game.
But now i want to try a "real" heavy tank, a tank that can bounce a lot of shots if angled properly.
I have the obj.257 that can bounce, but the LFP is paper and i can't bounce anything if i'm not hulldown, so i want to bounce also with all the tank exposed !
I really liked the american M4 medium, if that thing is angled, is VERY hard to penetrate.

So in the end, i need a tank that can bounce shots also if not "hidden", and that is a bit mobile.....i think the Maus and Type5 are too slow for me, so i was thinking about the E100 with 30kph top speed.

Thank you !!!
 

Edited by Furibiondo, 23 July 2019 - 03:42 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #2 Posted 23 July 2019 - 10:11 AM

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The French tier 9 heavy AMX M4 mle. 51.



Furibiondo #3 Posted 23 July 2019 - 10:52 AM

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250-260 mm of armor doesn't seem enough to bounce shots from tier X, am i wrong ?

Cobra6 #4 Posted 23 July 2019 - 10:57 AM

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Anything Russian basically, the armour of the Maus but medium tank mobility :D

 

If you want to actually learn angling, go down the German HT line but be warned, angling is a must in this line or you might as well have no armour.

 

Cobra 6



FluffyRedFox #5 Posted 23 July 2019 - 10:57 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 23 July 2019 - 09:11 AM, said:

The French tier 9 heavy AMX M4 mle. 51.

Not a tank for armour angling with those cheeks, and you can't point the tank dead on due to the weak lower plate. Plus the upper plate is 50/50 to same tier standard anyway so the armour on that is pretty frustrating. That and he'd need to grind through the 65t :D

 

@OP, you won't really get that good consistent frontal armour profile with mobility as most non super-heavies get a pretty weak lower plate. IS-4 does come to mind though, it has imo the best hull armour scheme in game as you can angle the tank to a great extent thanks to the amazing side armour and highly sloped cheek plates. But its tier X, so you will get gold-spammed and its got an awful gun that massively hinders the tank to the point where its one of the worst tier X heavies. Plus it requires going through the ST-I, which is mediocre as the gun is just as poor with less effective armour, and the KV-4 which is dreadful (sorry Urquan!). 

 

Pz VII also comes to mind as its somewhat mobile (33km/h) and has a 255mm lower plate so you will bounce stuff from your whole front although its about 50/50 pen for most stuff you'll face. However, it has holes in the mantlet (like you can get penned by tier 8s if they hit the right spots), really prone to gold spam as that lower plate is very flat, and you can't safely angle it thanks to the hull bulge around the turret. 

 

705A line might also be worth a look as they can be situationally invulnerable if you sidescrape properly while having similar mobility to the IS-4, with the tier X being the most mobile superheavy. Their lower plates are fairly weak but are strong enough that they can troll if angled, but nothing reliable.

 

 

 



Karasu_Hidesuke #6 Posted 23 July 2019 - 11:00 AM

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Remember, angling works very differently on different tanks. The clearest differences are between Soviet style pike noses and flat fronts. However, the Soviet heavies still have issues with those LFP's too. You can also side strafe which is extremely effective with some tanks.

 

Bottom line, don't place too much trust in your armor even if you got a heavy tank.



Tilly042 #7 Posted 23 July 2019 - 11:01 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 23 July 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

Anything Russian basically, the armour of the Maus but medium tank mobility :D

 

If you want to actually learn angling, go down the German HT line but be warned, angling is a must in this line or you might as well have no armour.

 

Cobra 6

 

Exactly as Cobra 6 said.  Anything Russian.

NekoPuffer_PPP #8 Posted 23 July 2019 - 11:02 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 23 July 2019 - 11:11 AM, said:

The French tier 9 heavy AMX M4 mle. 51.

 

 

@OP I'll be honest, a properly angled, fully upgraded IS-M is quite a potent bouncer, and is more mobile than traditional superheavy tanks.

 

If you want impenetrable hull-down heavies, take a look at the Swedish heavy tanks.

 

Polish heavy tanks are also quite strong (tier 9 & 10), if you hide the lower plate.



r00barb #9 Posted 23 July 2019 - 11:02 AM

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Keep doing your missions until you get an Object 279 (e).

XxKuzkina_MatxX #10 Posted 23 July 2019 - 11:06 AM

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View PostFuribiondo, on 23 July 2019 - 01:52 PM, said:

250-260 mm of armor doesn't seem enough to bounce shots from tier X, am i wrong ?

 

 

The above shows the tank perfectly level on flat ground angled by 10° only.

 

  • Upper plate is ~312mm effective.
  • Hull near cheek is 277mm effective.
  • That strip between the upper and the lower plates is 268mm effective.
  • Lower plate is 251mm effective.

 

Very few tanks will offer immunity from tier 10 gold rounds and especially tier 10 TDs, they're meant to do damage but as you can see the armor profile is still very effective.

10:12 Added after 5 minutes

View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 23 July 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

@OP I'll be honest, a properly angled, fully upgraded IS-M is quite a potent bouncer, and is more mobile than traditional superheavy tanks.

 

If you want impenetrable hull-down heavies, take a look at the Swedish heavy tanks.

 

Polish heavy tanks are also quite strong (tier 9 & 10), if you hide the lower plate.

 

Obviously you're underestimating the tank's performance. It's one of the better tier 9 heavies with the best overall win rate of all tier 9 heavies at 53.42%!

 

Spoiler

 


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 23 July 2019 - 11:38 AM.


Cobra6 #11 Posted 23 July 2019 - 11:16 AM

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Problem with the French heavies is that the sides can get overmatched on quite a lot of them, so they are not very good for angling.

 

Cobra 6



MeetriX #12 Posted 23 July 2019 - 11:27 AM

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430U. It's not a heavy, but it bounce a lot when angled properly (Like you could angle it wrong somehow :teethhappy: ;).

Furibiondo #13 Posted 23 July 2019 - 11:34 AM

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Thank you all for the answers, the 430U has a too weak LFP (that's the problem with all the russians but the 705).
That french looks doable, but it's like if you overangle by 1 or 2 degree you get easily penned on the side parts between the front and the side.
The panzer 7 has the same problem as the french, 

So for now the best looks to be the 705.....what about the E100? noone mentioned it :popcorn:

TungstenHitman #14 Posted 23 July 2019 - 11:40 AM

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Any of the Object something something... they're pretty much all good.

XxKuzkina_MatxX #15 Posted 23 July 2019 - 11:48 AM

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View PostFuribiondo, on 23 July 2019 - 02:34 PM, said:

Thank you all for the answers, the 430U has a too weak LFP (that's the problem with all the russians but the 705).
That french looks doable, but it's like if you overangle by 1 or 2 degree you get easily penned on the side parts between the front and the side.
The panzer 7 has the same problem as the french, 

So for now the best looks to be the 705.....what about the E100? noone mentioned it :popcorn:

 

The 705 comes 2nd in performance among tier 9 heavies after the AMX. It also has a rear mounted turret and 5° of gun depression which makes it a little situational. Tanks with rear mounted turrets struggle on maps with uneven terrain.

 

It's also a low profile tank, tanks which are taller than you can sometimes shoot down on your upper plate and penetrate because it loses some of its angling. A taller tank will also get a better shot at your hull roof which is 40mm thick (overmatched by 122mm guns and above).

 

 


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 23 July 2019 - 11:54 AM.


samuelx43a #16 Posted 23 July 2019 - 11:54 AM

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I'm probably sounding like a E75-aboo at this point, sorry!

 

in all seriousness, this tank rewards angling, and it works quite well due to the quick hull turn it has.

 

Another tank that is also extremely good at angling is a Dinger favourite, the KV-4. I have not played this, but I know for a fact that penning one you have to know where to hit, because that combines the per usual thick russian tracks with thick side armour. combine this with angling the turret so that your cheeks are not facing, and you have yourself a hard target.

 

if you want a strong turret, there are a couple contenders. One of the best turrets in game belongs to the T32, but sadly this tank has been left to obscurity and needs some buffs to bring it back into the light(I remember this being one of the suggestions for TBs, back with IS-3s, 50 100s FCM 50ts, man how things have changed...)

other than that just go with the russians, their rets are often a no no to fire at. Except maybe the early IS series, but that is about as worse as it can get(and the IS-m stock turret)



FluffyRedFox #17 Posted 23 July 2019 - 12:20 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 23 July 2019 - 10:06 AM, said:

 

 

The above shows the tank perfectly level on flat ground angled by 10° only.

 

  • Upper plate is ~312mm effective.
  • Hull near cheek is 277mm effective.
  • That strip between the upper and the lower plates is 268mm effective.
  • Lower plate is 251mm effective.

Except you're looking at the tank at facehug distance and the lower plate is only about 220mm effective in that.

Spoiler

Seriously, don't angle the 51. It doesn't work.

 

Block Quote

 Obviously you're underestimating the tank's performance. It's one of the better tier 9 heavies with the best overall win rate of all tier 9 heavies at 53.42%!

 >no stock grind

 >less played line due to underwelming tier X and the need to grind through a mediocre line (also 65t pogchamp)

It would have a good winrate regardless of these, but the global winrate nonetheless is inflated.

I'd recommend playing the tank for yourself and you'd be able to understand that its not really a tank that you can just look at the stats of and understand. It is quite the finicky tank and there's no "just do this and you'd be fine!"

 

View PostFuribiondo, on 23 July 2019 - 10:34 AM, said:

That french looks doable, but it's like if you overangle by 1 or 2 degree you get easily penned on the side parts between the front and the side.

Pretty much, its just not worth the risk at all of angling, you don't gain much from it anyway. 



Bora_BOOM #18 Posted 23 July 2019 - 12:27 PM

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View Postsamuelx43a, on 23 July 2019 - 10:54 AM, said:

I'm probably sounding like a E75-aboo at this point, sorry!

 

.....

 

I just wanted to suggest E75 but you beat me to it. It is a rather underestimated and not so often played tank.

 

For OP:

The image below is it being shot by 246 pen AP round (its own tier X gun). The turret is 253mm straight, the rest of the orange is sub 30% pen chance, the red is 20%-ish. So yeah, it is fine. But have in mind gold - it is going to hurt you, the whole hull front turns into 50:50 chance and the turret front in cheese. The side still bounces tho. Anyhow, you cant expect to be blocking/bouncing 300+ pen in any tier 9 tank reliably.

 


Edited by Bora_BOOM, 23 July 2019 - 12:32 PM.


kaneloon #19 Posted 23 July 2019 - 12:29 PM

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I don't know if a 705 is a good idea for a first heavy tank. Rear turret is a bit weird - it made me stop at the IS-M.

 

Imo you could like the 3 other soviet heavies : 277, IS7 or IS4.

The polish one seems pretty tanky too.



Slyspy #20 Posted 23 July 2019 - 12:38 PM

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One of the rules of WoT is that all tanks have superior armour until you get that tank yourself, whereupon it turns out ot be made of cheese. 




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