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Research Light Tanks to Tier 10 or Not?


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Rexxter #1 Posted 24 July 2019 - 11:12 AM

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I used to play all the types of tank in WoTs but now only really play Light Tanks

 

I have the American, Russian and German LTs to Tier 9 now and they are just a dream to play.     But I have a question.  In a recent Quickybaby video he said how disappointing the Tier 10 LTs were.   So would I be wise to stop at Tier 9?   Or should I carry on to Tier 10?

 

 



Ceeb #2 Posted 24 July 2019 - 11:15 AM

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Unless its the EBR, i dont see the point.

XxKuzkina_MatxX #3 Posted 24 July 2019 - 11:18 AM

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Tier 9 is the sweet spot for a lot of lights.

smokeytheband1t #4 Posted 24 July 2019 - 11:37 AM

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I'm not not an amazing player by any stretch of the imagination .. but the T100-LT is giving me a bad time atm .. not sure what to do with the damn thing scouting doesn't seem to work very well in the current meta but chances are i'm doing a classic "You're doing it wrong" 

r00barb #5 Posted 24 July 2019 - 11:51 AM

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Lots of reviews are negative about top tier lights but you won't know if they suit you until you try them for yourself. If you're enjoying playing your tier 9 lights, sooner or later you're going to accrue enough xp and credits to get a tier 10. Get one and if you enjoy it, all's good. If not, sell the tank to recover some credits and all you've lost is a little time in exchange for knowing the answer to your question.

Negativvv #6 Posted 24 July 2019 - 11:56 AM

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I've stopped at T9 too.

 

When T10 Meds either have 500m view range or effective armour and speed I don't see the point on paper of going to T10.

 

I'm currently enjoying the T-54 Lwt but it's accuracy can be infuriating...

 



pecopad #7 Posted 24 July 2019 - 12:03 PM

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Only the EBR, all the others are under perfoming, except maybe the T49 with the Derp

Edited by pecopad, 24 July 2019 - 12:04 PM.


Shacou #8 Posted 24 July 2019 - 12:33 PM

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Sheridan for medium/light hybrid, T100 for gunhandling and scouting, AMX 105 for opportunist gameplay, RHM and WZ are just trash.

arthurwellsley #9 Posted 24 July 2019 - 12:44 PM

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I have the T-100 but kept the T54 ltwt. Can confirm that the tier IX is more fun.

I have the AMX 13 105 and kept the AMX 13 90. Neither of them are particularly good in tier, although in a sort of perverse way I quite like them.

Germany I am only on the tier IX and it's not very good.

China I am on the tier IX and it's not very good.

WH - I am at the tier VIII Lynx 6x6 and it is deeply underwhelming to play. Bear in mind I have a girl crew in it with 100% recon, situational awareness, and BIA. With coated optics and crew perks the view range is 368 metres, which makes it lacklustre in it's role.

USA still on the tier IX, using the small gun is better for grinding, although the derp gun gives more lols.

 

 

 

My overall conclusion is that the nerfs that all the light tanks took when the tier X were introduced were over cooked. Thus the tier IX and X light tanks are just not competitive compared to the view range on most medium and some heavy tanks in those tiers. The gun handling on all of them got nerfed hard, and the shell velocity fall off and penetration over distance makes them all very weak compared to a medium of the same tier. Why bother playing a tier IX or X light tank when you are effectively handicapping the team as a medium could probably do a better job of the task that lights were designed for?

For most lights tiers VII and  maybe for a few VIII are the sweet spot.


Edited by arthurwellsley, 25 July 2019 - 08:21 AM.


Negativvv #10 Posted 24 July 2019 - 12:54 PM

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Is the T49 derp actually effective or is it just an occasional troll weapon?

Rati_Festa #11 Posted 24 July 2019 - 12:56 PM

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T-100 is very useful for the spotting missions. I have played 700 battles in the T-100, I really focus on spotting early and most of mid game only taking shots that I know have a good chance of penning and don't expose me to a hail of return fire. I basically play very cowardly :) hit and run, joining 1 v1's etc etc. 

 

The only alternative looks to be the EBR105, the rest don't appear to be anywhere near as useful as the RU tank.



Cobra6 #12 Posted 24 July 2019 - 01:04 PM

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T-100LT is used in competitive modes and it's the best all-round LT.

AMX 13 105 is nice because of the autoloader.

 

Rest is not worth it atm.

Sheridan is worse then the T49 as the 152mm on T9 (seeing T7) is more fun then on T10 (seeing T8).

WZ looks fun but the gun seems potato.

RhmPzW is garbage allround, a sniping light tank that can't snipe because of terrible penetration drop-off.

 

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Edited by Cobra6, 24 July 2019 - 01:05 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #13 Posted 24 July 2019 - 01:13 PM

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View PostNegativvv, on 24 July 2019 - 03:54 PM, said:

Is the T49 derp actually effective or is it just an occasional troll weapon?

 

Nope, it's a meme gun. Good for derping other lights and lightly armored tanks.

 

The 90mm is way better with awesome DPM (2500 base) and very good gun handling. It's an effective pseudo medium with that gun.



vasilinhorulezz #14 Posted 24 July 2019 - 01:42 PM

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Tier VIII and X lights scale is: Very bad to Mediocre at best.

Tier IX I could say, the T49 with the 90mm was pretty fun and WZ 132A was somewhat good (still way better than the awful WZ 132-1).

View range is mediocre, the guns are awful (tier 8 HP, tier 8.5 guns, tier 7 dpm, aim for days and miss because 4.0 dispersion, try to shoot on the move, yea good luck with that, camo is bad (Yes, I said that, Ruski medium 430U has better camo than the Sheridan), ohh, I forgot to mention the bad penetration and worst penetration drop over distance of all classes.

But yea, let's introduce some blueprint wheelies with these out of this world mechanics.

Congratulations WG, you took the most fun class in the game, and managed to make it completely useless and unfun :medal::facepalm:.



tajj7 #15 Posted 24 July 2019 - 01:53 PM

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T-100 lt is the best of them (along with EBR), gets used in some CW games and as others above said it's useful to have a tier 10 light to do missions (more HP around, access to Grand Battles etc.) 

TungstenHitman #16 Posted 24 July 2019 - 02:27 PM

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They're not bad tanks at all, they're good tanks. Problem is, with some points already mentioned in the comments

 

1.  Almost every med/td/heavy at tier10 has full view range, many even without optics.

 

2. Many meds/tds also have excellent camo.

 

3. Many meds/tds/heavies have excellent speed and mobility.

 

4. Small + unsuitable maps

 

So when you put all that together, the light tank has been effectively made redundant, it simply has no role that at least half a dozen or more other tanks on both teams can't do almost as well and all you're left with is a reasonably mobile zero/weak armor tank with a weak gun compared to other classes and the lowest hp pool in the battlefield. 

 


Edited by TungstenHitman, 24 July 2019 - 02:28 PM.


Cobra6 #17 Posted 24 July 2019 - 03:01 PM

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View PostNegativvv, on 24 July 2019 - 11:54 AM, said:

Is the T49 derp actually effective or is it just an occasional troll weapon?

 

Well, if you mount the 152mm your role changes basically.

 

With the 152mm you are a damage dealer to heavy armor and anything your team will have trouble damaging (heavies, hull-down mediums, casemate TD's etc.) and you should focus on that where possible.

Additionally you have the view range to spot not only your own targets but also for your team.

 

When you mount the 90mm, you can go light tank hunting and play a more classic LT role.

 

Basically the choice is whether you want to actively contribute to the battle (152mm) or passively (90mm). Now I'm not saying you can not contribute actively with the 90mm, like any light tank you can still do that, but it's not compulsory to do damage like with the 152mm.

 

Basically with the 152mm, this video explains the most efficient playstyle:

 

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tajj7 #18 Posted 24 July 2019 - 03:09 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 24 July 2019 - 01:27 PM, said:

They're not bad tanks at all, they're good tanks. Problem is, with some points already mentioned in the comments

 

1.  Almost every med/td/heavy at tier10 has full view range, many even without optics.

 

2. Many meds/tds also have excellent camo.

 

3. Many meds/tds/heavies have excellent speed and mobility.

 

4. Small + unsuitable maps

 

So when you put all that together, the light tank has been effectively made redundant, it simply has no role that at least half a dozen or more other tanks on both teams can't do almost as well and all you're left with is a reasonably mobile zero/weak armor tank with a weak gun compared to other classes and the lowest hp pool in the battlefield. 

 

 

No they are pretty bad, even for accounting all those things, common issues the light tanks have are -

 

- Bad DPM,

Aside the Sheridan they all have around 2.2k to 2.3k DPM for 300/320/390 alpha guns, yet even like an E100 has that much DPM even though its has 750 alpha and 2700 HP. It makes no sense that some of the lowest alpha guns on tier, on tanks that have no armour and no HP, have DPM lagging behind most heavies and way behind the meds. 

 

Really their DPM should be more in the base 2.7k to 3k range, in some cases higher than some meds if they have lower alpha, especially considering their HP pools.

 

(DPM across all tiers for light tanks is really bad for some reason since the rebalance, but really if they have similar or smaller guns than same tier meds there is no reason they shouldn't match them for DPM) 

 

The only light tanks in the game that have good DPM compared to their tiers, are many of the tier 8 premium lights, with the LT-432, M41D, HWK-30, M41 GF, all having about 2.1 to 2.3k DPM which is up there with the meds with the best DPM on tier 8. 

 

- Bad pen coupled with terrible penetration drop off,

Fine they are light tanks you don't expect the best penetration but the most effective light tanks on other tiers are like tier 8 premiums (432, HWK-30), like the T71, like the 13-57, Type 64, etc. their penetration is probably more in line with 'below average' medium penetration of their tiers. (For example there are two, soon to be 3 tier 7 lights that have higher pen than many tier 7 mediums) 

 

Well for tier 10 mediums, the worst 10 medium penetration is 248mm APCR pen on the TVP and 30B, but none of the lights reach that at tier 10, most of them have more like 230-235 APCR pen, aside the WZ-131-1 which has 246mm, AND this is then further crippled by horrible penetration drop off where these guns dip to below 200mm at 500m.  So their standard pen is just unnecessarily bad and crippled further pen drop off.  It should easily be more in the 240 - 250 range and without the uneeded harsh pen drop off.

 

- View Range

You say med and heavies have good view range, and they do, BUT on sandbox the tier 10 lights had even better view range, IIRC the Rhm and Sheridan had 440 base view range, the WZ had 420 or 430 and the T-100 and 13-105 I think had 410m or 415m.  

 

I see no reason why those figures couldn't come back, basically buff all their view ranges by 20m - 25m, it would mean an Rhm, would be approaching 490m view range just with optics and could be hitting like 530-540m on the move. 

 

Then the lights would have a clear view range advantage over same tier meds and heavies, to go with their mobility can camo. 

 

- Accuracy,

For some strange reason the lights got crippled with poor accuracy because WG have this fear of decently camoed tanks firing unspotted at long ranges against targets. Leaving aside TDs designed specifically to do this and would do this way better than any 320 alpha or 390 alpha light ever would (i.e Strv 103B), you still have the fact that a UDES 15/16 or Obj. 140 with like 19% base camo or 16% base camo can have 0.34 accuracy on guns with decent penetration and far less pen drop off at range. 

 

Yet,a WZ-132-1 with probably 20-30% worse penetration, 20-30% worse DPM and similar base camo, gets 0.40 accuracy. 

 

So you can sit long range, in your decently camoed meds and TDs, that have higher pen and still have decent accuracy, but not in your lights, because reasons.

 

Even though they are the most lightly armoured tanks, with the lowest hit points, who's main strengths are camo and view range, all of which suggests they are clearly best used at range. But you have accuracy that means you have to be close. 

 

- Hit points are too low

On most tiers light tanks have hit points at about the average level of mediums from the tier below, so like on tier 8 most lights have about 1100 hit points, and on tier 7 most mediums have around 1100 hit points.  Tier 6 lights have 580 to 610 hit points and tier 5 mediums have 420 to 610 hit points. 

 

Yet on tier 10, the lights have (I am ignoring WVs here) 1400 to 1600 hit points, only ONE tier 9 med has 1600 HP, and the rest range from 1650 to 1800, which clearly shows that the tier 10 lights should more have about 1600 to 1800 hit points, and are about 200 hit points down for no real reason. 

 

So to me the the changes are pretty simple (adjust by relative strength of the vehicle compared to the other lights, i.e T-100 gets slightly less and Rhm. gets slightly more) basically the 5 tier 10 lights need -

 

  • 20-25m more view range.
  • DPMs to around 2.7k to 3k.
  • Penetrations up by about 10-12mm, plus current penetration drop off made to be slightly more than meds now.
  • 150-200 more hit points. 
  • Accuracy buffs to be in the 0.30 to 0.36 range. 

 

So let's take the worse tier 10 Light, the Rhm. Panzerwagen and apply those above buffs, you would now have a tank with -

 

  • 440m base view range.
  • 2.8k base DPM up from 2.2k DPM.
  • 254mm of base penetration (dropping to more like 235mm at 500m)
  • 1750 hit points.
  • 0.3 accuracy. 

 

i think that would be a more competitive tank. 

 



Negativvv #19 Posted 24 July 2019 - 03:26 PM

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All LTs would need to be far more comfortable would be accuracy.

 

As the long range derp is infuriating. As above, stuff like the Object 140 and Patton are almost laser accurate with short aim times, superb snap shot abilities and the back up of high pen.

 

Rest of the LT WG nerfs i could live with if I could hit what I aim at.



Cobra6 #20 Posted 24 July 2019 - 03:28 PM

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@Tajj:

But good players would totally own the "Steve's" of this game with that configuration so it will never happen unfortunately.

 

Light tanks were tested to perfection by us on the Sandbox and WG decided to deliberately trash them on the live server....Ask yourself who they were protecting.

 

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