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What's the point of scouting light thanks with WV's?


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Ryn1k #1 Posted 25 July 2019 - 06:30 AM

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This is a legitimately neutral question as I was pondering it. What is the point of having scouting oriented light tanks in the game, when it seems wheeled vehicles just do the same thing better?

 

Surely the light tanks can sometimes do more damage, but to me it seems a massively secondary role after scouting.



Spurtung #2 Posted 25 July 2019 - 06:39 AM

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How many more threads being opened to say the same thing does it take before mods start dealing with it?

Xqual #3 Posted 25 July 2019 - 06:41 AM

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View PostSpurtung, on 25 July 2019 - 06:39 AM, said:

How many more threads being opened to say the same thing does it take before mods start dealing with it?

 

Untill WG balance them, there will be made new topics about them each day.

You have to live with that. Because they have effectively nerfed all light tanks from tier 8-10. rendered them more or less useless against the gocarts.



Spurtung #4 Posted 25 July 2019 - 06:45 AM

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View PostXqual, on 25 July 2019 - 05:41 AM, said:

 

Untill WG balance them, there will be made new topics about them each day.

You have to live with that. Because they have effectively nerfed all light tanks from tier 8-10. rendered them more or less useless against the gocarts.

 

 

Yeah? Well, I guess you'll just have "to live with that."



Negativvv #5 Posted 25 July 2019 - 07:05 AM

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I still enjoy a selection of LTs that aren't cars.

 

However really need to be aware of the MM as the amount of times I've been troll spotted by a stupid WV which has resulted in me getting nuked...

 

 



OmniWalou #6 Posted 25 July 2019 - 07:08 AM

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View PostXqual, on 25 July 2019 - 06:41 AM, said:

Untill WG balance them, there will be made new topics about them each day.

You have to live with that. Because they have effectively nerfed all light tanks from tier 8-10. rendered them more or less useless against the gocarts.

 

Are you by any chance trying to do the same thing still with your lights as before WV were introduced? News flash, a new mechanic got introduced called wheeled vehicles that are fast. So you need to change your approach a bit to outplay the wheelies. It's not that hard in the end, first you have to admit that you are the problem, not the WVs.

Long_Range_Sniper #7 Posted 25 July 2019 - 07:51 AM

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View PostRyn1k, on 25 July 2019 - 05:30 AM, said:

This is a legitimately neutral question as I was pondering it. What is the point of having scouting oriented light tanks in the game, when it seems wheeled vehicles just do the same thing better?

 

Surely the light tanks can sometimes do more damage, but to me it seems a massively secondary role after scouting.

 

WV's don't do scouting better than light tanks, they just do it differently. They can get to key points on maps quicker, but then suffer with view range if they play passively. They are very useful on the right maps, but also can find themselves unable to operate unless the player is quite skilled at balancing the speed, driving mode and positioning all at the same time. In CW the EBR 105 can make or break a game with early spots, but in randoms a light tank may be more adaptable because you're having to rely on random team players.

Negativvv #8 Posted 25 July 2019 - 07:57 AM

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Also if you hate WVs then load a HE shell as your first shot.

 

If one tries their cheesy rubbish of troll drive bys then they can be punished.



Slyspy #9 Posted 25 July 2019 - 07:58 AM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 25 July 2019 - 07:51 AM, said:

 

WV's don't do scouting better than light tanks, they just do it differently. They can get to key points on maps quicker, but then suffer with view range if they play passively. They are very useful on the right maps, but also can find themselves unable to operate unless the player is quite skilled at balancing the speed, driving mode and positioning all at the same time. In CW the EBR 105 can make or break a game with early spots, but in randoms a light tank may be more adaptable because you're having to rely on random team players.

 

The point is that in the initial scouting phase the only thing that a WV can spot (unless yolo) is likely to be the enemy lights, of whatever variety, which they are also ideally equipped to engage. Net result, defend arty adapt your play with your LT.

Long_Range_Sniper #10 Posted 25 July 2019 - 08:47 AM

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View PostSlyspy, on 25 July 2019 - 06:58 AM, said:

 

The point is that in the initial scouting phase the only thing that a WV can spot (unless yolo) is likely to be the enemy lights, of whatever variety, which they are also ideally equipped to engage. Net result, defend arty adapt your play with your LT.

 

That's not actually totally correct IMHO. There are a number of maps like Prok, Westfield, Murovanka, or even Dorf where a WV can position itself to spot enemy mediums or heavy tanks taking positions. You may spot the enemy light, and you may even both be contesting the same position, but the aim of your early WV spot is to light up the enemy medium/heavy tanks (or arty). What happens then is that their sixth sense goes off, they freeze, or maybe try and shoot you if you're spotted. During this time your own arty throws one at them, and in the turmoil your own medium and heavy tanks gain the chance to get map control



tajj7 #11 Posted 25 July 2019 - 08:56 AM

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View PostSlyspy, on 25 July 2019 - 06:58 AM, said:

 

The point is that in the initial scouting phase the only thing that a WV can spot (unless yolo) is likely to be the enemy lights, of whatever variety, which they are also ideally equipped to engage. Net result, defend arty adapt your play with your LT.

 

Nope. 

 

Unless the light player is dumb, they should be the last thing spotted. Usually WVs light up the things with the worst on the move camo, namely heavies, some meds, some bad camo TDs. 

 

Basically before WVs, LTs were passive and active spotters, now WVs are the active spotters most of the time and the lights are the passive spotters. 

 

The only way a light gets lit up by a WV is if its trying to do the same old tired things again and again, trying to be an active spotter rushing for frontal positions against a faster vehicle. That is bad play, it's no different to a non-hull down tank trying to challenge a hull down tank in a defensive position or trying to get to a forward position in a medium when there are faster autoloaders on the enemy team likely to also challenge for that spot (like trying to rush hill on Mines with a Patton against a Bat Chat).

 

It's just bad play.

 

If played correctly, the light has more than enough camo on the move to initially move to a less risky forward spotting position, get in a bush and then can comfortably light up the WV without ever being spotted, pushing the WV back as it inevitably will take fire being always spotted, eventually pushing it out of the game. 

 

I really don't get how this is a hard concept for people. 



arthurwellsley #12 Posted 25 July 2019 - 09:03 AM

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View PostRyn1k, on 25 July 2019 - 05:30 AM, said:

This is a legitimately neutral question as I was pondering it. What is the point of having scouting oriented light tanks in the game, when it seems wheeled vehicles just do the same thing better?

 

Surely the light tanks can sometimes do more damage, but to me it seems a massively secondary role after scouting.

 

In my garage at the moment at tier VIII (which I am using as I have only got to tier VIII on the WH so far);

 

B-C 12t - two and a half perk crew = view range 435, camo rating 31.28

Walker Bulldog - one and a half perk crew = view range 466, camo rating 17.25

WZ 132 - one and a half perk crew = view range 438, camo rating 30.1

 

M41 90 - three and a half perk crew = view range 433, camo rating 26.91

LT-432 - four and a half perk crew = view range 460, camo rating 36.3

ELC Even 90 - three and a half perk crew = view range 447, camo rating 47.96

 

Panhard AML Lynx 6x6 -  girl crew with three perks = view range 368, camo rating 36.83

 

All have coated optics. Look at the WH view range = 368. Then compare it to all my other light tanks of the same tier.

 

Your question OP was "when it seems wheeled vehicles just do the same thing better?". How is that view range in any way better?

 

A decent WH player will actively scout trying to use his on the move camo, but if he gets too close to a passive light tank well placed in a bush he will be lit.

 

 

 


Edited by arthurwellsley, 25 July 2019 - 09:05 AM.


LordMuffin #13 Posted 25 July 2019 - 09:20 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 25 July 2019 - 08:56 AM, said:

 

Nope. 

 

Unless the light player is dumb, they should be the last thing spotted. Usually WVs light up the things with the worst on the move camo, namely heavies, some meds, some bad camo TDs. 

 

Basically before WVs, LTs were passive and active spotters, now WVs are the active spotters most of the time and the lights are the passive spotters. 

 

The only way a light gets lit up by a WV is if its trying to do the same old tired things again and again, trying to be an active spotter rushing for frontal positions against a faster vehicle. That is bad play, it's no different to a non-hull down tank trying to challenge a hull down tank in a defensive position or trying to get to a forward position in a medium when there are faster autoloaders on the enemy team likely to also challenge for that spot (like trying to rush hill on Mines with a Patton against a Bat Chat).

 

It's just bad play.

 

If played correctly, the light has more than enough camo on the move to initially move to a less risky forward spotting position, get in a bush and then can comfortably light up the WV without ever being spotted, pushing the WV back as it inevitably will take fire being always spotted, eventually pushing it out of the game. 

 

I really don't get how this is a hard concept for people. 

Lights can't active spot, so they are forced into passive bystanders (maybe spot the WV now and again). What I do now as a light tank against WV is to play very passive until the WV is dead, or go to the complete opposite side of the map and try to do something there.

 

Passive spotting is useless mostly, and if you take an aggressive bush to sit in while not knowing where enemy WV is going, chances are you will either get spotted going there or when you are there and the WV gets to close. 

 

It is not hard, it is boring, because light tanks are no longer able to do what they once could do. They are forced into sitting in a passive bush and wait position, or go brawl.

08:23 Added after 2 minutes

View Postarthurwellsley, on 25 July 2019 - 09:03 AM, said:

 

In my garage at the moment at tier VIII (which I am using as I have only got to tier VIII on the WH so far);

 

B-C 12t - two and a half perk crew = view range 435, camo rating 31.28

Walker Bulldog - one and a half perk crew = view range 466, camo rating 17.25

WZ 132 - one and a half perk crew = view range 438, camo rating 30.1

 

M41 90 - three and a half perk crew = view range 433, camo rating 26.91

LT-432 - four and a half perk crew = view range 460, camo rating 36.3

ELC Even 90 - three and a half perk crew = view range 447, camo rating 47.96

 

Panhard AML Lynx 6x6 -  girl crew with three perks = view range 368, camo rating 36.83

 

All have coated optics. Look at the WH view range = 368. Then compare it to all my other light tanks of the same tier.

 

Your question OP was "when it seems wheeled vehicles just do the same thing better?". How is that view range in any way better?

 

A decent WH player will actively scout trying to use his on the move camo, but if he gets too close to a passive light tank well placed in a bush he will be lit.

 

 

 

If he gets to close to the light tank, both tanks will be lit.

And decent player in a WV can dig out light tanks in semi-aggressive/aggressive bushes by proxy spotting them.

The result will most often be, light dies,  WV survive with a shot taken. 



tajj7 #14 Posted 25 July 2019 - 09:44 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 25 July 2019 - 08:20 AM, said:

Lights can't active spot, so they are forced into passive bystanders (maybe spot the WV now and again). What I do now as a light tank against WV is to play very passive until the WV is dead, or go to the complete opposite side of the map and try to do something there.

 

Passive spotting is useless mostly, and if you take an aggressive bush to sit in while not knowing where enemy WV is going, chances are you will either get spotted going there or when you are there and the WV gets to close. 

 

It is not hard, it is boring, because light tanks are no longer able to do what they once could do. They are forced into sitting in a passive bush and wait position, or go brawl.

08:23 Added after 2 minutes

If he gets to close to the light tank, both tanks will be lit.

And decent player in a WV can dig out light tanks in semi-aggressive/aggressive bushes by proxy spotting them.

The result will most often be, light dies,  WV survive with a shot taken. 

 

Of course lights can active spot.

 

For a start there are not always WVs on the enemy team.

 

But also most maps there are specific ridges where people active spot and WVs do the same thing lights do. Go play any game of Prohk, doesn't matter whether its a light or a WV, 9/10 someone will be driving the mid ridge on Prohk regardless of whats on the enemy team. 

 

Same goes with many other maps, there are active spotting spots on many maps that most players know if your try to go beyond that point early game, even in the faster WVs, is suicide, so they spot from there. 

 

And how are they forced into being bystanders? They are not at all, they just can't do the same easy mode things they have always done.

 

You post smacks of the same stuff spouted by all the bad players, 'I want to do the same old things I have always done and if I can't I am going to complain'. 

 

Which is not a valid argument in the slightest.

 

Lights are fine vs WVs, players being bad is not a balance problem. Lights have issues generally with maps and meta, not WVs. 

 



Oldewolfe #15 Posted 25 July 2019 - 10:37 AM

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There's nothing to Deal With....       They're Easy Pickings if you Pay Attention....      I know that's Hard for most of you, Paying Attention that is, but if you Watch Them you'll find they're not Hard at all to Handle....     And with the Majority of them not Lasting the first Minute or 2 I still don't see the Issue....

 

Better yet, Drive one yourself and see how Easy it is to get Picked Off and How Hard they are to Drive....     Let alone Spot anything....

 

They don't Hurt Scouting Tanks at all, if the Armored Car Lights it, a Light Tank can keep them Lit because he has the VR to do it.....         Armored Cars are Blind as a Bat, the only way they see ANYTHING is to about Literally Run into it.....         You're only Irrelevant if you Keep yourself Irrelevant.....   

 

And Crying about the Armored Cars every 2 Seconds is, Irrelevant.....



pecopad #16 Posted 25 July 2019 - 12:18 PM

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View PostOldewolfe, on 25 July 2019 - 10:37 AM, said:

There's nothing to Deal With....       They're Easy Pickings if you Pay Attention....      I know that's Hard for most of you, Paying Attention that is, but if you Watch Them you'll find they're not Hard at all to Handle....     And with the Majority of them not Lasting the first Minute or 2 I still don't see the Issue....

 

Better yet, Drive one yourself and see how Easy it is to get Picked Off and How Hard they are to Drive....     Let alone Spot anything....

 

They don't Hurt Scouting Tanks at all, if the Armored Car Lights it, a Light Tank can keep them Lit because he has the VR to do it.....         Armored Cars are Blind as a Bat, the only way they see ANYTHING is to about Literally Run into it.....         You're only Irrelevant if you Keep yourself Irrelevant.....   

 

And Crying about the Armored Cars every 2 Seconds is, Irrelevant.....

 

I think generalizations are dangerous and they can lead people in the wrong path. WV's are ok except for the EBR and the premium tier 8.

 

Both this tanks are a counter LT, which are already pretty weak in the game. When playing a LT,  the known passive scouting positions will be denied by players in the WV's, and you can't counter because the gun handling on those tanks means that you stand no chance against them.

 

I have no problems with other WV's, but the FL is way better than the Lynx, making this tank irrelevant.



Cobra6 #17 Posted 25 July 2019 - 12:47 PM

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View PostRyn1k, on 25 July 2019 - 05:30 AM, said:

This is a legitimately neutral question as I was pondering it. What is the point of having scouting oriented light tanks in the game, when it seems wheeled vehicles just do the same thing better?

 

Surely the light tanks can sometimes do more damage, but to me it seems a massively secondary role after scouting.

 

Your light tank has far better view range in most cases so the WV can't even get close.

 

But besides that, light tanks which are pretty much only made for spotting like the EVEN90 are uncompetitive anyway in a fight so a WV won't make them any worse.

 

Cobra 6



SharpBlue #18 Posted 25 July 2019 - 12:55 PM

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Light tanks are the hard counter to WV in the early game.

 

WV are the hard counter to passive spotting lights.

 

Both lights and WV who know what they are doing will save their HP for the end game and then dominate the Scrubs who are left so you can come on the forum and cry about them AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN......

 

Most WV and light drivers die in the 1st few mins anyway, stop crying when people know how to use them.

 

 

 



Balc0ra #19 Posted 25 July 2019 - 01:01 PM

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Better? Well, that depends on who you ask I guess. Most see then as failed active scouts even. As if you have a wheeled on Mines. Then yes he will def spot things first. On the more open maps vs a 445m passive tracked light? Less so.

 

More so than not I never did spot much on my first sweep. And by the time you do the 2nd you get spotted first more so then you see the enemy light coming towards you. On most maps after the first sweep. I just follow my tracked light to help him counter LT's vs trying to spot them first. 



Oldewolfe #20 Posted 25 July 2019 - 02:47 PM

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Which also goes back to the OTHER Argument...      It's not the EBR's that are the Issue, it's the State of the MAJORITY of the Other Tanks, Primarily the Older Ones.....       EBR's are a Non Issue, they're like anything else in the Game, Learn it or get Eaten by it...

 

But most are not Happy with how the Light Tanks got Handled in the first place when they got their Lines "Enhanced" and the Changes to +/-2 MM.....     Haven't been since the Changes Happened, how long ago was that now...      They've all felt the Upgrades were nothing short of 10 Steps Back for the Lights....     And as for the Rest of the Original Tanks, the Game itself has Out Paced them.....

 

I wasn't playing Lights back then for +3/-2 or whatever it was....     I only started them because my Missions for the Stug IV were Done EXCEPT for the Lights, only needed the Last Half of those or so....      But in the one's I do have, I'm not seeing an Issue with them...         If they don't Resolve themselves at the Game Start, they generally do by Mid Game....     It's Rare that I see one Live to the End, THOSE are the one's you need to watch out for....

 

Even in Tier 10 Clan Wars, I see an Even Mix of T100's and EBR's, but the T100 still seems more Popular for the VR and Pancake Factor....     I see More of the Reward Tanks than the EBR's....






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