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Tier 8 MM Seems Bugged

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Mullet_Lord #1 Posted 25 July 2019 - 10:02 PM

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So, I played a total of 20 games over the course of this afternoon, nearly all of them in the T-44 (the rest were in other T8 tanks). Every single game was either fully tier 8, top tier tier 9 or top tier tier 10. The matchmaking was supposedly designed to give a decent spread of gameplay experiences, however not seeing a single tier 7 or lower tank over that time seems rather strange, if not simply bugged. Would it be possible to get some clarification as to why events like this happen, as I understand that lowering queue times is great and all, but essentially limiting the capacity for having good games in tier 8 is very much unfair. 

I can provide images upon request.

UnicumReroll123 #2 Posted 26 July 2019 - 02:38 AM

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tier 10 mm is too good in its current state, can we get 6 lights and 6 arties instead of 3 arties and 6 tds? 

Spurtung #3 Posted 26 July 2019 - 02:58 AM

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View PostMullet_Lord, on 25 July 2019 - 09:02 PM, said:

The matchmaking was supposedly designed to give a decent spread of gameplay experiences, however not seeing a single tier 7 or lower tank over that time seems rather strange, if not simply bugged.

 

They said the same thing about map rotation.

 

Sadly, they weren't so keen on spreading out the info that neither of those were actually working, and left that statement for some Q&A. Typical WG.


Edited by Spurtung, 26 July 2019 - 03:02 AM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #4 Posted 26 July 2019 - 03:43 AM

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View PostMullet_Lord, on 25 July 2019 - 10:02 PM, said:

Every single game was either fully tier 8, top tier tier 9 or top tier tier 10. The matchmaking was supposedly designed to give a decent spread of gameplay experiences, 

 

How is that not a decent spread of tiers? If you had been put into +2 the entire day maybe you would have a point but otherwise that's fine.



Robbie_T #5 Posted 26 July 2019 - 04:24 AM

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View PostMullet_Lord, on 25 July 2019 - 10:02 PM, said:

So, I played a total of 20 games over the course of this afternoon, nearly all of them in the T-44 (the rest were in other T8 tanks). Every single game was either fully tier 8, top tier tier 9 or top tier tier 10. The matchmaking was supposedly designed to give a decent spread of gameplay experiences, however not seeing a single tier 7 or lower tank over that time seems rather strange, if not simply bugged. Would it be possible to get some clarification as to why events like this happen, as I understand that lowering queue times is great and all, but essentially limiting the capacity for having good games in tier 8 is very much unfair. 

I can provide images upon request.

 

........ really ....

 

so basicly you telling you only have good games when you top tier ...okay....

And its unfair when you mid or low tier but its all good when you are the top tier.

Let me quess you also made 20 tickets to Wg  about it.



DonKralleone #6 Posted 26 July 2019 - 09:46 AM

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I've been playing tier 8 quite a bit lately, and i tend to agree with OP's observation ( only "the feels" though, i've not bothered with a spreadsheet), although i don't think its a "bug" per se.

Playing tier 8 almost always equals meeting tier 8 and/or above.

 

Once in a while you'll meet tier 7's, but being top tier vs 6's is rare imo.

 

I'm figuring it could be explained by the law of mass action by a sort equilibrium being driven towards tier 9 and 10 by the number of players in those tiers, "pulling" tier 8 along with it, since they are directly connected via the Matchmalker.



Gruff_ #7 Posted 26 July 2019 - 01:55 PM

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Tier 8 is the busiest most popular tier so in order to get those all those tanks into a game it's more likely to but you in +2 3/5/7 +1 5/10 same tier, or whatever other configuration there is to get the tier8 tanks out of the que.

 

I've also been playing tier 8's and have had a only few top tier games so they are out there but the majority are same tier or +1/+2



SuNo_TeSLa #8 Posted 27 July 2019 - 11:00 AM

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Tier 8 MM is good these days, with the exception being FL-week when everything turns to shite again :)

Gkirmathal #9 Posted 27 July 2019 - 11:11 AM

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View PostDonKralleone, on 26 July 2019 - 08:46 AM, said:

snip...

 

Once in a while you'll meet tier 7's, but being top tier vs 6's is rare imo.

 

snip...

 

With the type of (premium) tier 8 content that, mostly, dominate the MM queue these past year+, maybe it this a good thing for those lower tier. Not to mention it is also not a productive thing for the folks who purchased the former, but at least it is workable.


Edited by Gkirmathal, 27 July 2019 - 11:12 AM.


UrQuan #10 Posted 27 July 2019 - 11:12 AM

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View PostGruff_, on 26 July 2019 - 01:55 PM, said:

Tier 8 is the busiest most popular tier so in order to get those all those tanks into a game it's more likely to but you in +2 3/5/7 +1 5/10 same tier, or whatever other configuration there is to get the tier8 tanks out of the que.

 

I've also been playing tier 8's and have had a only few top tier games so they are out there but the majority are same tier or +1/+2

 

This really, same tier MM, +1 & +2 position in the MM just removes T8 tanks faster from the queue + more chance to land in them (more spots)

 

Hence if you land toptier or midtier in an match that makes you see lower tiers, make the most of it. It is what I do, all my skills, honed in fighting higher & same tier tanks will now be deployed against lower tier tanks. When you drive an armored tank that way, the sillyness of it goes up fast.

Me when toptier in my armored tank in a 3-5-7:

Flanking? Taking cover? Why? I'm in a heavy tank! I will go through them!

 



Baldrickk #11 Posted 27 July 2019 - 11:17 AM

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View PostUrQuan, on 27 July 2019 - 11:12 AM, said:

 

This really, same tier MM, +1 & +2 position in the MM just removes T8 tanks faster from the queue + more chance to land in them (more spots)

 

Hence if you land toptier or midtier in an match that makes you see lower tiers, make the most of it. It is what I do, all my skills, honed in fighting higher & same tier tanks will now be deployed against lower tier tanks. When you drive an armored tank that way, the sillyness of it goes up fast.

Me when toptier in my armored tank in a 3-5-7:

Flanking? Taking cover? Why? I'm in a heavy tank! I will go through them!

 

Well, it's not quite as bad as Maus vs stock tier 5s ;)

 

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 26 July 2019 - 03:43 AM, said:

 

How is that not a decent spread of tiers? If you had been put into +2 the entire day maybe you would have a point but otherwise that's fine.

He means he was never top in a +2 or a +1


 

Mullet_Lord #12 Posted 27 July 2019 - 06:08 PM

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View PostRobbie_T, on 26 July 2019 - 04:24 AM, said:

 

........ really ....

 

so basicly you telling you only have good games when you top tier ...okay....

And its unfair when you mid or low tier but its all good when you are the top tier.

Let me quess you also made 20 tickets to Wg  about it.

No, what I am stating is that in 20 games, not even seeing tier 7s or 6s seems strange. I am not stating that it is okay to bully lower tiers, nor am I saying that it is not okay to get games as the bottom tier. What I am arguing is that the matchmaking should endeavour to give a decent spread of bottom, mid bottom, equal, mid top and top tier games to enable players to have a break from having to clutch out results against tanks that are objectively better than your own. 

As for your comments regarding WG tickets and "Only have good games when top tier" those are baseless accusations without any evidence and add nothing to this argument/discussion whatsoever.



Nishi_Kinuyo #13 Posted 27 July 2019 - 06:25 PM

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View PostUrQuan, on 27 July 2019 - 11:12 AM, said:

 

This really, same tier MM, +1 & +2 position in the MM just removes T8 tanks faster from the queue + more chance to land in them (more spots)

 

Hence if you land toptier or midtier in an match that makes you see lower tiers, make the most of it. It is what I do, all my skills, honed in fighting higher & same tier tanks will now be deployed against lower tier tanks. When you drive an armored tank that way, the sillyness of it goes up fast.

Me when toptier in my armored tank in a 3-5-7:

Flanking? Taking cover? Why? I'm in a heavy tank! I will go through them!

 

May I remind you that the Maus in that anime got beaten by a tier 2 and a tier 4 working together? :girl:



Dorander #14 Posted 27 July 2019 - 06:39 PM

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View PostMullet_Lord, on 27 July 2019 - 05:08 PM, said:

No, what I am stating is that in 20 games, not even seeing tier 7s or 6s seems strange. I am not stating that it is okay to bully lower tiers, nor am I saying that it is not okay to get games as the bottom tier. What I am arguing is that the matchmaking should endeavour to give a decent spread of bottom, mid bottom, equal, mid top and top tier games to enable players to have a break from having to clutch out results against tanks that are objectively better than your own. 

As for your comments regarding WG tickets and "Only have good games when top tier" those are baseless accusations without any evidence and add nothing to this argument/discussion whatsoever.

 

I think this is because there'll always be a discrepancy between what Wargaming wants and what players want. The only thing to be reliably high/top tier is to play tier 9 and 10, where playing costs are high and people who pay for premium time/tanks are much more comfortable than those who don't. Plenty free to play games have some annoying thing that motivates people to pay (or are outright pay to win), 'cause people need to get something for their money. Motivating you to get up the tiers asap so you won't be bottom tier all the time anymore seems to be Wargaming's annoying feature.

 

The bad news for this scenario is that the situation has in fact recently improved, it used to be a virtual guarantee that you'd be bottom tier in tier 8 tanks, they'd see tier 10 nearly all the time. At least now you get some battletier 9 battles and straight 8 battles. I always wonder who those lucky people are who get to be top tier whenever I'm bottom tier while trying to grind lines, and once in a blue moon I'm one of those too but the system allows for 3 people to be happy with the tier spraed and 7 to be very likely unhappy. It makes grinding lines do my head in as well, every time I try to grind something new, I decide to just go back to what I have, then at least I won't feel shafted.

 

I can't even recommend grinding tier 8s in FL right now, I tried that a few times last week. Most of the non-premium tier 8s are disgustingly underpowered and you'll feel useless against the Progetto/EBR/LT432/YMMVonanythingelse premfest. Doubly so if your tank isn't elite yet. My current solution, other than simply not playing too much, is to grind free experience and skip tanks instead *glares at 110*.



Balc0ra #15 Posted 27 July 2019 - 06:49 PM

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View PostMullet_Lord, on 25 July 2019 - 10:02 PM, said:

The matchmaking was supposedly designed to give a decent spread of gameplay experiences

 

Indeed. As in when you get +2 too often. +0 is considered top tier, same as if you play -1 or -2. And tier 8 with the new MM is more or less 50% +0 games.



vasilinhorulezz #16 Posted 27 July 2019 - 07:22 PM

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I don't understand why people think that the MM is good now, because of single tier battles. I play tier VIII and all the time the MM puts me against tier IXs and Xs, and when I'm finally top tier Boom, single tier game. Keep loading the gold to pen Defenders and VKs and all the BS tanks with 0 weakspots to shoot at. And then there's the tier VI and VII MM, that goes bottom tier 80% of the time. Yea, good MM indeed.

Baldrickk #17 Posted 27 July 2019 - 07:30 PM

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View Postvasilinhorulezz, on 27 July 2019 - 07:22 PM, said:

I don't understand why people think that the MM is good now, because of single tier battles. I play tier VIII and all the time the MM puts me against tier IXs and Xs, and when I'm finally top tier Boom, single tier game. Keep loading the gold to pen Defenders and VKs and all the BS tanks with 0 weakspots to shoot at. And then there's the tier VI and VII MM, that goes bottom tier 80% of the time. Yea, good MM indeed.

I remember when you got a good mix.

You know,  before the template system



Dragos_CS #18 Posted 27 July 2019 - 08:52 PM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 27 July 2019 - 07:30 PM, said:

I remember when you got a good mix.

You know,  before the template system

^

Templates were the biggest fail they pulled off, maybe ever.



Dorander #19 Posted 27 July 2019 - 08:58 PM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 27 July 2019 - 06:30 PM, said:

I remember when you got a good mix.

You know,  before the template system


Tierwise yes but the old system had its own set of problems, such as its tendency to count TDs and meds as equivalents so you ended up with one team consisting of 8 TDs and the other of 8 meds.

 

The template system itself isn't the problem of the tiers, how the overall matchmaker uses the template system to form battles is. There's no reason a template system can't assign a player an equal amount of top tiers as it does bottom tiers, even if it only uses a 3-5-7 mirrored template, but the priority of the system Wargaming chose is "do it quickly" instead of "do it well". I've personally always maintained that a playerbase is going to be perfectly happy waiting 3 seconds longer for a match if it means a more fun game due to a better matchup, but Wargaming apparently has this "asap or bust" thing in their heads.



kaneloon #20 Posted 27 July 2019 - 09:06 PM

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@OP : the MM is supposed to not look at which tank you alternate your games : so it can put you low tiers in every t44 games and top tiers in some of your other tiers 8 games.





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