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Firing your gun fully aimed shouldn't be so random


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RemzDNB #1 Posted 28 July 2019 - 10:13 PM

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Why do the shells do not go straight to the crosshair when fully aimed ? A shooter with bullets flying randomly, that's so dumb when I think about it.

I'm gonna try to make a game like this with futuristic tanks and without all this [edited], wish me luck !



Captain_Kremen0 #2 Posted 28 July 2019 - 10:18 PM

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Good luck!

 

fyi 7372



Dorander #3 Posted 28 July 2019 - 10:26 PM

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"Dumb"? So what exactly is the objective argument for the requirement of pixel-perfect accuracy?

 

Games function according to how they are designed and there's tons of games that have a random element to determine outcomes, whether this is dice in board/tabletop games or random number generators in computer games. The fact that this game happens to render a shell arc doesn't make it inherently different from all those games designed with a similar success chance element.



onderschepper #4 Posted 28 July 2019 - 10:29 PM

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Making such a game, heck any game, is not the difficult part, getting it published through a worthwhile company and acquiring a fan base is the real challenge.

 

I wish you luck. :honoring:



PowJay #5 Posted 28 July 2019 - 10:34 PM

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The accuracy of the guns is partly based on real life (I guess) as guns do have varying degrees of accuracy from pistols that are lucky to hit a target 50m away to rifles that have performed multiple kill shots at over a mile range.

 

RNG also levels the playing field a little between noobs who randomly shoot in the general direction of enemy tanks, and unicums, who would reliably pen weakspots with every shot if they could. 



XxKuzkina_MatxX #6 Posted 28 July 2019 - 10:42 PM

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View PostPowJay, on 29 July 2019 - 01:34 AM, said:

The accuracy of the guns is partly based on real life (I guess) as guns do have varying degrees of accuracy from pistols that are lucky to hit a target 50m away to rifles that have performed multiple kill shots at over a mile range.

 

RNG also levels the playing field a little between noobs who randomly shoot in the general direction of enemy tanks, and unicums, who would reliably pen weakspots with every shot if they could. 

 

Nope, it's much worse in the game taking the distance into account of course.



HaZardeur #7 Posted 28 July 2019 - 11:06 PM

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View PostPowJay, on 28 July 2019 - 10:34 PM, said:

The accuracy of the guns is partly based on real life (I guess) as guns do have varying degrees of accuracy from pistols that are lucky to hit a target 50m away to rifles that have performed multiple kill shots at over a mile range.

 

RNG also levels the playing field a little between noobs who randomly shoot in the general direction of enemy tanks, and unicums, who would reliably pen weakspots with every shot if they could. 

 

View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 28 July 2019 - 10:42 PM, said:

 

Nope, it's much worse in the game taking the distance into account of course.

 

True... I was gunner in a Leo 1A4 and we had never a shot drop into the mud infront of a 400m target :facepalm:



unhappy_bunny #8 Posted 28 July 2019 - 11:10 PM

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View PostPowJay, on 28 July 2019 - 09:34 PM, said:

The accuracy of the guns is partly based on real life (I guess) as guns do have varying degrees of accuracy from pistols that are lucky to hit a target 50m away to rifles that have performed multiple kill shots at over a mile range.

 

RNG also levels the playing field a little between noobs who randomly shoot in the general direction of enemy tanks, and unicums, who would reliably pen weakspots with every shot if they could. 

 

View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 28 July 2019 - 09:42 PM, said:

 

Nope, it's much worse in the game taking the distance into account of course.


Never having been in the position of firing the gun of a WW2 or Cold War era tank, even in a peacetime environment, I couldn't say with any certainty if this reflects real life or not. 

However, it would seem likely that 100% accuracy was impossible to achieve given the various elements involved in the equation.

For instance:

Quality of manufacture of the tank, the gun, and the ammunition. 

Quality of the gunsights and aiming mechanism.

Quality of crew training.

Pressure on the crew from being under fire. 

Battlefield conditions, weather, smoke etc.

 

All these things could affect the performance of a tank, but how could these be introduced into a game? RNG seems to be one way, and an easy one at that. 



Balc0ra #9 Posted 28 July 2019 - 11:57 PM

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View PostRemzDNB, on 28 July 2019 - 10:13 PM, said:

I'm gonna try to make a game like this with futuristic tanks and without all this [edited], wish me luck !

 

Well.. there was this other tank game with modern tanks that almost died out when they had 0% RNG. It shifted the balance in all the wrong ways. As having 0.00001 dispersion on a 750 alpha gun in a tier 5 to 7 game is not... ideal is it?

 

 



PowJay #10 Posted 29 July 2019 - 10:13 AM

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View Postunhappy_bunny, on 28 July 2019 - 10:10 PM, said:

 


Never having been in the position of firing the gun of a WW2 or Cold War era tank, even in a peacetime environment, I couldn't say with any certainty if this reflects real life or not.

However, it would seem likely that 100% accuracy was impossible to achieve given the various elements involved in the equation.

For instance:

Quality of manufacture of the tank, the gun, and the ammunition.

Quality of the gunsights and aiming mechanism.

Quality of crew training.

Pressure on the crew from being under fire.

Battlefield conditions, weather, smoke etc.

 

All these things could affect the performance of a tank, but how could these be introduced into a game? RNG seems to be one way, and an easy one at that.

Thank you.


 

Of course, IRL, well-aimed shots these days tend to hit the target while both vehicles are on the move over rough terrain at 3km away, but things were not always this way. The engagement distances in WoT may be unrealistic and therefore things are just weirder- like missed shots from 40m, never mind 400m. RNG is the vehicle by which this inaccuracy is played out- although it is pretty extreme at times.



If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #11 Posted 29 July 2019 - 10:29 AM

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It depends who you are

We should have a poll

 

RNG stands for:

 

Random Number Generator

 

Russian Number Generator

 

Rigged Number Generator

 

What makes me REALLY suspicious is the fact that WoT is apparently unable to hold a Fornite type competition


Edited by If_I_Die_You_Die_Too, 29 July 2019 - 10:32 AM.


r00barb #12 Posted 29 July 2019 - 10:32 AM

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It's funny how RNG is only blamed for missed shots.

Baldrickk #13 Posted 29 July 2019 - 10:34 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 28 July 2019 - 10:42 PM, said:

 

Nope, it's much worse in the game taking the distance into account of course.

 

View PostHaZardeur, on 28 July 2019 - 11:06 PM, said:

 

 

True... I was gunner in a Leo 1A4 and we had never a shot drop into the mud infront of a 400m target :facepalm:

 

Distances are compressed massively in WOT. 

 

How many IRL tank battles took place at 10m from the enemy?

 

Because of that,  accuracy and shell gravity are much worse than in real life. 

 

It's needed to put tanks with ~4km kills IRL into battles on maps with 1km sides, and 500m render ranges.



If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #14 Posted 29 July 2019 - 10:34 AM

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It's funny how RNG is only blamed for missed shots.

 

Not really

 

RNG does some ridiculous hits too, some real WTF moments

 

It creates a "you were MEANT to miss" or "you were MEANT to hit" feeling about overall gameplay

 

All you do is point in the general direction and the RNG has already made the final decision

 

Sometimes you get a straight up game but you get an awful lot of weird no-way-hosey stuff too


Edited by If_I_Die_You_Die_Too, 29 July 2019 - 10:43 AM.


Lagalaza #15 Posted 29 July 2019 - 10:47 AM

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RNG is neccessary or the game becomes stupid. Even now it can be. I hit the Cupola on an AT something twice in 2 shots from one side of the map to the other with my ISU-152 and killed him taking all 1500HP from him. That is RNG working heavily for me. He missed or bounced all his shots at me in the same 20 or so seconds I was sat there. Two minutes later in the same battle I am 5 metres from a tier 10 medium with a premium ammo shot aimed at the side of his turret while he is looking elsewhere... shot misses despite being fully aimed and in fact hits a green tank 50+ metres the other side of him that drove into view at just the wrong moment!! RNG is unrealistic but neccessary and a little amusing at times.

Dorander #16 Posted 29 July 2019 - 10:56 AM

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View PostIf_I_Die_You_Die_Too, on 29 July 2019 - 09:34 AM, said:

 

Sometimes you get a straight up game but you get an awful lot of weird no-way-hosey stuff too

 

Which of course makes sense once you actually start thinking about how probability works. People have this tendency to consider every chance that they consider high enough to give a guaranteed result, pretending that it's 100% when it isn't. When chances aren't 100% but you think they ought to be 100% the result ends up feeling "weird", but what should happen is that people have to learn to expect some things to fail.

 

An easy example is 95% probability scenarios, people tend to think it's high enough and would gamble on such a chance easily. Yet when you realize that on average, one in twenty of those gambles would turn out to be a loss, that really high looking percentage suddenly has a lot of uncertainty in it. In WoT terms that's going to be about one shot in three games.



Cobra6 #17 Posted 29 July 2019 - 11:02 AM

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It's basically a crutch to remove as much skill as possible from the shooting to artificially help bad players and artificially limit skilled players. Much like any RNG in this game, also penetration.

 

Don't get me wrong, *SOME* RNG as fine to simulate real life variables but a 25% (1/4th) deviation (both ways) on penetration for instance is idiotic.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 29 July 2019 - 11:34 AM.


r00barb #18 Posted 29 July 2019 - 11:02 AM

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View PostIf_I_Die_You_Die_Too, on 29 July 2019 - 09:34 AM, said:

It creates a "you were MEANT to miss" or "you were MEANT to hit" feeling about overall gameplay

 

You only get that feeling if you're already looking for excuses. It's a lot easier to accept RNG for what it is if you appreciate what 'random' means.

 

I've said it before, I suspect there's a difference in approach if you played old tabletop games with dice rolls to resolve combat. Good or bad RNG simply replaces the roll of a dice. If you grew up playing FPS games with defined spread patterns, however, I can see how RNG would annoy you.



Ceeb #19 Posted 29 July 2019 - 11:07 AM

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Have you ever fired a gun ?

TankkiPoju #20 Posted 29 July 2019 - 11:10 AM

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View PostCeeb, on 29 July 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

Have you ever fired a gun ?

 

Have you ever fired a gun many times in a row? If you keep the barrell straight, every shot doesnt magically go around the target like in WoT.

 

 






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