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Chieftain Tank

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TurboTumor #1 Posted 29 July 2019 - 12:59 PM

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This tank is way too Overpowered and I tell you why.

 

Pros that support my claim:

- Upper plate is angled in auto bounce from almost every side

- Standard penetration of 270 is way too high and not justified at all

- Movement speed is way too good (you can compete with other medium tanks or even literally destroy them)

- Alpha Dmg, Gun Handling and DPM are too good for such a huge pen

- 10 degrees of Gun Depression gives you so many possibilities on every single map to hide your overangled upper plate(weakspot that most of you will mention) or your (almost non existent) cupola.

- When it comes to trading you are not going to do any dmg because Chieftain has no weakspots when going hull down or working on a richline. (BUT HIS CUPOLA??? No [edited]off good luck trying to hit his small cupola with your RNG slingshots)

- HE can do dmg when you can hit the upper plate with the AOE that HE has. ( No really jokes aside.... are you trading 100-250 alpha with 440???? Every Type 5 or Arty player will look at you and laugh about how stupid you are)  It is not even worth it at all to trade dmg like this

 

Cons that can be used against my claim:

- Weak against Arty and Type 5......... (like every single other tank if you didnt know)

 

Some people will be like "OH WTF BUT ONLY GOOD PLAYERS ARE PLAYING THESE TANKS OFC THEY WILL BE OP AF"

Understanable but look at the time where WG introduced 268 version 4 and it totally ***** the whole game bc every single ape was able to play it.

And giving OP Tanks which have almost no downsides and magical bounce armor (like obj 907) to good players is a really degenerated Idea from WG.

Like really I dont see anyone complaing about VK 72, M60 or 121B. About how strong and op they are... guess what they have a negative value which balances out the positive one and makes them therefore not overpowered (imagine a VK72 with 60km/h top speed, would be funny wouldnt it?)

 

Good day too you guys.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #2 Posted 29 July 2019 - 01:15 PM

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Impressive first post! :great:

 

Can we buff the S.C instead of nerfing the Chief? Just a thought.



arthurwellsley #3 Posted 29 July 2019 - 01:28 PM

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View PostTurboTumor, on 29 July 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

This tank is way too Overpowered and I tell you why.

 

Pros that support my claim:

- Upper plate is angled in auto bounce from almost every side

- Standard penetration of 270 is way too high and not justified at all

- Movement speed is way too good (you can compete with other medium tanks or even literally destroy them)

- Alpha Dmg, Gun Handling and DPM are too good for such a huge pen

- 10 degrees of Gun Depression gives you so many possibilities on every single map to hide your overangled upper plate(weakspot that most of you will mention) or your (almost non existent) cupola.

- When it comes to trading you are not going to do any dmg because Chieftain has no weakspots when going hull down or working on a richline. (BUT HIS CUPOLA??? No [edited]off good luck trying to hit his small cupola with your RNG slingshots)

- HE can do dmg when you can hit the upper plate with the AOE that HE has. ( No really jokes aside.... are you trading 100-250 alpha with 440???? Every Type 5 or Arty player will look at you and laugh about how stupid you are)  It is not even worth it at all to trade dmg like this

 

Cons that can be used against my claim:

- Weak against Arty and Type 5......... (like every single other tank if you didnt know)

 

Some people will be like "OH WTF BUT ONLY GOOD PLAYERS ARE PLAYING THESE TANKS OFC THEY WILL BE OP AF"

Understanable but look at the time where WG introduced 268 version 4 and it totally ***** the whole game bc every single ape was able to play it.

And giving OP Tanks which have almost no downsides and magical bounce armor (like obj 907) to good players is a really degenerated Idea from WG.

Like really I dont see anyone complaing about VK 72, M60 or 121B. About how strong and op they are... guess what they have a negative value which balances out the positive one and makes them therefore not overpowered (imagine a VK72 with 60km/h top speed, would be funny wouldnt it?)

 

Good day too you guys.

 

Presumably you are referring to the T95/FV4201 Chieftain

 

and not to the T95/Chieftain or even the Chieftain mk.VI.

 

Going back to the T95/FV4201 Chieftain facing it front on when it is behind a hill is just the thing a player with a 49% win rate would do OP.

 

The OP says "because Chieftain has no weakspots when going hull down" and thats right front on.

 

But the rear side of the turret armour is effective 99.8mm and the rear side strip is 89.5 effective under the turet bustle. It's not a huge strip, but it is there if you know where to get to it.


Edited by arthurwellsley, 29 July 2019 - 01:30 PM.


AvengerOrion #4 Posted 29 July 2019 - 01:29 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 29 July 2019 - 01:15 PM, said:

Impressive first post! :great:

 

Can we buff the S.C instead of nerfing the Chief? Just a thought.


Since when does the Super Conqueror needs buffing? :amazed:



XxKuzkina_MatxX #5 Posted 29 July 2019 - 01:45 PM

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View PostAvengerOrion, on 29 July 2019 - 04:29 PM, said:


Since when does the Super Conqueror needs buffing? :amazed:

 

Sarcasm? :)



Negativvv #6 Posted 29 July 2019 - 01:52 PM

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I got trolled hard by the T10 one the other day.

 

Was in a T8 and i got drilled from two sides by a pair of gold firing Chieftain :trollface:



TurboTumor #7 Posted 29 July 2019 - 01:53 PM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 29 July 2019 - 01:28 PM, said:

 

Presumably you are referring to the T95/FV4201 Chieftain

 

and not to the T95/Chieftain or even the Chieftain mk.VI.

 

Going back to the T95/FV4201 Chieftain facing it front on when it is behind a hill is just the thing a player with a 49% win rate would do OP.

 

The OP says "because Chieftain has no weakspots when going hull down" and thats right front on.

 

But the rear side of the turret armour is effective 99.8mm and the rear side strip is 89.5 effective under the turet bustle. It's not a huge strip, but it is there if you know where to get to it.

The tank itself is flat and can therefore hide the weakspots you mentioned in most places.

You could show a picture of the tank and mark the spots youre talking about so I can give you a clear answer.

I myself have a friend who owns this tank and we went into a 1v1 and tested it on different spots and different maps. You cant penetrate it when its hull down and because the tank has the movement of a medium you dont even get the time to aim at his weakspots.

12:58 Added after 5 minute

View PostNegativvv, on 29 July 2019 - 01:52 PM, said:

I got trolled hard by the T10 one the other day.

 

Was in a T8 and i got drilled from two sides by a pair of gold firing Chieftain :trollface:

Didnt you know? Firing premium rounds requires less skill. And putting a mechanic like this into a game requires the loss of braincells



Cobra6 #8 Posted 29 July 2019 - 02:14 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 29 July 2019 - 12:15 PM, said:

Impressive first post! :great:

 

Can we buff the S.C instead of nerfing the Chief? Just a thought.


Can we re-introduce viable frontal weak spots for same tier standard ammo and make this game balanced again instead of just perpetually buffing everything and creating power-creep?

 

Cobra 6



XxKuzkina_MatxX #9 Posted 29 July 2019 - 02:22 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 29 July 2019 - 05:14 PM, said:

Can we re-introduce viable frontal weak spots for same tier standard ammo and make this game balanced again instead of just perpetually buffing everything and creating power-creep?

 

I am sure WG prefer an arms race, it's good for business or at least they think so.



TurboTumor #10 Posted 29 July 2019 - 02:22 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 29 July 2019 - 02:14 PM, said:


Can we re-introduce viable frontal weak spots for same tier standard ammo and make this game balanced again instead of just perpetually buffing everything and creating power-creep?

 

Cobra 6

You can only hope for that since Wargamings reason for not making the chinese medium tech tree playable was (don't laught thats legit) that the people on chinese server liked their own tanks???

You see how hopeless they are and yet they have a big community that sticks with them bc they really want to enjoy the game again.



Element6 #11 Posted 29 July 2019 - 02:24 PM

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Tomatoes got to buy the op Defender and now better players are rewarded the T95...it's all just karma.

 

Funny how youtubers were spewing out videos on how stupid a strong T8 was, but the reaction on the CW tank isn't even a fraction of that...



TurboTumor #12 Posted 29 July 2019 - 02:27 PM

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View PostElement6, on 29 July 2019 - 02:24 PM, said:

Tomatoes got to buy the op Defender and now better players are rewarded the T95...it's all just karma.

 

Funny how youtubers were spewing out videos on how stupid a strong T8 was, but the reaction on the CW tank isn't even a fraction of that...

Yeah IKR I only agree with you on that one.

I saw a video of Mailand reviewing this tank and talking about how bad it is against HE and you see someone yoloing him and bouncing with HE on his upper plate 



Cobra6 #13 Posted 29 July 2019 - 03:29 PM

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View PostElement6, on 29 July 2019 - 01:24 PM, said:

Funny how youtubers were spewing out videos on how stupid a strong T8 was, but the reaction on the CW tank isn't even a fraction of that...

 

 

Well, at least you could not buy the OP T10 for money like the T8 one, that at least is a filter. It's still not right but at least it's not Pay 2 Win like the Defender is.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 29 July 2019 - 03:29 PM.


Element6 #14 Posted 29 July 2019 - 05:46 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 29 July 2019 - 03:29 PM, said:

 

 

Well, at least you could not buy the OP T10 for money like the T8 one, that at least is a filter. It's still not right but at least it's not Pay 2 Win like the Defender is.

 

Cobra 6

That's true. On the other hand the Defender is probably on the hands of players that far better represent the skill spectrum of the playerbase than the T95 is.

 

Personally I don't really care that much if some tanks are stronger than others, especially if they are premium/reward tanks as it seems most players you encounter are doing one or more grinds that tend to limit how much the spam these tanks.



Ceeb #15 Posted 30 July 2019 - 12:49 PM

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Id rather meet a Chieftan than the 279e.

 

 



chainreact0r #16 Posted 30 July 2019 - 01:51 PM

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View PostTurboTumor, on 29 July 2019 - 12:59 PM, said:

This tank is way too Overpowered and I tell you why.

 

Pros that support my claim:

- Upper plate is angled in auto bounce from almost every side except you can shoot the driver's hatch if the chieftain overpeaks a bit, which happens 99% of the time because he has to push a bit further to aim for your lower plate.

- Standard penetration of 270 is way too high and not justified at all pen is actually the biggest downside of this tank. At 500m, the pen becomes 240 and 280 which is garbage. At a decent distance you can't pen e-100 turret which is hilarious considering we are talking about the most op tank in the game. At close range it is indeed good, but it's apcr so it doesn't have normalization so it will bounce quite a lot on targets on which 258 AP pen of sconq would have gone through like butter. Or the broken 265 AP pen of the 277. Nobody complains about that.

- Movement speed is way too good (you can compete with other medium tanks or even literally destroy them) it's overall mobility and top speed is worse than the 430U's which is considered one of the slowest mediums in the game, so that statement is false.

- Alpha Dmg, Gun Handling and DPM are too good for such a huge pen dpm and gun handling are very good for the alpha, the pen is bad.

- 10 degrees of Gun Depression gives you so many possibilities on every single map to hide your overangled upper plate(weakspot that most of you will mention) or your (almost non existent) cupola.this is the one trick that this pony can do, and he does it very well indeed, as long as people dont spam HE and arta doesn't focus(which is never)

- When it comes to trading you are not going to do any dmg because Chieftain has no weakspots when going hull down or working on a richline. (BUT HIS CUPOLA??? No [edited]off good luck trying to hit his small cupola with your RNG slingshots) usually yes, but whenever i meet a 46% bob with 750 alpha, he bounces one shot and then hits me for 300 with HE. All is fair and balanced there.

- HE can do dmg when you can hit the upper plate with the AOE that HE has. ( No really jokes aside.... are you trading 100-250 alpha with 440???? Every Type 5 or Arty player will look at you and laugh about how stupid you are)  It is not even worth it at all to trade dmg like this you can easily overpush the chieftain if he is not behind a ridge. Like if he is hulldown behind rubble in a city, you can just push him after he fires and then you get an easy pen, because he can't angle in such a way that he is impenetrable on the flat ground.

 

Cons that can be used against my claim:

- Weak against Arty and Type 5......... (like every single other tank if you didnt know) every potato who sees a chieftain will instantly load HE, because that is the best he can do, and all the arties instantly focuses chieftain's, especially since it's so easy to notice on the minimap due to the long name. Both of these factors severely limit the potential and fun factor of playing the chieftain.

 

 

After saying all that, i am not defending the chieftain and saying it's balanced. It clearly has too good overall specs, but it's not quite as OP as people claim.

Most of the time people lack the brainpower to counter a chieftain when he is in a weak position and try to fight it when it's in the best position(hull down and arty safe).

 

It's a slightly OP tank but it's a manageable opponent, against which you don't even need gold ammo. Either both standard and gold pen or they both bounce.

Can't say that about the 279 now, can we?

 



STLR #17 Posted 30 July 2019 - 03:00 PM

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It's a slightly OP tank but it's a manageable opponent, against which you don't even need gold ammo. Either both standard and gold pen or they both bounce.

Can't say that about the 279 now, can we?

 

 

279 vs 260 - opinions? i believe 260 to be the superior machine.



Ceeb #18 Posted 30 July 2019 - 03:15 PM

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View PostSTLR, on 30 July 2019 - 02:00 PM, said:

 

279 vs 260 - opinions? i believe 260 to be the superior machine.

 

In the last campaign we were assaulted by a group of five 279e's   Made a mockery of a fighting chance to win a round..

 

it reminded me of a line from Kelly's Heroes "To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers"

 

Tiger's being the 279e's

 

I can deal with a 260,   People tell me to flank a 279e with is fantastic gun handling and amazing "SNAP" shots and fecked up armour profile.   Laughs at the Russian Bias denial.

 

 

 

 



Long_Range_Sniper #19 Posted 30 July 2019 - 03:53 PM

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View PostSTLR, on 30 July 2019 - 02:00 PM, said:

279 vs 260 - opinions? i believe 260 to be the superior machine.

 

We have 279e's in RGT and used them on some maps. I don't have one, and took a 260. There were rare occasions where it was just at the right angle upwards and could sit there taking shots all day long.

 

However, even in Himmelsdorf when we went up against 279e's I found the 260 able to cause the 279e plenty of trouble by being able to penetrate the upper plate because it couldn't get into any position where HEAT round wouldn't go through. Whereas I managed to absorb a fair few HEAT rounds from 279e's in reverse.

 

This doesn't mean the 279e isn't anything other than a broken tank, the fact that another tier X reward tank can at least cope. But it has kind of put me off totally pushing for the 279e like mad.

 

The Chieftan on the other hand.......:trollface:



vasilinhorulezz #20 Posted 30 July 2019 - 05:22 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 29 July 2019 - 02:14 PM, said:


Can we re-introduce viable frontal weak spots for same tier standard ammo and make this game balanced again instead of just perpetually buffing everything and creating power-creep?

 

Cobra 6


But, but but...it has a cupola to shoot at...

Joke...xD it's only two pixels and you gonna need a lot of virgins to sacrifice to RNG gods.

16:27 Added after 5 minute
This is just WGs new way of doing things, we want Steve to keep playing the game and give money, so we remove all skill from driving a tank, so he can rolfstomp everything in his new tank, I mean, seriously, remember a time where driving a Maus was all about correctly angling the tank and wiggling the turret? Now even if you angle the Maus in the worst possible angle, it will still bounce 60% of the shots. It's ridiculous how press w and pew pew has Heavy tank game-play become.





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