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Sherman Firefly


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Poll: Sherman Firefly (1162 members have cast votes)

Should the Firefly be premium or regular?

  1. Regular (909 votes [78.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 78.23%

  2. Premium (193 votes [16.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.61%

  3. Unsure (60 votes [5.16%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.16%

What class should it be?

  1. TD (356 votes [37.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.32%

  2. Medium (598 votes [62.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 62.68%

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The_Chieftain #41 Posted 01 January 2012 - 07:42 PM

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View PostKyphe, on 01 January 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

I was wondering if the Russians would try up gunning the Matilda 2 but I wondered if they would have tried mounting the conical turret from the T28/T35 with some up armoring which would let them mount the 76 and 85 mm

its about the same size

I'll add it to my to do list for when I'm back I'm the office Tuesday, but having seen all three tanks up close and personal, I don't believe them to be close to the same size. Tilly is quite a small tank, T-28 and T-35 are massive, which might make their turrets look small.

Kyphe #42 Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:03 PM

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I swapped out the hull and chassis to have a look in game, t28 turret is a bit bigger, but not as big as the A24 turret the brits successfully mounted on the tillda before abandoning the idea in favor of replacing the tanks all together.

Celestia #43 Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:06 PM

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Its an iconic modified tank used by the Brits.

If someone can come up with an upgrade tree path for it i'd love to see it as a regular tank, and not a premium tank.
But otherwise, the initial conversion to the 17pdr, allong with changed to the turret design were the only changes this tank ever saw.

Tuccy #44 Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:24 PM

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Possible upgrade path:
Lend-lease tech tree:
Tier III: Stuart I/II (were they fitted with UK radios?)
Tier IV: Stuart V/VI AND Lee/Grant
Tier V: Sherman V (VC Firefly top config). Starter turret with narrow 3" gun shield, top turret with wide 3.5" and 2" gun shield
Tier VI: Sherman I Hybrid/Composite

While for all intents and purposes I and V were same except for the engine, but then Tier VI Sherman I could atleast have later transmission cover (single piece cast) - from pics I saw, all Sherman V's had the older 2" 3-piece lower front whereas Shermans I of later version (esp. with Composite hull - front cast) had the single-piece tranny cover as well.

The light branch may be completely dropped out, with the LL branch starting with M3 Medium/Lee/Grant at Tier IV.


...just some idle thoughts.

EDIT: A problem comes to my mind now: Firefly had just 4 crewmen, right? Dunno if mounting a new weapon can reduce number of crew, otherwise the upgradable fireflies would have simply to live with "ahistorical" co-driver/radio operator (for game mechanics) in the hull ;)

Faren #45 Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:51 PM

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For me - premium. This is exported product, not owned to British. Just like M3 Stuard/Churchill for Russia, T-25 for Germany etc. And come on, Brits gotta lot of their own tanks.

Tuccy #46 Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:54 PM

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A compromise might be Premium Firefly in UK tree and adding 17pdr to US tree at tier VI, to represent those 80 fireflies taken by US army, thus giving Premium Firefly in "correct" nation and regular in "incorrect".

skillshin #47 Posted 01 January 2012 - 09:04 PM

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View PostTuccy, on 01 January 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

A compromise might be Premium Firefly in UK tree and adding 17pdr to US tree at tier VI, to represent those 80 fireflies taken by US army, thus giving Premium Firefly in "correct" nation and regular in "incorrect".

That's actually not a bad idea, but wouldnt it be more fair if the americans would get a premium LL firefly, and the british a normal one?(yes i know the the americans never got anything lend-lease)

Kyphe #48 Posted 01 January 2012 - 09:04 PM

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View PostTuccy, on 01 January 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

A compromise might be Premium Firefly in UK tree and adding 17pdr to US tree at tier VI, to represent those 80 fireflies taken by US army, thus giving Premium Firefly in "correct" nation and regular in "incorrect".

you mean mounting the 17pndr on the E8

which would ofc be awesome

Kyphe #49 Posted 01 January 2012 - 09:08 PM

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View Postskillshin, on 01 January 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

That's actually not a bad idea, but wouldnt it be more fair if the americans would get a premium LL firefly, and the british a normal one?(yes i know the the americans never got anything lend-lease)

well not only did the brits give a handful of firelfys to the US the us conducted their own evaluation of the 17pndr and could have taken it up instead of the 90mm.

as it was proposed and tested, it becomes a valid reason for inclusion in game given the loose rules.

The_Chieftain #50 Posted 01 January 2012 - 09:17 PM

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View PostKyphe, on 01 January 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

I swapped out the hull and chassis to have a look in game, t28 turret is a bit bigger, but not as big as the A24 turret the brits successfully mounted on the tillda before abandoning the idea in favor of replacing the tanks all together.

I'm not so sure about the 'successfully' bit. It was quite a codge given that the hull needed a surface adapter to fit the larger  57" turret onto the 54" hull. They may have done better to put Churchill's turret on as it's more or less the same size, but then you are walking into weight issues, although the 75mm as eventually mounted would be nice. But as you say, why not just put the production capability to entirely new tanks at that point?

Tuccy #51 Posted 01 January 2012 - 09:21 PM

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View PostKyphe, on 01 January 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

you mean mounting the 17pndr on the E8

which would ofc be awesome
Yea, I mean that. Apart from getting a 17pdr Sherman in normal tree, I think it would also help revive Easy 8 a bit, as currently it doesn't have that much to offer compared to M4A3E2.

Btw.: According to the British depot that did the conversion, btw, it was estimated that converting Wet Storage Shermans to Firefly would take 20% manhours less than with the original Shermans - probably due to ammo supply.

The_Chieftain #52 Posted 01 January 2012 - 09:36 PM

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View PostKyphe, on 01 January 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

well not only did the brits give a handful of firelfys to the US the us conducted their own evaluation of the 17pndr and could have taken it up instead of the 90mm.

The fireflies used in Italy do seem to have been just loaned from UK stocks, but the 81 built for the US were done to US specifications and thus not the same as the UK ones. The big external identifiers would be the American style sand shields and cupolas.

I'm putting an article up this week as it happens about the US field tests of the 17pr.

swellgrim #53 Posted 04 January 2012 - 10:00 PM

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I vote for regular about Firefly.
But i also want to see: Achilles M10
(in my option what is become premium and what not: when the tank got some modification like the brits made on sherman and wolverine, its ok when we can get them regulary)

oh and about sherman is american and cant be party other nation tech tree, Panzer 38(t) is a Czech tank originaly. Notable variations include the SdKfz 138 Marder III mobile anti-tank gun, the SdKfz 138/1 Grille mobile howitzer, and the Jagdpanzer 38(t) "Hetzer" tank destroyer.

Nathaniak #54 Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:06 PM

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View Postswellgrim, on 04 January 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

oh and about sherman is american and cant be party other nation tech tree, Panzer 38(t) is a Czech tank originaly. Notable variations include the SdKfz 138 Marder III mobile anti-tank gun, the SdKfz 138/1 Grille mobile howitzer, and the Jagdpanzer 38(t) "Hetzer" tank destroyer.

Indeed.

Listy #55 Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:14 PM

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View Postswellgrim, on 04 January 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

Notable variations include the SdKfz 138 Marder III mobile anti-tank gun, the SdKfz 138/1 Grille mobile howitzer, and the Jagdpanzer 38(t) "Hetzer" tank destroyer.

All of which were modified by the Germans.

_Knight_Commander_Pask_ #56 Posted 06 January 2012 - 04:53 PM

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Regarding a 'lend-lease' branch on the tech tree, I remember seeing a link to the Russian forum's Q&A thread asking about the British version of the M3 Lee. The guy answering the questions responded something along the lines of 'the native (American) turret won't be the top turret.' Now, I don't know whether he was on about an M3 Lee that would be in the British tree, or simply adding that turret on to the existing American version.

Unfortunately I can't seem to find the post with the link in it, otherwise I'd link it here, too.

swellgrim #57 Posted 07 January 2012 - 01:05 AM

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View PostListy, on 05 January 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

All of which were modified by the Germans.

yes, almost,but mostly just 10-35% of it, the engine and the ketle and lower body part never changed,just the upper part. (on pz 38(t) the germans just change the name only just like what they do the PzKpfw S35 739 (f) what is the french tank "Somua s35"  )

swellgrim #58 Posted 07 January 2012 - 01:30 AM

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View Post_Knight_Commander_Pask_, on 06 January 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Regarding a 'lend-lease' branch on the tech tree, I remember seeing a link to the Russian forum's Q&A thread asking about the British version of the M3 Lee. The guy answering the questions responded something along the lines of 'the native (American) turret won't be the top turret.' Now, I don't know whether he was on about an M3 Lee that would be in the British tree, or simply adding that turret on to the existing American version.

Unfortunately I can't seem to find the post with the link in it, otherwise I'd link it here, too.
I don't think they make another tank what is dont have much change about performance, but who knows.
"M3 Grant" and "M3 Lee" main difference is the britts made the upper turret lose that little machinegun turret and 1 people less needed to handle the tank (this way maked more space in it) + the main turret got little larger to fit a new and bigger radio in it (what is good in the desert)
(pictures)
M3 Lee
M3 Grant

_Knight_Commander_Pask_ #59 Posted 07 January 2012 - 04:18 PM

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View Postswellgrim, on 07 January 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

I don't think they make another tank what is dont have much change about performance, but who knows.
"M3 Grant" and "M3 Lee" main difference is the britts made the upper turret lose that little machinegun turret and 1 people less needed to handle the tank (this way maked more space in it) + the main turret got little larger to fit a new and bigger radio in it (what is good in the desert)
(pictures)
M3 Lee
M3 Grant

Derp, I forgot that they had seperate names.

Gigaton #60 Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:26 PM

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View Postswellgrim, on 04 January 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

oh and about sherman is american and cant be party other nation tech tree, Panzer 38(t) is a Czech tank originaly. Notable variations include the SdKfz 138 Marder III mobile anti-tank gun, the SdKfz 138/1 Grille mobile howitzer, and the Jagdpanzer 38(t) "Hetzer" tank destroyer.

You would be making a point with Panzer 35(t) but Panzer 38(t) (and variants) is bit of a moot one since the Czechs themselves didn't get around adopting it before German annexation. The real production run started after German occupation, to supply Wehrmacht.