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New supertest tank


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LIL_Veky #1 Posted 02 August 2019 - 08:29 PM

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Soo this is happening..

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Balc0ra #2 Posted 02 August 2019 - 08:43 PM

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Yeah did see that earlier. 3K base DPM and no roof cupola. So it can be nasty with the right MM. But... like the AT-15 it has low pen for a tier 8 TD. And the armor at the side and rear is even weaker than the AT-15A "that has the pre HD model layout still". Makes me wonder how the layout is at the front with no cupola. If the lower plate is butter or not. And how thick that flatter top plate is.

 

But most inc wheeled lights will have a field day with HE on that rear plate. As even high tier UK guns have 100+ HE pen.


Edited by Balc0ra, 02 August 2019 - 08:44 PM.


vasilinhorulezz #3 Posted 02 August 2019 - 08:44 PM

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It's not a tortoise, it's a ...

8126Jakobsson #4 Posted 02 August 2019 - 08:48 PM

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View Postvasilinhorulezz, on 02 August 2019 - 08:44 PM, said:

It's not a tortoise, it's a ...


...boring pos that one would have to pay to play? :child:



hasnainrakha57 #5 Posted 02 August 2019 - 10:32 PM

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I see nothing on the roof??? British tradition??

Balc0ra #6 Posted 02 August 2019 - 10:41 PM

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View Posthasnainrakha57, on 02 August 2019 - 10:32 PM, said:

I see nothing on the roof??? British tradition??

 

That's what makes me wonder what that lower plate will be etc. As if they will balance it that way or not. And the gun arch. If it will be as wide as the AT-15. As he can use that to max is armor more. If not... well. HEAT will love that tank.



r00barb #7 Posted 02 August 2019 - 11:27 PM

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I imagine the flat plates either side of the gun where the smoke launchers are mounted will be the equivalent of the cupola. Even if they're the full 228mm thick, most gold rounds of that tier will have a good chance to pen.

Jumping_Turtle #8 Posted 03 August 2019 - 12:02 AM

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View Postvasilinhorulezz, on 02 August 2019 - 08:44 PM, said:

It's not a tortoise, it's a ...


TURTLE !!!



MeetriX #9 Posted 03 August 2019 - 12:13 AM

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View PostJumping_Turtle, on 03 August 2019 - 12:02 AM, said:


TURTLE !!!

So it is a marine tank.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #10 Posted 03 August 2019 - 12:34 AM

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Some more details about the turtle...

 

DPM: 3129

Damage: 330

Penetration: 217/245mm

View range: 370m

Hit points: 1400

Armor: 228/101/76 mm
 

Camo

 

Stationary: 13.28%

Moving: 7.98%

 

Gun handling and accuracy

 

Dispersion: 0.33

Aim time: 1.63s

Gun traverse limits: 20°/20°

Gun depression/elevation: -10°/+20°

 

Mobility

 

Engine power: 800HP

Top speed: 20/10Km/h

Specific Power: 13.33HP/ton

Tank traverse: 23.99°/s

 

 

Stats

 

Comparison with other tier 8 TDs

 

@LIL_Veky  Feel free to add the stats to your post and i will edit them out later.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 03 August 2019 - 12:37 AM.


Balc0ra #11 Posted 03 August 2019 - 01:36 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 03 August 2019 - 12:34 AM, said:

Comparison with other tier 8 TDs

 

 

 

That pen gap tho. Even vs those that has DPM that's close to it. So makes me wonder even more how much balance they actually put into the armor. Any armor model up on any sites yet? Tho the gun traverse listed do answer one question I had. It's only 5 degrees less to each side vs the AT-15. So it can't make it's armor that effective, but still enough around a corner.


Edited by Balc0ra, 03 August 2019 - 01:39 AM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #12 Posted 03 August 2019 - 02:12 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 03 August 2019 - 04:36 AM, said:

That pen gap tho. Even vs those that has DPM that's close to it. So makes me wonder even more how much balance they actually put into the armor. Any armor model up on any sites yet? Tho the gun traverse listed do answer one question I had. It's only 5 degrees less to each side vs the AT-15. So it can't make it's armor that effective, but still enough around a corner.

 

This is what i think about the DPM vs. pen...

 

  • It has great DPM so that's balanced by lower pen.
  • It also has good accuracy and some armor so it can get close(er) to be able to hit and pen weak spots more easily.

 

Problem is, that's not how WOT works nowadays!

 

  • It's a tier 8 and the armor profile is questionable with those flat parts on the upper frontal glacis. Tier 9s and 10s will have absolutely no problem going through that like butter especially when it's also slow so frontal engagements are the norm.
  • Another thing that's questionable is the existence of weak spots on enemy tanks. Even at tier 8, something like the Defender or the VK 100 will give this thing a run for its money. Let alone a hull down tank or a Soviet turret.

 

This show the upper and lower boundaries of WG's balancing. There is balance but it isn't absolute, the margin for some tanks and classes is huge. I know it's still in the super test and all these stats are not final but the solution is very simple.

 

Either give it a smaller gun, 32-pdr for example, with better pen and keep the DPM high or use a higher tier gun, the 120mm L1A1, with better pen and lower DPM. Slow reload will make the exposure time shorter and maybe help preserve those 1400 hp longer.

 

About the armor profile, the only available information so far is the armor values (228/101/76 mm).


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 03 August 2019 - 02:17 AM.


Schepel #13 Posted 03 August 2019 - 02:40 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 03 August 2019 - 02:12 AM, said:

 

This is what i think about the DPM vs. pen...

 

  • It has great DPM so that's balanced by lower pen.
  • It also has good accuracy and some armor so it can get close(er) to be able to hit and pen weak spots more easily.

 

Problem is, that's not how WOT works nowadays!

 

  • It's a tier 8 and the armor profile is questionable with those flat parts on the upper frontal glacis. Tier 9s and 10s will have absolutely no problem going through that like butter especially when it's also slow so frontal engagements are the norm.
  • Another thing that's questionable is the existence of weak spots on enemy tanks. Even at tier 8, something like the Defender or the VK 100 will give this thing a run for its money. Let alone a hull down tank or a Soviet turret.

 

This show the upper and lower boundaries of WG's balancing. There is balance but it isn't absolute, the margin for some tanks and classes is huge. I know it's still in the super test and all these stats are not final but the solution is very simple.

 

Either give it a smaller gun, 32-pdr for example, with better pen and keep the DPM high or use a higher tier gun, the 120mm L1A1, with better pen and lower DPM. Slow reload will make the exposure time shorter and maybe help preserve those 1400 hp longer.

 

About the armor profile, the only available information so far is the armor values (228/101/76 mm).

 

This thing will work fine as is. You need to stop asking the question how it will fare in a 1 vs 1. Ask what it will do in concert with other tanks. Between perma tracking enemy tanks and demolishing tanks that face 'greater threats', tanks like this are part of what I like to call the close range support class. Not great on their own, unless you have the perfect corridor, but very useful in multiple tank brawls. The biggest problem playing this thing isn't going to be whether you can pen a defender but to get some damage done in quick games. T9/10 games aren't necessarily going to be fun, but that goes for just about any T8 tank that sacrifices speed for armour. 

 

My number one question is how it will fare against arty.



BeefCrtinBandit #14 Posted 03 August 2019 - 03:17 AM

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View PostMeetriX, on 03 August 2019 - 12:13 AM, said:

So it is a marine tank.

It's not made of crayons



XxKuzkina_MatxX #15 Posted 03 August 2019 - 03:25 AM

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View PostSchepel, on 03 August 2019 - 05:40 AM, said:

This thing will work fine as is.

 

Could be, the stat are not final and the actual tank's performance in battles isn't known yet although i doubt it will be good.

 

View PostSchepel, on 03 August 2019 - 05:40 AM, said:

You need to stop asking the question how it will fare in a 1 vs 1. Ask what it will do in concert with other tanks.

 

Actually in a 1 vs. 1 i think it'll fare better than in an average random team. I never looked at it that way or mentioned something like that in the post you're quoting.

 

View PostSchepel, on 03 August 2019 - 05:40 AM, said:

Between perma tracking enemy tanks and demolishing tanks that face 'greater threats', tanks like this are part of what I like to call the close range support class. Not great on their own, unless you have the perfect corridor, but very useful in multiple tank brawls.

 

Dependency on others and teamwork in random battles. Ok!

 

The amount of coordination which a team of 5 random players can achieve against BOTS can be sampled in the Homefront mode. This tank as a premium will be bought with real money and played in teams like this.

 

View PostSchepel, on 03 August 2019 - 05:40 AM, said:

The biggest problem playing this thing isn't going to be whether you can pen a defender but to get some damage done in quick games. T9/10 games aren't necessarily going to be fun, but that goes for just about any T8 tank that sacrifices speed for armour.

 

Doing damage in fast games isn't relevant to how good or bad the tank is. Any average or below average player can go hull down on one of the various bottlenecks on the maps and still do a decent amount of damage even in a defeat. With speed or armor you'd still need good pen especially in a tier 8 front line TD that should meet tier 9s and 10s very often.

 

I am talking about balance and you're actually the one talking about specific situations when this tank will work. In an ideal map with a good alert team and against specific targets, sure it'll do alright but how often is that the case?

 

The issue is how low the penetration can be with respect to other factors namely speed, alpha and armor? regardless of how it'll be used or against which targets. 245mm gold pen, although not final, is lower than the standard pen of most tier 8 TDs!


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 03 August 2019 - 03:32 AM.


Jumping_Turtle #16 Posted 03 August 2019 - 08:09 AM

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View PostMeetriX, on 03 August 2019 - 12:13 AM, said:

So it is a marine tank.

 

And of course not able to drown.



tajj7 #17 Posted 03 August 2019 - 08:15 AM

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Crap pen on both rounds, very slow, and whilst no cupola, looking likely that flat armour is going to be 228 with maybe a slight angle, so at best 235 effective? Meaning a lot of tier 8 standard guns will pen it with high pen rolls, many tier 8 TDs will pen it and of course most tier 10s, and premium rounds will butter it.

 

Probably leaving it's armour only really effective on reverse slopes using the gun depression and gun arc to maximise the angling.

 

Which then doesn't translate well to DPM and poor pen as using ridges is generally not close range combat.

 

Not sure how this thing will work but we'll see, it all probably hinge on that armour layout. 



NUKLEAR_SLUG #18 Posted 03 August 2019 - 09:33 AM

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Good or bad at least WG are giving a bit of love to the other nations.

splash_time #19 Posted 03 August 2019 - 10:21 AM

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View PostLIL_Veky, on 02 August 2019 - 08:29 PM, said:

Soo this is happening..

 

Aha, so the mini tortoise+badger mixture is coming, not bad, with 2970 base dpm, it can over match TS 5 & AT 15, but 235 frontal armor can still be panned by golds, and 330 damage each 6 sec? I think WG will absolutely nurf this numbers, let's say down to 300 or maybe 290.

Speed is OK for such iron piece, but the penetration of the golds in this tank is a bit weak for a TD, 217 and 245? It won't even pen an O Ho with APCR for example, they had to give it a bit better penetration for such slow one.



Dava_117 #20 Posted 03 August 2019 - 10:56 AM

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View Postsplash_time, on 03 August 2019 - 10:21 AM, said:

 

Aha, so the mini tortoise+badger mixture is coming, not bad, with 2970 base dpm, it can over match TS 5 & AT 15, but 235 frontal armor can still be panned by golds, and 330 damage each 6 sec? I think WG will absolutely nurf this numbers, let's say down to 300 or maybe 290.

Speed is OK for such iron piece, but the penetration of the golds in this tank is a bit weak for a TD, 217 and 245? It won't even pen an O Ho with APCR for example, they had to give it a bit better penetration for such slow one.

 

245 pen APCR are enoght for an O-Ho. I would be more worried about some tier 9 tanks. Something like a well angled ST-I, a Tortoise or a VK45.02B...






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