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Outdated tanks and rework in the "new" WOT meta

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TerrorTaskForce #1 Posted 06 August 2019 - 09:59 AM

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Hello fellow players.

 

As we all know, WOT is constantly changing.

New tanks and tanktrees are introduced, stats were changed, meta changed and so on.

 

Because of this a lot of things were left broken, unchanged and unbalanced. For example: There was a time when playing non-premium vehicles in tier VIII was fun. I really liked to play the JP II, Tiger II, T28 Prot, AMX 50 100 and so on. Premiums were for the grind, for credits and mostly inferior to techtree tanks. It´s totally fine that premiums were buffed, but there are some really overpowered ones like the Defender. Normal tier VIII dont stand a chance. The perks are STILL THE SAME as of the beginning of WOT. The sound is still abysmal. Most of the soundmods are way better than the sounds in game.

 

As i can mostly talk about tanks i have experience with, please let me know your thoughts and experience about this. Maybe you even have somethign i did not point out or a different opinion?

 

But first, here are some of my thoughts.

 

New tier X were added and the meta changed critically and A LOT of tanks just fell aboard the changetrain. There are more outdated tanks than "playable" ones. Yeah, WG is trying to change this but they are way too slow. Examples:

  • Type 5 with premium HE, why do we even have armor?
  • Obj 907 spammed out in nearly every campaign, making any toptier russian med completely useless, because it is, imo, absolutely OP
  • T22 med, a story of it´s own
  • IS4,... yeah this tank exists in the techtree, with a tier VII stockgun available
  • FOCH 155, OP once upon a time, now barely playable
  • BatArty 155, yep, same DPM as he other tier X artys, but that´s paperstats. Absolutely useless, no damage-output, splash nor stuntime anymore.
  • Jagdtiger has higher DPM and health than JPE100. Even the mobility is better. What is the point of the JPE 100 then? JT upper structure is nearly the same as on JPE100.
  • E100 is now only ok facing tier VIII. Worthless armor.

 

There are too many logical-gaps. For Example:

  • GWE100 used to have the hull armor of the E100 (which makes absolutely a ton of sense), it was nerfed because ppl were unable to shoot the upper structure. But it kept the same mobility. In the meantime the Conqueror GC was added, owning the hullarmor of the Conqueror. Really WG?
  • JPE 100 is lighter than E100, has same mobility
  • Obj 261 was the AP king with high rate of fire an limited ammo. The meta has changed drastically, but not the ammunitioncapacity.
  • TOG II is now the slowest tank in game. All of the other slow tanks were buffed, but not the TOG II. So it´s even more useless?
  • Mauerbrecher-> after adding so many very good and OP premiums, the abysmal Mauerbrecher was added. The absolut worst premium tank. It would´ve been good in like 2013. It can be penned frontally by tier III tanks. Superheavy? More like SUPERPINATA. Still not subject to change.
  • Why do i even get on Himmelsdorf as Arty? Excluding a handful of artys, this should not happen.

 

Also i want to mention some more things, like:

 

  • Events are ok, but longtime motivation drops drastically, making it way too grindy for okísh rewards.
  • The variety of tanks used ingame is very bad. Actually refers to forgotten tanks and rebalance

 

WOT is pretty much my favorite game, but the problems are getting more by advancing and improving the game. A lot was done right, but there is so much wrong... But how can we turn it around?

 

 


Edited by TerrorTaskForce, 06 August 2019 - 11:47 AM.


kubawt112 #2 Posted 06 August 2019 - 10:55 AM

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What would be the alternative to powercreep? I don't agree with the system of 'hard' powercreep, but I don't see this ship turning around.

 

(Nor do I agree with the idea of posting threads describing general issues, whilst containing no actual content related to solving or discussing it.)



If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #3 Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:18 AM

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Haven't seen any really good spotters and EBR players for a few days now which is a bit weird

 

Skilled players could well be moving elsewhere, there's a LOT of money becoming available in esports



Balc0ra #4 Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:36 AM

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We know there is a major rebalance coming at the end of the year. Much like we did see 18 months ago. As in one nation at the time on tier 8+. But the only tanks we know are said so far to be changed there is the Tiger II and E100. But they were marked for rebalance, not buffs. What they meant by that and what other tanks will be on that list remains to be seen. IS-4 has been on the table many times, even 18 months ago when we had the other changes and tech tree reworks. But WG don't know what to do with it and constantly canned the changes. But with the ST-II on test again, who knows.



TerrorTaskForce #5 Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:44 AM

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View Postkubawt112, on 06 August 2019 - 10:55 AM, said:

What would be the alternative to powercreep? I don't agree with the system of 'hard' powercreep, but I don't see this ship turning around.

 

(Nor do I agree with the idea of posting threads describing general issues, whilst containing no actual content related to solving or discussing it.)


Dear kubawt,

 

your highest tank is an IS at tier VII. Do you have any second accounts or some more experience than this? At the moment i am pretty sure you really don´t know what i´m talking about.

Your profile says "Might be more of an active poster than an active player - but it's not like that is against the rules.". Ofcourse it is not against the rules, but as it seems now, i can´t take your post that serious.

 

"please let me know your thoughts and experience about this. Maybe you even have somethign i did not point out or a different opinion?" -> As for my understanding, this seems like a basis for a discusision and for exchanging thoughts and experience.

 

Correct me if i´m wrong.

 

Edit: I need to excuse myself, i guess you mentioned it because i put some offtopic stuff in it. Corrected it in my original post.


Edited by TerrorTaskForce, 06 August 2019 - 11:48 AM.


fwhaatpiraat #6 Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:46 AM

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View Postkubawt112, on 06 August 2019 - 10:55 AM, said:

What would be the alternative to powercreep? I don't agree with the system of 'hard' powercreep, but I don't see this ship turning around.

 

(Nor do I agree with the idea of posting threads describing general issues, whilst containing no actual content related to solving or discussing it.)


I do think there is a solution to this and we all know it. Stop giving that much money to WG.

 

The OP has just 36 premium tier 8 tanks. Might be part of the problem, OP, isn't it? Including many vehicles that are part of the problem you describe, like the Defender, Patriot, Skorpion and Liberté. But also more recent ones (that also fit nicely in the power creep) like the WZ-120-FG-T, Progetto or 50TP. And let me guess, you also run a premium account most of the time, OP? It seems you also have the Pz 5/4 that recently got on sale for the first time since 2011 or so. And you also have the Chrysler K, such a well designed vehicle for this game. You are clearly showing to WG that you are 100% fine with the policies and sales they have, despite the flaws that many have pointed out in the past.

 

It's stupid and hypocrite to point out what's wrong with the game, while being (partly) the cause of it.



Baldrickk #7 Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:53 AM

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View Postkubawt112, on 06 August 2019 - 10:55 AM, said:

What would be the alternative to powercreep? I don't agree with the system of 'hard' powercreep, but I don't see this ship turning around.

 

(Nor do I agree with the idea of posting threads describing general issues, whilst containing no actual content related to solving or discussing it.)

Actual balancing making each line unique and fun?

Much more effort though and WG are never going to do it...



TerrorTaskForce #8 Posted 06 August 2019 - 12:09 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 06 August 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:


I do think there is a solution to this and we all know it. Stop giving that much money to WG.

 

The OP has just 36 premium tier 8 tanks. Might be part of the problem, OP, isn't it? Including many vehicles that are part of the problem you describe, like the Defender, Patriot, Skorpion and Liberté. But also more recent ones (that also fit nicely in the power creep) like the WZ-120-FG-T, Progetto or 50TP. And let me guess, you also run a premium account most of the time, OP? It seems you also have the Pz 5/4 that recently got on sale for the first time since 2011 or so. And you also have the Chrysler K, such a well designed vehicle for this game. You are clearly showing to WG that you are 100% fine with the policies and sales they have, despite the flaws that many have pointed out in the past.

 

It's stupid and hypocrite to point out what's wrong with the game, while being (partly) the cause of it.

 

Ofcourse i buy premium tanks. But i stopped at a certain point, because most of the time they aren´t worth it. The outrage for the Crysler NOW is pretty pointless. Im not sure if it was nerfed but atm it is not OP. Defender? Yes i have it and fought against it. Pretty OP. Some tanks are out of the christmas boxes. So?

 

But if you actually check my tanks, why don´t you mention that i really don´t play these tanks a lot.

 

Because i actually own some of the tanks is a problem for you? I think that actually puts me into a better position to refer to the meta, unbalance and everything else. I´ve spent a lot of money on this game, because i really like it. I play this game, as you should know, since 2012. So it may be possible that i use premium stuff. If i like a game and it is f2p i am willing to spend money on it. If i play it a lot and spend a lot of time in it, i am willing to spend even more money. But if i spend money on something, does it also meaan i accept everything and like everything about it?

 

 



Solstad1069 #9 Posted 06 August 2019 - 12:18 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 06 August 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:


I do think there is a solution to this and we all know it. Stop giving that much money to WG.

 

 

Last night i spotted a 39% player with 6K battles and pretty much every single premium tank ever sold.
He had the tier 10 polish tank that had been free xp all the way.
 

He could really need some "rigging" from WG :P, from the money he spent he deserved it.



kubawt112 #10 Posted 06 August 2019 - 12:27 PM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 06 August 2019 - 11:53 AM, said:

Actual balancing making each line unique and fun?

Much more effort though and WG are never going to do it...

 

Much more effort, much more risk, and currently in way too deep for it to be viable -not to mention that WG's idea of "unique and fun" seems to either be EBRs, which seems to be a controversial addition, or the Swedish/Italian MTs - which may not feel particularly rewarding to the vast majority of players.

 

View PostTerrorTaskForce, on 06 August 2019 - 11:44 AM, said:


Dear kubawt,

 

your highest tank is an IS at tier VII. Do you have any second accounts or some more experience than this? At the moment i am pretty sure you really don´t know what i´m talking about.

Your profile says "Might be more of an active poster than an active player - but it's not like that is against the rules.". Ofcourse it is not against the rules, but as it seems now, i can´t take your post that serious.

 

"please let me know your thoughts and experience about this. Maybe you even have somethign i did not point out or a different opinion?" -> As for my understanding, this seems like a basis for a discusision and for exchanging thoughts and experience.

 

Correct me if i´m wrong.

 

Edit: I need to excuse myself, i guess you mentioned it because i put some offtopic stuff in it. Corrected it in my original post.

 

I reckon a large part of a 'constructive' thread is to provide some of your opinions, which is what is lacking.

 

Anyway, I don't really see how it's relevant that I have, seemingly, limited experience in the game. I'm all for "stat-shaming" people if they give advice that is obviously wrong, and demonstrably not working out for them, but merely observing the "business end" (wink-wink) of WoT wouldn't really depend on battle count, would it? As fwhaatpiraat helpfully points out, you may not yourself be in a position to understand why we have the above issues. I guess that in itself makes this a more interesting thread.

While players grind or buy new tanks because they want to, there's also a degree of "having to" do it because playing a poor tank requires a lot more skill and effort (beyond the point where you're playing a game for fun, frankly).

Ideally, there's be more of a "feature creep" rather than a "balancing creep". Some lines in WoT feel that way. I get the impression that the new Swedish mediums aren't a big issue for balance, nor were the Italian autoreloaders.

Still, if they're fun or interesting, they'll be worth it for some. Question is how many are interested in features and variety rather than just becoming stronger. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if the former are far fewer than the latter - owing to a general trend of less tactical thinking and more linear brawling and static positioning (where there's definitely less opportunity to use certain 'features' that don't involve high damage guns or strong armour). In that case, it'd be really hard to actually argue for a change to the relative lack of development.

 

It's tempting to imagine a separate game mode with different "rules" for map design, weakspots, premium ammo and whatnot, but it'd likely be wildly unpopular and make the 'normal' random battles worse.

 

(To Wargaming's credit, they're doing remarkably well even if they're not doing things "right".)

11:30 Added after 3 minute

View PostSolstad1069, on 06 August 2019 - 12:18 PM, said:

 

Last night i spotted a 39% player with 6K battles and pretty much every single premium tank ever sold.
He had the tier 10 polish tank that had been free xp all the way.
 

He could really need some "rigging" from WG :P, from the money he spent he deserved it.

 

Might've been a moderator, or something to that effect - it's my understanding that their reward for volunteering is in-game goodies. That may mean basically all of them - sometimes even tanks that aren't readily available. One in particular registered after the Type 59 was in the Christmas boxes, yet still has one. Nothing bad about it, obviously, but it would explain at least some of these accounts.



fwhaatpiraat #11 Posted 06 August 2019 - 12:46 PM

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View PostTerrorTaskForce, on 06 August 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

 

Ofcourse i buy premium tanks. But i stopped at a certain point, because most of the time they aren´t worth it. The outrage for the Crysler NOW is pretty pointless. Im not sure if it was nerfed but atm it is not OP. Defender? Yes i have it and fought against it. Pretty OP. Some tanks are out of the christmas boxes. So?

 

But if you actually check my tanks, why don´t you mention that i really don´t play these tanks a lot.

 

Because i actually own some of the tanks is a problem for you? I think that actually puts me into a better position to refer to the meta, unbalance and everything else. I´ve spent a lot of money on this game, because i really like it. I play this game, as you should know, since 2012. So it may be possible that i use premium stuff. If i like a game and it is f2p i am willing to spend money on it. If i play it a lot and spend a lot of time in it, i am willing to spend even more money. But if i spend money on something, does it also meaan i accept everything and like everything about it?

 

 

If you want to spend money on the game, go ahead. But if you have thát many premium tanks (or maintain a premium account all year long, or buy the gambling fancy pants loot boxes), don't expect WG to change their marketing strategy at all. Also, you stopped at a certain point? Yesterday? Last week? The presence of tanks like the LT-432, 50tp, KJP105 show that you didn't stop that long ago funding the moon base. And again, up to you and 100% fine for me, seems really logical to me that you spend money to something you enjoy. But again, your wallet is basically the only means of communication between you and WG. I think you know just as well as I do, that the EU forums have close to 0 influence on the marketing strategy of the game. Ofcourse as a paying customer you shouldn't accept everything a company does, but it is really naive to think that WG will stop fishing after such nice whales (or dolphins), if you fund them so well.

 

Not playing the tanks after purchasing them? That must be a wet dream for WG. That's really easy cash and I can't blame WG for collecting it. Also, "puts me into a better position to refer to the meta, unbalance and everything else": this basically is the problem. Being abled to deal with the problem, is being part of the problem.

 



Solstad1069 #12 Posted 06 August 2019 - 12:56 PM

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View Post

Might've been a moderator, or something to that effect - it's my understanding that their reward for volunteering is in-game goodies. That may mean basically all of them - sometimes even tanks that aren't readily available. One in particular registered after the Type 59 was in the Christmas boxes, yet still has one. Nothing bad about it, obviously, but it would explain at least some of these accounts.

 

Best one was 128 battles in Skorpion G with average of 13 WN8, wow please give this guy some rigging.



Aries1204 #13 Posted 06 August 2019 - 01:05 PM

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View PostTerrorTaskForce, on 06 August 2019 - 08:59 AM, said:

Hello fellow players.

 

As we all know, WOT is constantly changing.

New tanks and tanktrees are introduced, stats were changed, meta changed and so on.

 

Because of this a lot of things were left broken, unchanged and unbalanced. For example: There was a time when playing non-premium vehicles in tier VIII was fun. I really liked to play the JP II, Tiger II, T28 Prot, AMX 50 100 and so on. Premiums were for the grind, for credits and mostly inferior to techtree tanks. It´s totally fine that premiums were buffed, but there are some really overpowered ones like the Defender. Normal tier VIII dont stand a chance. The perks are STILL THE SAME as of the beginning of WOT. The sound is still abysmal. Most of the soundmods are way better than the sounds in game.

 

As i can mostly talk about tanks i have experience with, please let me know your thoughts and experience about this. Maybe you even have somethign i did not point out or a different opinion?

 

But first, here are some of my thoughts.

 

New tier X were added and the meta changed critically and A LOT of tanks just fell aboard the changetrain. There are more outdated tanks than "playable" ones. Yeah, WG is trying to change this but they are way too slow. Examples:

  • Type 5 with premium HE, why do we even have armor?
  • Obj 907 spammed out in nearly every campaign, making any toptier russian med completely useless, because it is, imo, absolutely OP
  • T22 med, a story of it´s own
  • IS4,... yeah this tank exists in the techtree, with a tier VII stockgun available
  • FOCH 155, OP once upon a time, now barely playable
  • BatArty 155, yep, same DPM as he other tier X artys, but that´s paperstats. Absolutely useless, no damage-output, splash nor stuntime anymore.
  • Jagdtiger has higher DPM and health than JPE100. Even the mobility is better. What is the point of the JPE 100 then? JT upper structure is nearly the same as on JPE100.
  • E100 is now only ok facing tier VIII. Worthless armor.

 

There are too many logical-gaps. For Example:

  • GWE100 used to have the hull armor of the E100 (which makes absolutely a ton of sense), it was nerfed because ppl were unable to shoot the upper structure. But it kept the same mobility. In the meantime the Conqueror GC was added, owning the hullarmor of the Conqueror. Really WG?
  • JPE 100 is lighter than E100, has same mobility
  • Obj 261 was the AP king with high rate of fire an limited ammo. The meta has changed drastically, but not the ammunitioncapacity.
  • TOG II is now the slowest tank in game. All of the other slow tanks were buffed, but not the TOG II. So it´s even more useless?
  • Mauerbrecher-> after adding so many very good and OP premiums, the abysmal Mauerbrecher was added. The absolut worst premium tank. It would´ve been good in like 2013. It can be penned frontally by tier III tanks. Superheavy? More like SUPERPINATA. Still not subject to change.
  • Why do i even get on Himmelsdorf as Arty? Excluding a handful of artys, this should not happen.

 

Also i want to mention some more things, like:

 

  • Events are ok, but longtime motivation drops drastically, making it way too grindy for okísh rewards.
  • The variety of tanks used ingame is very bad. Actually refers to forgotten tanks and rebalance

 

WOT is pretty much my favorite game, but the problems are getting more by advancing and improving the game. A lot was done right, but there is so much wrong... But how can we turn it around?

 

 


Yep, and who would buy their new Soviet beasts if they make your old prems work again? Get real....



Baldrickk #14 Posted 06 August 2019 - 03:20 PM

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View Postkubawt112, on 06 August 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

 

Much more effort, much more risk, and currently in way too deep for it to be viable -not to mention that WG's idea of "unique and fun" seems to either be EBRs, which seems to be a controversial addition, or the Swedish/Italian MTs - which may not feel particularly rewarding to the vast majority of players.

Yeah, which is why it isn't going to happen :(






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