Jump to content


Friendly fire - a necessary evil?

gameplay quality friendly

  • Please log in to reply
59 replies to this topic

Havenless #1 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:10 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 514 battles
  • 468
  • [-UM] -UM
  • Member since:
    12-18-2014

Greetings,

 

As we know, Wargaming decided to remove so-called 'friendly fire' from the game. I guess we can agree that the reason was justified, in that this game is populated by people who, well, don't exactly fit the qualification for 'friendly'.

 

Of course, I assume that Wargaming have their reasons to remove 'friendly fire', and won't change their minds (in particular not from some forum topic). because they've thought this one through.

I do think it's still worthwhile discussing what effects it can have on the game experience, even if it's likely not something that anyone actually liked - in and by itself.

 

Judging from the forums, there's a lot of abuse going on. However, my impression is that there isn't. Most people I know are more frustrated about the players and their lack of abiity to play the game, and sometimes being pushed by friendly tanks.

Hence, I get the feeling that FF isn't actually that much of a problem, outside of mere accidents (which I can't say are a major problem either).

Maybe it's because I don't know many who play a certain class, or whatever, so it remains circumstantial evidence. I can personally remember once or twice where it was used as revenge for something meaningless, and hardly that many accidents. Even those accidents were hardly rage-inducing - though I might well be a calmer fella than many others - from experience many players take WoT perhaps a little more seriously than they should, reacting as if I tripped them on the street if I were to (hypotethically) shoot them by mistake.

 

A few things comes to mind as being potential reasons for why FF was a 'good' thing.

First off, I can imagine immersion being a small part of it. Not so much for the 'realism' aspect as much as how you'd "expect" the game to behave.

 

Second, it's obvious that removing friendly fire lowers the skill requirement, by removing a large part of risk assessment. One example would be whether or not to take a long-range shot onto a brawling corner where the enemy is pushing. Accuracy is seldom quite good enough for someone to hit a specific tank at a few hundred meters. I reckon artillery will be rather interesting now, considering they can do danger close shots without any real consequence, in particular if they get the last shot onto an enemy tank dueling the enemy.

 

Third, it may make blockers more problematic. There are not a lot of 'proper' paper tanks in WoT, but I imagine that ramming a M56, RHM-B. or a light tank out of position will now be without any risk of getting 'blue' (it would probably take some consistent effort to turn 'blue' from ramming alone, but it sure can happen). Removing FF will in turn remove the possibility of, well, getting an easy revenge shot (which I don't condone, but it's known to be a situation where the rammer/pusher may turn blue first if he shoots back again).

 

Good things, well, there are the obvious ones. Less things that may go wrong (like being whapped twice by a TD because you "took his bush" without any consequences for him), and there won't be more splash from arty - though I believe I read that the 'stun' effect will actually be treated properly now, unlike before. Remains to be seen how well that'll end up working out, but it's of course a good thing.

 

I reckon time will tell if it is something we'll end up missing. It's probably not - but it seems more like a token change that underwent considerate deliberation before being implemented rather than something that will solve the "toxicity" issues. Kind of like removing global chat, frankly - which now means that my team gets to call me 'bot', 'haker', 'kid' and other incredibly offensive curse words.

 

Feel free to post what you think, why I'm wrong, and why my stats makes my mere opinion on this irrelevant - all part of a constructive topic in the Gameplay forum (right?).



Steeleye_Spam #2 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:17 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 33646 battles
  • 353
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    08-31-2014
I am one that will miss FF and I think its removal diminishes the game. It entirely is dumbing down the game to be able to fire into a congested area with no risk to your team, or to try to hit a small area of enemy tank showing with one of yours in front. And as you say, now being able to do arty strikes at face-hugging tanks is in no sense going to add to gameplay enjoyment. Its removing an important part of the gameplay for no good reason. I probably got griefer FF once every thousand battles. I probably got accidental fire once every hundred. It wasn't a problem.

7thSyndicate #3 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:21 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 46843 battles
  • 680
  • Member since:
    10-09-2012
It was big part of RNG, but since wg cant fix anything lets remove and its all good. Every patch gets more and more disappointing

3W1T4NK_ll_KN4T1W3 #4 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:23 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 32002 battles
  • 1,210
  • [TRVST] TRVST
  • Member since:
    09-23-2012
team dmg was a big problem. get over it

Steeleye_Spam #5 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:26 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 33646 battles
  • 353
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    08-31-2014

View Post3W1T4NK_ll_KN4T1W3, on 07 August 2019 - 01:23 PM, said:

team dmg was a big problem. get over it

thank you for your insightful comment.



3W1T4NK_ll_KN4T1W3 #6 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:28 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 32002 battles
  • 1,210
  • [TRVST] TRVST
  • Member since:
    09-23-2012
i lost more than one battle cause stupid teammates cant aim

Havenless #7 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:30 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 514 battles
  • 468
  • [-UM] -UM
  • Member since:
    12-18-2014

View Post3W1T4NK_ll_KN4T1W3, on 07 August 2019 - 03:23 PM, said:

team dmg was a big problem. get over it

 

It's hard to get some proper numbers on how much of an effect it had on gameplay. My impression is that it's not, and that most of the people I play with don't find it a notable nuisance, either.

 

I'd be really interested to hear when you tend to experience it. Is it mostly at <T6? Is it in certain situations? Are you doing something that may invite people to give you one up the poop chute? I'm honestly curious - this is one of the things we can "never" figure out, because those who claim it is a problem can't convince anyone but themselves why.



sniper_pixie #8 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:30 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 58032 battles
  • 274
  • Member since:
    12-15-2011
On the one hand, it was satisfying to show my disgust with a teammate by damaging him, on the other, I can now pour the fire into him without any consequences.

TheNightFox #9 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:30 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 9003 battles
  • 161
  • Member since:
    12-27-2014

No. Only assholes miss it. You can write a wall of text, for the kind of people that do team damage intentionally, there is only one adjective.

 

People doing all kinds of mischief today instead of team damage are just frustrated assholes trying to vent. I bask in their discomfort.


Edited by TheNightFox, 07 August 2019 - 01:34 PM.


3W1T4NK_ll_KN4T1W3 #10 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:35 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 32002 battles
  • 1,210
  • [TRVST] TRVST
  • Member since:
    09-23-2012
either i blame someone for doing stupid things and get shoot for that reason, or they decide to shoot me cause i am killing an enemy before they can. u get the the point? teamdmg was stupid

Edited by 3W1T4NK_ll_KN4T1W3, 07 August 2019 - 01:35 PM.


Flicka #11 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:36 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 23094 battles
  • 131
  • [CELL] CELL
  • Member since:
    10-25-2011

I do agree that team damage is something that should have remained in the game, if wg wanted to remove it for toxicity they could have just implemented what an addon does much better, safe shot or something. Where you just cant shoot at a friendly target.

 

But mostly what I am wondering is how in the hell did you get that % in your JGDTiger...that took some serious effort or voodoo.



3W1T4NK_ll_KN4T1W3 #12 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:37 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 32002 battles
  • 1,210
  • [TRVST] TRVST
  • Member since:
    09-23-2012
sometimes i just go in to flank or bully enemies and get hit by arty tds or whatever cant aim properly

7thSyndicate #13 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:39 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 46843 battles
  • 680
  • Member since:
    10-09-2012

View Post3W1T4NK_ll_KN4T1W3, on 07 August 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

sometimes i just go in to flank or bully enemies and get hit by arty tds or whatever cant aim properly

 

yeah and thats called RNG



SovietBias #14 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:40 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 37792 battles
  • 1,405
  • Member since:
    06-10-2013
This change surely was made with the test server in mind, given the usual teamkilling between US, RU and EU players.

3W1T4NK_ll_KN4T1W3 #15 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:42 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 32002 battles
  • 1,210
  • [TRVST] TRVST
  • Member since:
    09-23-2012

View Post7thSyndicate, on 07 August 2019 - 12:39 PM, said:

 

yeah and thats called RNG

wtf, why should that be called rng when teammates cant aim their shots. i also dont shoot when i can hit a teammate. stupid to call that rng



Havenless #16 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:42 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 514 battles
  • 468
  • [-UM] -UM
  • Member since:
    12-18-2014

View PostFlicka, on 07 August 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

I do agree that team damage is something that should have remained in the game, if wg wanted to remove it for toxicity they could have just implemented what an addon does much better, safe shot or something. Where you just cant shoot at a friendly target.

 

But mostly what I am wondering is how in the hell did you get that % in your JGDTiger...that took some serious effort or voodoo.

 

Safe shot is rather easy to override, though, and wouldn't prevent shooting unless you're aiming directly at the target.

 

As for my winrate, I bought the wrong tank and get a lot of bad teams. Trying my best to learn how to play it, now that it is buffed, but it ain't easy. Crew's still not that good. Blame Wargaming for essentially distributing codes for what was even back then a sorta-crappy tank, and not giving any good crew with it. I mean - who can say no when you get a €35 tank thrown after you for buying a CPU, or whatever? :D

 

View PostSovietBias, on 07 August 2019 - 03:40 PM, said:

This change surely was made with the test server in mind, given the usual teamkilling between US, RU and EU players.


Ooh, the plot thickens - though does it really matter when the test server is mostly to detect bugs, not interpret data to actually balance the game?


Edited by Havenless, 07 August 2019 - 01:43 PM.


7thSyndicate #17 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:49 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 46843 battles
  • 680
  • Member since:
    10-09-2012

View Post3W1T4NK_ll_KN4T1W3, on 07 August 2019 - 12:42 PM, said:

wtf, why should that be called rng when teammates cant aim their shots. i also dont shoot when i can hit a teammate. stupid to call that rng

 

So, your arty team mate shot the tank ur fighting, but it has dispersion and hit you.. if thats not rng maybe its indeed your team mate trying to kill you.


Edited by 7thSyndicate, 07 August 2019 - 01:49 PM.


3W1T4NK_ll_KN4T1W3 #18 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:52 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 32002 battles
  • 1,210
  • [TRVST] TRVST
  • Member since:
    09-23-2012

View Post7thSyndicate, on 07 August 2019 - 12:49 PM, said:

 

So, your arty team mate shot the tank ur fighting, but it has dispersion and hit you.. if thats not rng maybe its indeed your team mate trying to kill you.

stop being stupid or trying to troll me



Homer_J #19 Posted 07 August 2019 - 01:58 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 31767 battles
  • 34,915
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostHavenless, on 07 August 2019 - 01:10 PM, said:

I guess we can agree that the reason was justified,

 

Nope.

 

They just needed to tighten up the thresholds and get rid of the blue status so people couldn't abuse the system so easily.



TungstenHitman #20 Posted 07 August 2019 - 02:02 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 29719 battles
  • 5,509
  • Member since:
    08-28-2016

I felt it only needed to be reduced in % to a much fairer value so that some raging hot head would get himself banned long before he killed you and so that nobody, regardless of the tier, can 1 shot TK. That wouldn't have stopped some cheeky rager shooting a teammate on very low hp but it certainly would reduce the effects of stupid team damage where a person does it on purpose. What exact percentage that would be I don't know, 50, 70... 80% reduction in friendly fire I don't know but I would have like it to stay to keep the game with some level of consequences and consideration to aim and if necessary, turn down a shot for fear of hitting a teammate. Without it, there are no consequences for those tight calls where you have a risky opportunity to save a teammate brawling with another tank in which you might either save him or actually kill him before the enemy tank that has him on a one shot of hp does!! I think that added a certain spice and less dumb dumb shirt drooling no consequences and auto-aim or just blast away into packs of tanks, friendly and foe alike, with no risk and can just keep popping shots into targets you can just see a few pixels of that's mostly blocked by your teammate with no risk at all since you know it doesn't matter if you hit your teammate.  

 

I will 100% very much appreciate the crashing FF damage removal as I tend to play papery tanks and found that so forking annoying to bleed away precious hp for just nudging off a heavy tank or something like that, and as we all know, we've all had battles in which we were reduced early to 12 hp at the very start of the battle when shot by an enemy tank, and that's all that was needed to go on and have the most epic battle with just that 12 hp lol, so I'm delighted I will now no longer lose that sort of hp at the start of the usual spawn chaos where tanks are trying to pass each other and crashing etc. I also won't miss when I get shot in the back of the head "accidentally" and I won't miss when some rager shoots me but again, like I said, I think that could have been addressed with a percentage reduction rather than removing FF entirely. Let the idiot get banned, he'll do far less damage but without FF, he can just shoot spam you for the entire battle and enjoy himself which brings me to my next point. 

 

Also I would have concerns about trolling now. I'm not sure how it works yet, but if its anything like FL or RB etc, there is now no reason a player who is either a troll or just a moron, can't spam shoot you for the entire battle because you are not playing the way he wants you to play your tank or is just an a-hole. You know how annoying map pinging is? when a player just pings the map over and over and over? Well, at least we can blacklist and effectively mute that player during the battle, so it ends, but if it's like other non-FF game modes, the you don't have that option to do anything about it and will just experience a battle of being shot spammed by an idiot. 







Also tagged with gameplay, quality, friendly

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users